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Feather Crystal

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    Feather Crystal

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  1. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Cold does have a smell. I remember it well as a child. Its sort of stale smelling, but it clings to peoples clothing after they've been outside for awhile. While he was Lord Commander, Bloodraven took a group of men on a ranging and then never returned to the Wall...just like Jeor Mormont. And just like some of Mormont's men became wights - I'm looking at you, Small Paul - so too could have Bloodraven's detachment. That he's in the cave and there are wights just outside the cave - we cannot rule out the possibility that these wights could be men from that lost detachment. Bloodraven and Coldhands may have made it to the safety of the cave, or were dragged inside.
  2. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I would agree that Coldhands isn't being "consumed", but I do question the manner of his resurrection. It could've been fire. We really don't know, because he just popped up in the story with no back history. Now that he's in the north the cold would "preserve" him just as it preserved Aemon Targaryen, who I might point out is technically on the "fire-side" . Once Aemon left the Wall with Sam he (fairly) quickly succumbed and died. He was very old, but the cold seems to be credited with preserving him to such an old age. As for Coldhands being one of Bloodraven's men...this is an interesting theory, and not without evidence. When Aemon went to the Wall Bloodraven was among 200 men and prisoners sent as an escort. The wiki states many of the prisoners were of the Raven's Teeth, and the World Book states that Bloodraven went missing while out on a ranging.
  3. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    IMO Craster's sons are a red herring. Oh, he's definitely leaving them to die of exposure, and the bodies consumed by scavengers....maybe even Children of the Forest - they would be meat after they're dead after all, and there are tiny skulls and bones in the caves...but I digress. GRRM wants us to think Craster's sons are the sacrifice to create white walkers, but I think it's a red herring...we've talked about Craster's kippers before. Snowfyre presented a pretty good argument for this here. I think we're close to the same page on this topic, just looking at it slightly different. Beric's consuming is "noble" in that he wants to continue King Robert's justice. After seven resurrections he passes the "gift" onto Catelyn, who's consuming is "ignoble", because all she desires is revenge. Coldhands' preserving is "noble" in that his actions are dictated by the desire to preserve the lives of "good" humans, but is willing to kill "bad" humans. He seems to be a parallel to Beric, who is also motivated to do "good". The pattern then implies that Jon's preserving motivations will be "ignoble" and fueled to be "bad" like Lady Stoneheart. Gone will be the voice of duty, and he will be more inclined to fulfill selfish desires. Interesting observation. Theoretically there would be less of him to resurrect.
  4. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I get the “consumed” analogy of Beric’s compulsion to enforce King Robert’s justice, and Lady Stoneheart’s burning desire for revenge, but weren’t Coldhand’s actions against the “bad” Watchmen a desire for justice like Beric’s? I do acknowledge that Coldhands preserved lives by helping Sam, Gilly, Bran, Hodor, Meera, and Jojen, but in all three undead characters I was expecting the consuming and preserving to be manifested upon them physically. Your definition of consuming and preserving may not bode well for Jon if Coldhands and Beric are the “noble” examples leaving Lady Stoneheart as Jon’s pairing parallel. Jon’s last thoughts were to rescue his sister and remove the current Lord of Winterfell. Who knows what lengths he’ll go to to preserve the life of his sister.
  5. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Please elaborate what evidence of "consuming" Beric and Catelyn have that Coldhands does not? And what evidence demonstrates that Coldhands is Ice?
  6. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I want to dig more into Coldhands for the moment. I'm going to reexamine what I proposed regarding the "icy kiss", and then propose a different explanation for how he came to be. Neither Beric's nor Catelyn's eye-color changed after resurrection by fiery kiss, so why should we expect that an icy kiss would change eye color? Coldhands is not the same thing as a wight. That much is singularly clear. Its my understanding that particular, blue-lighted eyes are found in wights and white walkers, and that the icy "breath" of the cold wind raises wights. However, theoretically the icy kiss that I was proposing to make a "Coldhands" would be a different kind of breath, and I would expect the mechanics of it to be similar to how Thoros gave the "good god's own kiss" and breathed fire down into Beric's lungs. I posit that "ice" may have been blown down into Coldhand's lungs in order to resurrect him. I don’t know if that is the process, but if it is and you also consider the fact that Beric made Lady Stoneheart, then could the possibility exist that Coldhands can make another "Coldhands"? The obsidian-blade-to-the heart method employed by the mummer's version seems contradictory to what we know dragonglass can do. Sam used his blade to stab a white walker and it dissolved into a fine mist, breaking the spell. Can a substance that is used to break a spell also be used to create one? I got the sense that the mummer's show was trying to condense complicated book details into a process that looks simple to the viewer. Both Beric and Catelyn were dead prior to receiving the fiery kiss, but the fiery kiss reanimated them and made them "undead". According to the mummer's version a living human is stabbed in the heart during the process to become a white walker. Whether this will be the way GRRM explains it in the books remains to be seen. Are white wakers the opposite of undead? Or specifically, is becoming a white walker a way for the living to transform into a "different sort of life"? What we really don't know for sure is how Coldhands was made and why he's north of the Wall. His physical condition seems to be exactly like Beric and Catelyn. He's undead, but his body still shows evidence of how he died. Should we then conclude that he must have been raised by fire?
  7. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I was going off on the fact that Beric did the resurrecting of Catelyn by way of the fiery kiss. If it’s possible to make it happen without the help of a priest or priestess, then perhaps Coldhands has the ability to resuscitate via an icy CPR kiss - even though I don’t think he’ll get the opportunity.
  8. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    While I easily see the parallel between Beric and Coldhands, I haven't any idea how Coldhands would get his hands on a dead Jon, especially since the Watch has taken to burning the dead. With all the commotion at the Wall, would anyone think or want to drag Jon's dying or dead body to an interior room within the Wall? Coldhands cannot pass the Wall nor (presumably) enter and walk within its wormways, so how would Jon be raised? To me it makes more sense for Val to be revealed as an ice priestess and the inverted parallel to Melisandre. Melisandre offered Jon her help so perhaps its her people that drag is body off and then bring Val to him?
  9. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 208 Winter is Coming

    Sorry. I was just playing around. It’s not from Lost. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/16/upshot/audio-clip-yanny-laurel-debate.html
  10. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 208 Winter is Coming

    Did you hear Yanny or Laurel?
  11. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 208 Winter is Coming

    Circling back to the original OP question about "winter is coming" and how we think the story will be resolved. I agree with some others that the Wall will come down some how, but I think it will blow away and it'll take years...perhaps even a generation I'm not sure how GRRM would even handle that without having to fast forward to a future where, as BC puts it "the Scooby Gang" are now in their 40's-50's. If there is to be a return to balance, then the magic contained in the Wall needs to be released and winter needs to take its course. I don't think its too far fetched to say it ends when spring returns. Allowing winter to run its course includes having it move all the way south past Kings Landing and down to Oldtown. Death and destruction will follow, and not many will survive. I suspect that when the Children "helped" the Last Hero, they resurrected him, because I think he died, and his resurrection was part of the interference that led to the unnatural, therefore if there is going to be another Last Hero - the Children will have to let him die this time and not "help" him. After every historical event has been reversed there needs to be a resolution where magic is taken away from humans and either destroyed or sealed away again. In this regard the Citadel will get their way and white walkers and dragons will cease to exist. That goes for wargs and skinchangers too. Their abilities need to disappear so that they don't have an advantage over non-skinchangers. Bran will also have to become the Last Greenseer. I wonder if he'll ever get to leave the cave?
  12. Feather Crystal

    Re-read: Wildings are the Others

    Yes, you are right. How sloppy of me. I was imagining the Trident as being the dividing line running parallel within the Neck, but after reviewing the map it more or less runs at an angle through and below the Neck. I should revise my statement that I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands until Harren the Black drove them out, and then they fled north of the Neck. I was actually doing additional work on the theory of this OP today, and part of what I was working on includes my belief that the Starks may have taken Winterfell by conquest from another tribe of First Men closer to the time when the Andals migrated to Westeros and brought iron. The theory is based on the symbolic nature of the King in the North's crown, which consists of a bronze circlet surrounded by nine iron swords which hints that the iron defeated and wards the bronze. If true it could explain why the Children didn't settle happily in the north protected by Starks, but rather found their refuge north of the Wall.
  13. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 208 Winter is Coming

    I have a feeling that the lower levels that are barred (warded) with iron will have crypts of people that are not Starks, but rather the original inhabitants of Winterfell.
  14. Feather Crystal

    Re-read: Wildings are the Others

    This is why I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands north of the Neck until Harren the Black cut down “forests of weirwoods” to build Harrenhal, and why I suspect the Pact was considered broke right before the dragons came. If there were still forests of weirwoods until Harren cut them down, then the Children still had places to live. Edited: I should revise my statement that I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands until Harren the Black drove them out, and then they fled north of the Neck.
  15. Feather Crystal

    Re-read: Wildings are the Others

    Well if Maester Luwin told it true the Pact held through the Long Night and didn't end until after the Andals came: “The Pact began four thousand years of friendship between men and children. In time, the First Men even put aside the gods they had brought with them, and took up the worship of the secret gods of the wood. The signing of the Pact ended the Dawn Age, and began the Age of Heroes.” Bran’s fist curled around the shiny black arrowhead. “But the children of the forest are all gone now, you said.” “Here, they are,” said Osha, as she bit off the end of the last bandage with her teeth. “North of the Wall, things are different. That’s where the children went, and the giants, and the other old races.” Maester Luwin sighed. “Woman, by rights you ought to be dead or in chains. The Starks have treated you more gently than you deserve. It is unkind to repay them for their kindness by filling the boys’ heads with folly.” “Tell me where they went,” Bran said. “I want to know.” “Me too,” Rickon echoed. “Oh, very well,” Luwin muttered. “So long as the kingdoms of the First Men held sway, the Pact endured, all through the Age of Heroes and the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms, yet finally there came a time, many centuries later, when other peoples crossed the narrow sea. “The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests. The wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end the six southron kingdoms all fell before them. Only here, where the King in the North threw back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the children where they found them, and everywhere proclaimed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the children fled north—” Maester Luwin didn't get to finish, because this is where a raven brought news of Ned's death, but I noticed Luwin didn't say the Children fled north of the Wall - just "north", so it is plausible that they only moved north of the Neck after the Andals came, and didn't move beyond the Wall until Harren the Black built Harrenhal. I am going to insert my belief that the Pact was officially broken when the north didn't protect them from Harren, and the Children had to resort to fire magic by summoning the Targaryens.
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