A Horse Named Stranger Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 @Manhole Eunuchsbane No. More inclined to put that bravado in the Ted Cruz category of self-promotion/creating name recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I think it's kind of refreshing to come across a politician who's willing to speak his mind. Do you think a Congressperson has much sway in these sorts of matters? Do you think his entreaty is likely to sway an electoral college member? I don't. Ha. Whether he is going to sway anyone was not the point. But ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 36 minutes ago, Swordfish said: I'm clearly asking for your opinion here. I don't know why you're obfuscating. Wasn't clear, because I've been talking in general for the entire time. That said, I believe the C.I.A. saw enough evidence to conclude that the Russians probably hacked the DNC and that it's selective release of information was probably to help Trump win the election, and that maybe the F.B.I. saw the same information and either didn't draw the same conclusion or determined it didn't meet their internal standards to make the same public confirmation. Given everything we've seen over the last year, be it the clear hacks, selective leaking, and the F.B.I. Director's behavior, I'm leaning towards the C.I.A.'s conclusion. ETA: Also what @Fragile Bird said. The C.I.A. is simply more equipped to evaluate this type of intel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 11 minutes ago, Notone said: @Manhole Eunuchsbane No. More inclined to put that bravado in the Ted Cruz category of self-promotion/creating name recognition. Fair enough. I'm sure that factors into his actions somewhat. Still some bravery involved there, doncha think, what with Trump taking office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Swordfish said: Ha. Whether he is going to sway anyone was not the point. But ok. If you're asking me whether or not I think the Electoral College should flip, I'd lean towards no. That said, I think it's an interesting idea. The outcome would likely involve bloodshed, so I'd probably just as soon not have this occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: If you're asking me whether or not I think the Electoral College should flip, I'd lean towards no. That said, I think it's an interesting idea. The outcome would likely involve bloodshed, so I'd probably just as soon not have this occur. We were talking about whether the left has accepted the outcome of the election. I'm just providing examples of instances where they quite clearly have not. Apparently we are no longer concerned about the possibility of public officials undermining the legitimacy of the process. Which is fine. I thought those claims were pure partisan hyperbole when they were brought up in regards to Trump, so I'm cool with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Swordfish said: We were talking about whether the left has accepted the outcome of the election. I'm just providing examples of instances where they quite clearly have not. Apparently we are no longer concerned about the possibility of public officials undermining the legitimacy of the process. Which is fine. I thought those claims were pure partisan hyperbole when they were brought up in regards to Trump, so I'm cool with it. It took me awhile, but I personally have accepted the outcome of this election. I'm still a bit depressed about it, but I'm certainly not in denial. Are there folks who are still in denial? Sure. I'm not concerned about public officials undermining the process because one congressperson simply cannot achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 There's still time till January. So Trump can get into a twitter war with Bill Maher, or Sam Bee. Or the President of China. Sorry, if I am missing the bravery part. If the congress Democrats gathered on inaugaration day and performed a "Roman Salute" towards God Emperor Trump...that would actually take some balls. A no-name congressman trying to become somewhat less no-name by denouncing President Trump (wow, I managed to write those two words without it giving me shudder), too small fish to fry for Trump. Esp. now that he is busy assembling his Legion of Doom (aka his cabinet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 4 minutes ago, Swordfish said: We were talking about whether the left has accepted the outcome of the election. I think a majority of people have, but the ones that haven't will always get the most attention. And frankly, flipping the final vote of the EC is a pipe dream. If Democrats want to prevent Trump from being as bad as many of us fear, we'd best make sure that Republicans are held accountable for what he does rather than trying to get cute with the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I think the EC flipping the vote is a terrible idea and one that would probably come back to bite the left in the ass later. I think if you're going to ignore democratic norms and procedures, you better have an extremely strong case backed by clear and convincing evidence. If we believe that one of the threats that Donald Trump poses is a threat to democratic norms and standards, then don't undermine democracy itself by doing something rash and stupid. It's kind of like a "we had to destroy it to save it" sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 hours ago, OldGimletEye said: Now Republican Party, what about Hillary's emails again? The honest answer from the Republican party to that question should be, 'we never really believed that those emails were much of an issue but we've got very, very good at making anything a Democrat does into a huge deal. Point for us.' 12 minutes ago, Swordfish said: We were talking about whether the left has accepted the outcome of the election. Get back to me when the right have accepted the result of the 2008 election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, mormont said: Get back to me when the right have accepted the result of the 2008 election. Why is this relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, mormont said: Get back to me when the right have accepted the result of the 2008 election. who is still fighting that result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, Squab said: who is still fighting that result? Well, the Republicans have for the past eight years. And after Obama leaves, do you think they will announce they were wrong to do the things they did, like announcing after the 2012 election their role was to fight the administration tooth and nail for the next 4 years? I'd say the only way you could say they aren't still fighting the result would be if the came out and did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 1 minute ago, The Great Unwashed said: How is it not relevant? Birthers comprised a substantial subset among those of a conservative bent, and their protestations against the legitimacy of Obama as President lasted nearly the entirety of his duration in office, after elections where he handily won the EC and popular votes. Except my point was not to compare the level of acceptance of the two presidents. So....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Well, the Republicans have for the past eight years. And after Obama leaves, do you think they will announce they were wrong to do the things they did, like announcing after the 2012 election their role was to fight the administration tooth and nail for the next 4 years? I'd say the only way you could say they aren't still fighting the result would be if the came out and did that. So they accepted it and vowed to fight. You can still accept the result and fight against the administration. Birthers would be the people not accepting the legitimacy of the president but are they still fighting the result from that election? I guess it can be argued but I don't think they would argue Obama didn't win the election, I think the argument (however weak) is his ability to run. I thought they were all pretty much gone anyway - I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't disappeared but nobody pays them any attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-persistent-partisan-divide-over-birther-question-n627446 Quote Seventy-two percent of registered Republican voters still doubt President Obama's citizenship, according to a recent NBC News|SurveyMonkey poll conducted in late June and early July of more than 1,700 registered voters. And this skepticism even exists among Republicans high in political knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Senator Lindsey Graham is on CNN right now admitting his accounts were hacked into. The contractor who provides the services was hacked, and through the contractor, his account. He was advised by the FBI back in June. Kept quiet about that, didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squab Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-persistent-partisan-divide-over-birther-question-n627446 an NBC poll? Do people still believe these? Arent they just propaganda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Just now, Squab said: an NBC poll? Do people still believe these? Arent they just propaganda? Nice try. But nobody is buying the "libuuraaal media" bullshit you want to sell. You're not going to get that little blanky for comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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