Mladen Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: But I get it, Risto, much like you, also thinks diversity in the Oscars is fake and not worthy. He's unlikely to be willing to read or comprehend an article about how the mistake was quite damaging. Of course the mistake was damaging, but not in the fashion the article suggests. The mistake has nothing to do with the fact that "Moonlight" can be considered "a black movie" (God, I hate that). It could have happened to any movie, any other year. It was unfortunate, but there was no ill will or some sinister intention behind it. It was damaging because yes, they lost the moment and people will remember this blunder for ages. But, at the end of the day, it is not something that was in any way provoked or caused by any colorskin-related issue. 17 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Risto missed the entire article considering he thinks it was about the mistake being intentional. No, you misunderstood me. What I think is that talking about it in terms of racism, POC and problems the community have is wrong. It was a mistake. Nothing more, nothing less. And no need to invoke entire civil right movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Risto said: First, it was at least 7 kilometers, he also had to climb all the stairs to the main level and then jump. Then, trunk surfing had narrative sense since we had one in TT. Beheading a herald was necessary to show us their faith in Frodo... You see, reasoning I am sorry but Rohirrim trumps everything. It is the bestest. And bonus points for having Cate Blanchett. She is a seal of approval. And you can't argue against that (Don't you dare mention THAT moment in LOTR 1 and Hobbit 3) clearing quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The mistake is regrettable but unless it was deliberate how can it have racial implications? Is this an implication that the mistake wouldn't have happened if the real winner wasn't "Moonlight"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said: As has been pointed out to you, it was a mistake. Mistakes happen and are regrettable. Adding some sort of racial commentary onto it is unhelpful and really just says more about the motivations of the author of the article than anything about the reality of the situation. Ah yes, the terrible motivations of the author who's interested in a more equitable world. Terrible stuff, truly. How disgusting can you get? Mistakes have consequences. 3 minutes ago, Risto said: Of course the mistake was damaging, but not in the fashion the article suggests. The mistake has nothing to do with the fact that "Moonlight" can be considered "a black movie" (God, I hate that). It could have happened to any movie, any other year. It was unfortunate, but there was no ill will or some sinister intention behind it. It was damaging because yes, they lost the moment and people will remember this blunder for ages. But, at the end of the day, it is not something that was in any way provoked or caused by any colorskin-related issue. No, you misunderstood me. What I think is that talking about it in terms of racism, POC and problems the community have is wrong. It was a mistake. Nothing more, nothing less. And no need to invoke entire civil right movement Wow, just wow. So you hate "black movie". I'm speechless. Sure, it could have happened to any other movie, but it didn't. It happened this year for this movie and the consequences are associated with this movie, not some hypothetical movie in another year. Mistakes have consequences. 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: The mistake is regrettable but unless it was deliberate how can it have racial implications? Is this an implication that the mistake wouldn't have happened if the real winner wasn't "Moonlight"? Broken record, mistakes have consequences. Consequences are not the same across the board. Not a single person (accept those who think there aren't consequences for this mistake) has suggested that it was deliberate. That would actually make it, you know, not a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Dr. P, Yes, mistakes have consequences. What do you and the author of the article see as the consequences of this mistake? Other than Price Waterhouse losing the Oscars as their client what should the consequences be, in your opinon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Wow, just wow. So you hate "black movie". I'm speechless. I will not even deign to answer on that absurd statement. 8 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Sure, it could have happened to any other movie, but it didn't. It happened this year for this movie and the consequences are associated with this movie, not some hypothetical movie in another year. Mistakes have consequences. And we are all aware of that. I just think that many of us don't see how it is related to the racial problem in Hollywood, America or as for that matter, anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Dr. P, Yes, mistakes have consequences. What do you and the author of the article see as the consequences of this mistake? Other than Price Waterhouse losing the Oscars as their client what should the consequences be, in your opinon? I'm pretty sure the article was clear in spelling out those consequences. It's obviously not talking about who should be punished, or even if anyone needs to be punished. It's talking about what it means that Moonlight was robbed of it's moment. A mistake (that no one has said was intentional) has consequences for a movie like Moonlight and those effects are different than if it had happened to a movie like La La Land or Gladiator or No Country For Old Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Risto said: I will not even deign to answer on that absurd statement. Right, because being speechless at your utter lack of respect for black (and can I also assume LGBTQ?) movies is absurd. I mean, wow, Risto. You've really changed. Quote And we are all aware of that. I just think that many of us don't see how it is related to the racial problem in Hollywood, America or as for that matter, anywhere else. This much is clear. It's also clear that you're unable and, considering your comments about black movies, also unwilling to empathize with the queer or POC view about how damaging it was the a movie like Moonlight was robbed of it's moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: I'm pretty sure the article was clear in spelling out those consequences. It's obviously not talking about who should be punished, or even if anyone needs to be punished. It's talking about what it means that Moonlight was robbed of it's moment. A mistake (that no one has said was intentional) has consequences for a movie like Moonlight and those effects are different than if it had happened to a movie like La La Land or Gladiator or No Country For Old Men. If there is no remedy, as is implied, what purpose does the discussion serve? Shouldn't we be trying to get to a point where the consequences for Moonlight would be the same as for any other film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said: Right, because being speechless at your utter lack of respect for black (and can I also assume LGBTQ?) movies is absurd. I mean, wow, Risto. You've really changed. Yes, I hate LGBTQ movies... That is why "Carol" is my all-time favorite... I hate calling any movie "black movie"... For me, a good movie is a good movie. Not that is a "good black" or "good white" or "good Asian" movie. I hate those kind expressions and associations. I think that movies like "Moonlight", "Twelve Years a Slave", "The Butler" "Selma" etc, even though they have African-Americans in their core, they actually speak to all nations and all races. BTW, yeah, I have changed... Risto is more zen than Mladen... If I hadn't, I wouldn't have still been here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: If there is no remedy, as is implied, what purpose does the discussion serve? Shouldn't we be trying to get to a point where the consequences for Moonlight would be the same as for any other film? Um, sure. That's sort of the point. But we aren't there yet, not by a long shot. The purpose of the discussion is to point that out. That fact that many think it means nothing and that it was nothing more than a silly little mistake that a movie like Moonlight did not have it's moment is exactly why it needs to be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 The Moonlight/Lala land conversation has gotten unbearably silly. I will now weigh in on Gladiator: Gladiator was a good movie and deserved best picture. It was certainly a better movie than Birdman or Gravity or many other recent winners and nominees. Also worth remembering is that before Gladiator it was received wisdom that those type of 'epics' would never again be successful at the box office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just now, Risto said: Yes, I hate LGBTQ movies... That is why "Carol" is my all-time favorite... I hate calling any movie "black movie"... For me, a good movie is a good movie. Not that is a "good black" or "good white" or "good Asian" movie. I hate those kind expressions and associations. I think that movies like "Moonlight", "Twelve Years a Slave", "The Butler" "Selma" etc, even though they have African-Americans in their core, they actually speak to all nations and all races. This is like saying "I don't see skin color, I only see humans." Or "I don't hate gays, my best friend is gay." Moonlight is a black queer movie. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Dr.P, Is it wrong to make an effort to avoid bias and judge people as people not based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Just now, Dr. Pepper said: This is like saying "I don't see skin color, I only see humans." Or "I don't hate gays, my best friend is gay." Moonlight is a black queer movie. Get over it. I don't have the issue with Moonlight being black queer movie. I watch a lot of LGBTQ movies and TV shows. I feel as if I am judged here for no reason whatsoever. No, I am saying that for far too long, we have divided movies in many categories, skin color included. I just think that the time has come to not think about something in the way where race seems to be the most important. I wish one day people will wake up, watch a movie with POC cast, can be called "good movie". And end there. Moonlight was a good movie. It was excellent movie. And it ends there for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Dr.P, Is it wrong to make an effort to avoid bias and judge people as people not based upon race, gender, or sexual orientation? It depends on the situation. To refuse to acknowledge that people of a different race, gender or sexual orientation would have different experiences is absolutely wrong and also damaging. 22 minutes ago, Risto said: I don't have the issue with Moonlight being black queer movie. I watch a lot of LGBTQ movies and TV shows. I feel as if I am judged here for no reason whatsoever. No, I am saying that for far too long, we have divided movies in many categories, skin color included. I just think that the time has come to not think about something in the way where race seems to be the most important. I wish one day people will wake up, watch a movie with POC cast, can be called "good movie". And end there. Moonlight was a good movie. It was excellent movie. And it ends there for me. I think we all wish that, but you're speaking of a utopia that doesn't exist, a time when people are judged for the content of their character and not the color of their skin or who they have sex with. As I mentioned to scot, refusing to acknowledge that experiences are different is wrong and damaging. Your utopia isn't going to exist when you fail to acknowledge these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Dr.P, It is not ignoring race, gender, and sexual orientation when you look at your own bias and endeavor to set that bias aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channel4s-JonSnow Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 This is just turning into identity politics via the medium of film making. Maybe we aren't at a point where something like Moonlight is just a standard movie about people falling in love, but is in fact a 'black gay movie', but at the same time just because thats what it is doesn't give it any sort of special status nor should it get any special treatment. If it got a raw deal due to an error is shameful, but no less or more shameful than if the same thing had happened to any other movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said: Sigh, you clearly didn't read the article. Kind of like you clearly didn't see La La Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 13 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said: Cosmo put out a pretty amazing article about the Moonlight flub last night. The entire article should be read and it's not long, but I'll post some of the most pertinent parts here. Moonlight Was Robbed of It's Moment I haven't watched the movie but I do agree it was robbed of its moment, although it was due to an infortunate mistake. I think they should have played the music during a few seconds as soon as they acknowledged the error (before Moonlight speeches) but they didn't have anyone prepared to do that. They needed more comunication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.