Academy Awards 2017 - Oscar Night: In the Pale Moonlight

[Spockydog]

2 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Hmm. Killer Snark is really bad at poetry, and really bad at politics, but it turns out he's really good at racism and misogyny. Maybe you'll find the success you seek if you target your poems to the Breibart crowd eh chap.

Don't be too tough on the guy. He's trapped inside a milk bottle. Is it any wonder his worldview is warped af?

 

[HexMachina]

40 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

No, that's not what he's said. Can't and won't apologize for what was actually said.  One would think that if that person were so sure he was actually misrepresented, that anything I had to say about it wouldn't matter....

I've already acknowledged that I was wrong by bringing in grievances from other threads and allowing those to inform how I interpreted Manhole's defense of white nostalgia as it relates to discussions in this thread.  I've offered him multiple outs.  He continues to litigate this topic.  

But sure, I'll give it a rest. Let's see if others are willing to do the same.  

Moving on, is there a situation comparable to a film like Suicide Squad being able to toss an "Oscar Winner" sticker on the box?

I dont really feel Suicide Squad was particularly accomplished in terms of Hair and Make-Up (that was the award right?) I didnt see Star Trek or...the other one whatever it was again. But i have to wonder why the nominees were such slim pickings.

Fantastic Beasts didnt really deserve the costume award either, imo. For me that should have gone to Jackie (again, based on the films i saw this year)

[DanteGabriel]

I didn't know the Killer Snark was such an expert on the history of jazz (aside from his well researched opinions on the racial composition of American jazz fans) but I should have realized he has authoritative knowledge of how white men made everything good.

[Jaxom 1974]

For some reason I do believe the hair and make up category is never more than three nominations...at least in recent times...

[Zorral]

27 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

Re jazz, what a lot of people forget is that though it technically is of black origin, a lot of its antecedents were actually in the innovations into syncopated rhythm of some Western classical composers. Bach, for instance, or Beethoven, especially in the latter's last piano sonata, which now sounds uncannily prophetic. A number of the  most important jazz musicians, bandleaders and arrangers of the twentieth century were white people. There were also white composers working in a jazz idiom at various points in their career such as Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, and of course Gershwin. It isn't as if the director of La La Land decided, "Hey, let's make a movie pretending white people ever had anything to do with jazz.' Plus, most of the jazz musicians in that film are black people, so I cannot see what people are arguing about.

I'm taking a tea break during Moonlight. I'm enjoying it, but it's a slow burner, so I'm not deciding how good I think it is right now.

The origins of jazz are in black New Orleans, not in white Europe.  Trust me, Buddy Boldon (and certainly not the kid, Louis Armstrong -- though he did bring in what he called the Spanish thing fairly early after spending a period in Havana) and Jelly Roll Morton did not do Bach, fer pete's sake.

Though like all popular musicians including the old Delta Blues inventors, they wanted to be popular and they played everything that people wanted to hear -- particularly what they could dance to.  You can't dance to Bach, despite Twyla Tharpe pretending her dancers could!  But they did play cowboy songs, for instance and everything else along with their new stuff.   If you really care about this and want to be educated into it, read Louis Armstrong's New Orleans by Thomas Brothers. And of course, talk to the musicians, actually no, listen to them talk! -- the New Orleans musicians.  And most of all, LISTEN to the music from the earliest days to now. Otherwise you're cutting and pasting, running on empty without a clue.  

What really strikes me about Brits is how many of them fly That Flag in their bars, in their homes.  Not all of them of course, and certainly not our friends, and certainly not the professional music people.

 

 

[HexMachina]

Just now, Jaxom 1974 said:

For some reason I do believe the hair and make up category is never more than three nominations...at least in recent times...

Interesting. I'll look that up. 

Still, i would have thought there were stronger contenders...unless there is some kind of unspoken agreement of not nominating the "big films" (the best pocture noms) for that award

[Meera of Tarth]

26 minutes ago, The Killer Snark said:

Re jazz, what a lot of people forget is that though it technically is of black origin, a lot of its antecedents were actually in the innovations into syncopated rhythm of some Western classical composers. Bach, for instance, or Beethoven, especially in the latter's last piano sonata, which now sounds uncannily prophetic. A number of the  most important jazz musicians, bandleaders and arrangers of the twentieth century were white people. There were also white composers working in a jazz idiom at various points in their career such as Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, and of course Gershwin. It isn't as if the director of La La Land decided, "Hey, let's make a movie pretending white people ever had anything to do with jazz.' Plus, most of the jazz musicians in that film are black people, so I cannot see what people are arguing about.

I'm taking a tea break during Moonlight. I'm enjoying it, but it's a slow burner, so I'm not deciding how good I think it is right now.

Yes, the film portrays some people as jazz nostalgics, or purists, Sebastian and the band who is playing on that club, who just happen to be black of skin colour, and then the guys who think that jazz has to be reinvented into a some modern sort of thing. There is nothing racist on that film, or I just could not see anything racist hidden on it at all.

[The Killer Snark]

7 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The origins of jazz are in black New Orleans, not in white Europe.  Trust me, Buddy Boldon (and certainly not the kid, Louis Armstrong -- though he did bring in what he called the Spanish thing fairly early after spending a period in Havana) and Jelly Roll Morton did not do Bach, fer pete's sake.

Though like all popular musicians including the old Delta Blues inventors, they wanted to be popular and they played everything that people wanted to hear -- particularly what they could dance to.  You can't dance to Bach, despite Twyla Tharpe pretending her dancers could!  But they did play cowboy songs, for instance and everything else along with their new stuff.   If you really care about this and want to be educated into it, read Louis Armstrong's New Orleans by Thomas Brothers. And of course, talk to the musicians, actually no, listen to them talk! -- the New Orleans musicians.  And most of all, LISTEN to the music from the earliest days to now. Otherwise you're running on empty without a clue.  

What really strikes me about Brits is how many of them fly That Flag in their bars, in their homes.  Not all of them of course, and certainly not our friends, and certainly not the professional music people.

 

 

I know that the origins of jazz were in New Orleans and not white Europe. But at the same time there was a European classical influence on many jazz musicians, not least Fats Waller (who started out as a classically trained pianist who did indeed play Bach), Miles Davis and Bill Evans. This influence can't be disputed. Not all jazz music is primarily designed to dance to. I am not claiming white people invented jazz, just that the role that white people have had in its development even though it is a music primarily of black origin is ignored by too many for reasons of agenda. Hell, most rock bands are composed of white musicians, but I'm not going to ignore the contributiion to rock music that black musicians have made.

Meera of Tarth - Thank you. That's my attitude as well.

 

 

 

[Meera of Tarth]

5 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Well.....a lot to take in with so many thoughts youve all posted.

At this point Ive the feeling LA LA Land nor Moonlight would be very interesting viewing for me. I think Arrival, Hacksaw and Hell or Highwater all sound much more enjoyable for me.

Also still really pleased Casey Afleck won. I first came to appreciate his acting in the Jesse James movie, also the movie where he plays a rogue Western Deputy but ive forgotten the title of that movie. He's been great in everything ive seen him in. He has this uniquely calm delivery that seems like hes right in the room with you, its very effective imo. That said, I wouldve been fine if Denzel had won as well. (Note to self- Im about due for a Malcolm X rewatch, just love that movie)

As to Emma Stone winning, I wouldve given the Oscar to Natalie Portman for the Jackie O portrayal over Stone.

I've not seen the Jesse James movie but I saw the one you mention and it's called The Killer Inside Me, and I think it was one of the first ones where I saw he had a lot of potential.

[Xray the Enforcer]

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