Heresy 197 the wit and wisdom of Old Nan

[Melifeather]

I would theorize that Robert killing Rhaegar in the Trident and the Brandon and Littlefinger duel is another time loop. To solidify the theory it would be nice to find one or two more parallel instances.

[PrettyPig]

Oh my gosh, so many things to say and of course no time to say any of them well!

8 hours ago, JNR said:

There are some issues, too: Littlefinger is not really a prince

 

7 hours ago, Matthew. said:

Nonetheless, as JNR notes, Dany designates the figure she's viewing as a "dying prince."

Yep, this is an issue.  However, this is where the allegorical nature of the vision takes over, because IMO this is a conflation of two real events.   Dany interprets the fallen one as a prince because he IS a prince...it IS Rhaegar, in a way.  We are meant to associate this vision with Rhaegar, absolutely - so we (and Dany) get the elements of the Trident:  the 'dream knowledge' that this is a prince, the dying, the rubies, etc.   On the other hand, bringing in the elements of the LF duel keeps the vision vague enough to be confusing/open to interpretation.  

So what would be the purpose, then, of conflating these events?  To point us all to each individual scenario so that we understand WHY these things belong together.  And that leads to :

7 hours ago, Matthew. said:

It seems to me that these visions are being presented as sets of three, each related by a theme. In the "daughter of death" set, the first is obviously Viserys, and the tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair seems likely to represent the Rhaego that would have been. Given that the first two visions are of dead family members with personal significance to Dany, I don't believe it follows thematically for the third vision to be of the still living Littlefinger

I think we ARE in a fashion being shown Rhaegar, or rather, what happened to Rhaegar.  If you deep-dive into the other two visions, there's a common theme:   greed.   Viserys died because he was consumed with his own greed for riches and power.   Rhaego died because of Dany's greed; she thought she could buck magic, have her cake and eat it too, and she paid the price.  Now Rhaegar....if we look to the LF scene in this context, I wonder if we aren't being told that Rhaegar died as the result of someone else's greed:  Petyr Baelish coveting Catelyn Tully and his anger at her love of/by a Stark.   That's something separate to explore in another thread perhaps, but if we're taking into account events that have a profound effect on Dany's life and allow her to "become", Rhaegar's death - an event that may have another layer, or not be quite as it seems - would certainly fit into that theme.     Throw in some inversion theory - the battle of the Trident more or less ended the Rebellion, whereas the duel between LF and Brandon *may* have triggered the beginning - and again, I believe we're being instructed via use of allegory to rethink what we "know" and reinterpret what we "see".

 

Also, not sure if any of you caught this from the quote of the duel above, but:

Quote

Petyr had begged her for a favor he might wear, but she had turned him away. Her lord father promised her to Brandon Stark, and so it was to him that she gave her token, a pale blue handscarf she had embroidered with the leaping trout of Riverrun. As she pressed it into his hand, she pleaded with him. "He is only a foolish boy, but I have loved him like a brother. It would grieve me to see him die." And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her.

Pale blue; taken by the hand; Promise me, Brandon.      Long have we underestimated the criticality of this passage, imo.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

There are actually very very few.

So few, I can accept they are deliberately put there.

Again, with WW and TCOTF, who am I to quibble over how the Westerosi ate their salads?

 I agree.  Although it seems that few likenesses look very much like the subject; if Lyanna's statue is any indication. It's worth paying attention to the things that seem out of place.  Martin's use of the term angel is another.  He only uses it in this passage:

Quote

 

A Feast for Crows - Arya II

"Death is not the worst thing," the kindly man replied. "It is His gift to us, an end to want and pain. On the day that we are born the Many-Faced God sends each of us a dark angel to walk through life beside us. When our sins and our sufferings grow too great to be borne, the angel takes us by the hand to lead us to the nightlands, where the stars burn ever bright. Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels. If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

 

[JNR]

7 hours ago, Black Crow said:

I agree and would also suggest that these are not only to a degree allegorical but second-hand; some of them are stories retold as visions

Well, the vision content is explicitly stated in advance:

Quote

Sights and sounds of days gone by and days to come and days that never were.

Not "stories somebody made up." 

Sights and sounds of reality, though that reality may be a future one... or an alternate reality, that didn't happen and will never happen (the Rhaego vision apparently falls into this class).

Sights like a dying prince.  Sounds like a murmur, that Dany would never be able to hear if it were Rhaegar.

8 hours ago, Matthew. said:

I'd be truly impressed if someone can come up with a character that fits that vision better than either Rhaegar or Littlefinger

Well, if it's a vision of the future (which we can't know), and if Aegon is legit, then Aegon is a member of Dany's family: her brother Rhaegar's son. 

And he would be a real prince, and the rubies would also be real, if GRRM decided he were going to get Rhaegarish armor to promote his claim as Rhaegar's son.

So that would be a complete fit, and better than either Rhaegar (whom Dany did not even recognize from the vision, despite all of Viserys's tales, and who has various other problems) or Littlefinger (not a prince, not dying, not rubies). 

[LynnS]

31 minutes ago, PrettyPig said:

Oh my gosh, so many things to say and of course no time to say any of them well!

Yep, this is an issue.  However, this is where the allegorical nature of the vision takes over, because IMO this is a conflation of two real events.   Dany interprets the fallen one as a prince because he IS a prince...it IS Rhaegar, in a way.  We are meant to associate this vision with Rhaegar, absolutely - so we (and Dany) get the elements of the Trident:  the 'dream knowledge' that this is a prince, the dying, the rubies, etc.   On the other hand, bringing in the elements of the LF duel keeps the vision vague enough to be confusing/open to interpretation.  

So what would be the purpose, then, of conflating these events?  To point us all to each individual scenario so that we understand WHY these things belong together.  And that leads to :

I think we ARE in a fashion being shown Rhaegar, or rather, what happened to Rhaegar.  If you deep-dive into the other two visions, there's a common theme:   greed.   Viserys died because he was consumed with his own greed for riches and power.   Rhaego died because of Dany's greed; she thought she could buck magic, have her cake and eat it too, and she paid the price.  Now Rhaegar....if we look to the LF scene in this context, I wonder if we aren't being told that Rhaegar died as the result of someone else's greed:  Petyr Baelish coveting Catelyn Tully and his anger at her love of/by a Stark.   That's something separate to explore in another thread perhaps, but if we're taking into account events that have a profound effect on Dany's life and allow her to "become", Rhaegar's death - an event that may have another layer, or not be quite as it seems - would certainly fit into that theme.     Throw in some inversion theory - the battle of the Trident more or less ended the Rebellion, whereas the duel between LF and Brandon *may* have triggered the beginning - and again, I believe we're being instructed via use of allegory to rethink what we "know" and reinterpret what we "see".

Also, not sure if any of you caught this from the quote of the duel above, but:

Pale blue; taken by the hand; Promise me, Brandon.      Long have we underestimated the criticality of this passage, imo.

WOW!

[PrettyPig]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yes it is!  Much better, I like it.  Especially when the line preceding the murky visions is this:

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

 

 

 

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me."

 

. . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . .

 

NICE!!!

And ohhh yes....mocking....the mockingbird....mocking bird.   "Little birds" that gather secrets and spread (mis)information.  A mockingbird that mimics the cries of other birds.   

Also, from Wikipedia:  "Some types of mockingbirds are known to lay "alien eggs", or eggs that are laid in another bird's nest. Similar to the cowbird, the mockingbirds' offspring will force the other nest inhabitants from the nest, taking all the food from the parents and forcing the foster-parents to rear and fledge them."

/end random free association

[LynnS]

45 minutes ago, JNR said:

Sights and sounds of reality, though that reality may be a future one... or an alternate reality, that didn't happen and will never happen (the Rhaego vision apparently falls into this class).

Damn your impeccable logic, JNR!  I like this as well... LOL.  So... what was, what might have been and what might yet be.  The first two are failed future outcomes.  Neither Viserys nor Rheago became king of Westeros.  So whether or not Aegon lives will depend on what actions Dany takes regarding her claim on the throne.  It's not certain that he will die.

The similarity between Rhaegar's end and Aegon's potential demise including the rubies like blood; tells me that Aegon is Rhaegar's blood after all.

[Black Crow]

51 minutes ago, JNR said:

Well, the vision content is explicitly stated in advance:

Not "stories somebody made up." 

Sights and sounds of reality, though that reality may be a future one... or an alternate reality, that didn't happen and will never happen (the Rhaego vision apparently falls into this class).

Sights like a dying prince.  Sounds like a murmur, that Dany would never be able to hear if it were Rhaegar.

 

I disagree. The death of Rhaegar at the Trident is clearly what's being referenced but its not a literal and accurate one, hence the absence of accurate detail and by the same token a story that may not be true, The Deceivers are hardly going to admit that they are winging it when presenting their pitch.

[Prof. Cecily]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

 I agree.  Although it seems that few likenesses look very much like the subject; if Lyanna's statue is any indication. It's worth paying attention to the things that seem out of place.  Martin's use of the term angel is another.  He only uses it in this passage:

A Feast for Crows - Arya II

"Death is not the worst thing," the kindly man replied. "It is His gift to us, an end to want and pain. On the day that we are born the Many-Faced God sends each of us a dark angel to walk through life beside us. When our sins and our sufferings grow too great to be borne, the angel takes us by the hand to lead us to the nightlands, where the stars burn ever bright. Those who come to drink from the black cup are looking for their angels. If they are afraid, the candles soothe them. When you smell our candles burning, what does it make you think of, my child?"

 

According to the Wiki

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows

Quote

Bakkalon, the Pale Child, is one of the gods worshipped mostly by soldiers at the House of Black and White. This god appeared already in Martin's 1975 story And Seven Times Never Kill Man (where he is worshipped by a religious sect called Steel Angels), as well as in some other stories of the same era.

There's little to say about Bakkelon

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bakkalon

Thanks for reminding me of that passage, @LynnS. I'm intrigued by the  language and imagry The Kindly Man uses with Arya.

I hope we haven't gone too far off-topic- That's a bad habit of mine

Back to rubies, the gems of glamour.

 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

Also, not sure if any of you caught this from the quote of the duel above, but:

Pale blue; taken by the hand; Promise me, Brandon.      Long have we underestimated the criticality of this passage, imo.

This would seem to point and alliance between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XI

"Lord Eddard!" The shout came from the west side of the hall as a handsome stripling of a boy strode forth boldly. Out of his armor, Ser Loras Tyrell looked even younger than his sixteen years. He wore pale blue silk, his belt a linked chain of golden roses, the sigil of his House. "I beg you the honor of acting in your place. Give this task to me, my lord, and I swear I shall not fail you."

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XII

Ned Stark thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep. "I do not know which of you I pity most."

A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

Ned Stark reached out his hand to grasp the flowery crown, but beneath the pale blue petals the thorns lay hidden. He felt them clawing at his skin, sharp and cruel, saw the slow trickle of blood run down his fingers, and woke, trembling, in the dark.

A Game of Thrones - Tyrion VIII

 A warhorn sounded in the far distance, a deep mournful note that chilled the soul. The clansmen climbed onto their scrawny mountain horses, shouting curses and rude jokes. Several appeared to be drunk. The rising sun was burning off the drifting tendrils of fog as Tyrion led them off. What grass the horses had left was heavy with dew, as if some passing god had scattered a bag of diamonds over the earth. The mountain men fell in behind him, each clan arrayed behind its own leaders.

In the dawn light, the army of Lord Tywin Lannister unfolded like an iron rose, thorns gleaming.

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VI

"Gentle, pious, good-hearted Willas Tyrell. Be grateful you were spared, he would have bored you spitless. The old woman is not boring, though, I'll grant her that. A fearsome old harridan, and not near as frail as she pretends. When I came to Highgarden to dicker for Margaery's hand, she let her lord son bluster while she asked pointed questions about Joffrey's nature. I praised him to the skies, to be sure . . . whilst my men spread disturbing tales amongst Lord Tyrell's servants. That is how the game is played.

"I also planted the notion of Ser Loras taking the white. Not that I suggested it, that would have been too crude. But men in my party supplied grisly tales about how the mob had killed Ser Preston Greenfield and raped the Lady Lollys, and slipped a few silvers to Lord Tyrell's army of singers to sing of Ryam Redwyne, Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands.

 

A linked chain of golden roses is very suggestive of a Lannister/Tyrell alliance; chained together.  A garland of roses is also linked chain of flowers.  Pale blue is not only suggestive of winter roses but of the Tyrells.  Ned's dream also tells us the there are thorns hidden among the roses and it's probably not coincidence that Oleanna is the Queen of Thorns and another who is quick to mock.  Tyrion describes his father's army as an iron rose, thorns gleaming.  And we are told specifically how singers/little birds are used to spread false tales.

 

 

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

According to the Wiki

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows

There's little to say about Bakkelon

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bakkalon

Thanks for reminding me of that passage, @LynnS. I'm intrigued by the  language and imagry The Kindly Man uses with Arya.

I hope we haven't gone too far off-topic- That's a bad habit of mine

Back to rubies, the gems of glamour.

 

 This tends to happen in Heresy.  I think Black Crow refers to the thread as free ranging. 

[Prof. Cecily]

Just as well! That's a relief to a mind like mine

"Oh, look! Something shiny over there!"

In any case, rubies are  curious gems. 

Encrusted in the form of the three-headed dragon on a breastplate? Odd taste; I'd have thought enamel-work would be more appropriate, IMO.

Question for the knowledgeable: just where was Prince Rhaegar during the first part of the  Rebellion? And during the arrest and trial of of Brandon and Lord Rickard?

He takes command of the army after the Battle of the Bells, but where was he beforehand?

[LynnS]

22 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Just as well! That's a relief to a mind like mine

"Oh, look! Something shiny over there!"

In any case, rubies are  curious gems. 

Encrusted in the form of the three-headed dragon on a breastplate? Odd taste; I'd have thought enamel-work would be more appropriate, IMO.

Question for the knowledgeable: just where was Prince Rhaegar during the first part of the  Rebellion? And during the arrest and trial of of Brandon and Lord Rickard?

He takes command of the army after the Battle of the Bells, but where was he beforehand?

It's a good question.  At least part of the time he was at the tower of joy.  I suspect guarding his son Aegon.  If he believed that Aegon was the Prince who is Promised; then his survival would be paramount IMO.    

[Melifeather]

4 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

Oh my gosh, so many things to say and of course no time to say any of them well!

 

Yep, this is an issue.  However, this is where the allegorical nature of the vision takes over, because IMO this is a conflation of two real events.   Dany interprets the fallen one as a prince because he IS a prince...it IS Rhaegar, in a way.  We are meant to associate this vision with Rhaegar, absolutely - so we (and Dany) get the elements of the Trident:  the 'dream knowledge' that this is a prince, the dying, the rubies, etc.   On the other hand, bringing in the elements of the LF duel keeps the vision vague enough to be confusing/open to interpretation.  

So what would be the purpose, then, of conflating these events?  To point us all to each individual scenario so that we understand WHY these things belong together.  And that leads to :

I think we ARE in a fashion being shown Rhaegar, or rather, what happened to Rhaegar.  If you deep-dive into the other two visions, there's a common theme:   greed.   Viserys died because he was consumed with his own greed for riches and power.   Rhaego died because of Dany's greed; she thought she could buck magic, have her cake and eat it too, and she paid the price.  Now Rhaegar....if we look to the LF scene in this context, I wonder if we aren't being told that Rhaegar died as the result of someone else's greed:  Petyr Baelish coveting Catelyn Tully and his anger at her love of/by a Stark.   That's something separate to explore in another thread perhaps, but if we're taking into account events that have a profound effect on Dany's life and allow her to "become", Rhaegar's death - an event that may have another layer, or not be quite as it seems - would certainly fit into that theme.     Throw in some inversion theory - the battle of the Trident more or less ended the Rebellion, whereas the duel between LF and Brandon *may* have triggered the beginning - and again, I believe we're being instructed via use of allegory to rethink what we "know" and reinterpret what we "see".

 

Also, not sure if any of you caught this from the quote of the duel above, but:

Pale blue; taken by the hand; Promise me, Brandon.      Long have we underestimated the criticality of this passage, imo.

I really miss the "like" button, because I really like what you've posted here! The layering over of Littlefinger, Rhaegar, and perhaps future Aegon would likely make any woman's name indecipherable. 

4 hours ago, JNR said:

Well, the vision content is explicitly stated in advance:

Not "stories somebody made up." 

Sights and sounds of reality, though that reality may be a future one... or an alternate reality, that didn't happen and will never happen (the Rhaego vision apparently falls into this class).

Sights like a dying prince.  Sounds like a murmur, that Dany would never be able to hear if it were Rhaegar.

Well, if it's a vision of the future (which we can't know), and if Aegon is legit, then Aegon is a member of Dany's family: her brother Rhaegar's son. 

And he would be a real prince, and the rubies would also be real, if GRRM decided he were going to get Rhaegarish armor to promote his claim as Rhaegar's son.

So that would be a complete fit, and better than either Rhaegar (whom Dany did not even recognize from the vision, despite all of Viserys's tales, and who has various other problems) or Littlefinger (not a prince, not dying, not rubies). 

It does seem likely that we're getting a prophecy for JonCon's Aegon. 

3 hours ago, PrettyPig said:

NICE!!!

And ohhh yes....mocking....the mockingbird....mocking bird.   "Little birds" that gather secrets and spread (mis)information.  A mockingbird that mimics the cries of other birds.   

Also, from Wikipedia:  "Some types of mockingbirds are known to lay "alien eggs", or eggs that are laid in another bird's nest. Similar to the cowbird, the mockingbirds' offspring will force the other nest inhabitants from the nest, taking all the food from the parents and forcing the foster-parents to rear and fledge them."

/end random free association

I do believe there was a group of conspirators that mirrored the Kingswood Brotherhood, but were also NOT Rhaegar and his men. This plot does seem to have Littlefinger's prints all over it. He would want revenge on Brandon, for sure and wouldn't care who else was harmed as long as the finger didn't point towards him.

1 hour ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Just as well! That's a relief to a mind like mine

"Oh, look! Something shiny over there!"

In any case, rubies are  curious gems. 

Encrusted in the form of the three-headed dragon on a breastplate? Odd taste; I'd have thought enamel-work would be more appropriate, IMO.

Question for the knowledgeable: just where was Prince Rhaegar during the first part of the  Rebellion? And during the arrest and trial of of Brandon and Lord Rickard?

He takes command of the army after the Battle of the Bells, but where was he beforehand?

IMO he was down south in Dorne, to bring his son or maybe even his daughter too, to safety. Not convinced Aegon was at the tower of joy, because I think he was already safe by the time Rhaegar returned, talked to Jaime, and then headed for the Trident.

[Rodx]

I think if Victarion sending his man to blow the horn is what will destroy the Wall,yes I know that is far away but maybe ...

[Matthew.]

6 hours ago, JNR said:

Well, if it's a vision of the future (which we can't know), and if Aegon is legit, then Aegon is a member of Dany's family: her brother Rhaegar's son. 

And he would be a real prince, and the rubies would also be real, if GRRM decided he were going to get Rhaegarish armor to promote his claim as Rhaegar's son.

So that would be a complete fit, and better than either Rhaegar (whom Dany did not even recognize from the vision, despite all of Viserys's tales, and who has various other problems) or Littlefinger (not a prince, not dying, not rubies). 

A fair possibility, though it seems somewhat contingent upon Aegon not being the cloth dragon/mummer's dragon from the "slayer of lies" set.

Nonetheless, I guess this will become an issue of what each reader subjectively will accept out of this scene, as when I first read that chapter I was reminded heavily of the Black Lodge scenes from Twin Peaks, and thought there might be an element of purposeful homage; from that perspective, I did not (and still do not) find the arguments against the figure being Rhaegar to be particularly damning.

To be more specific, I'm not as convinced that logic problems in a scene that already has something of a fever dream quality, and where the POV character we're relying upon for comprehension is in a state of questionable lucidity, are necessarily problems at all. It's odd that she doesn't designate the figure as "Rhaegar," but it's also odd that she does identify him as a dying prince, and seems to grasp some fraction of the sentiment behind his dying words, but not the specific word/name--a convenient bit of selective omniscience. No matter who we speculate the figure to be, we can probably find flaws with any interpretation.

[Melifeather]

36 minutes ago, Matthew. said:

A fair possibility, though it seems somewhat contingent upon Aegon not being the cloth dragon/mummer's dragon from the "slayer of lies" set.

"Mummer's dragon" can be read more than one way. He could still be true Targaryen, but bankrolled/suppported by mummers Illyrio and Varys. It doesn't have to mean that he's a fake.

[Matthew.]

41 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

"Mummer's dragon" can be read more than one way. He could still be true Targaryen, but bankrolled/suppported by mummers Illyrio and Varys. It doesn't have to mean that he's a fake.

Sure, and I think he'd still be the "Mummer's (possessive) dragon" that Quaithe lists in ADWD even if he's legit, but I don't think his inclusion in the "slayer of lies" segment of visions bodes well for his authenticity, and it would also be odd (to me, anyway) if Aegon is the subject of both the "dying prince" and "cloth dragon" visions that occur in short succession, as it would then be redundant visions that imply Aegon VI's death, within a few sentences of one another.

[JNR]

7 hours ago, LynnS said:

So... what was, what might have been and what might yet be. 

Yes, exactly... which is to say, the same sort of things Galadriel shows Frodo in her mirror, in the series GRRM has admitted is his own primary inspiration as a fantasy novelist. 

Those weren't stories Frodo saw.  On the other hand, they weren't necessarily accurate future scenes, either.  As it happens, the scene from the movie that shows Sam enslaved never did come true because the Ring was destroyed.

5 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

Question for the knowledgeable: just where was Prince Rhaegar during the first part of the  Rebellion? And during the arrest and trial of of Brandon and Lord Rickard?

To paraphrase the Dothraki... it is not known. 

Just to show you the impressive extent of the canonical failure to establish the crucially important answer to your question in any sense:

It cannot be shown, using the canon, where either Prince Rhaegar or Lyanna Stark were for a single day of the many months in which they were both missing.

In fact, it can't be shown that they were even together on the same continent at any time during Robert's Rebellion (unless you believe the fapp, which the wise never do).

However, those who ask such questions are wise.  I see your professorship is justly awarded.

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

It does seem likely that we're getting a prophecy for JonCon's Aegon. 

Well, I think it's a fair possibility.  It would rely on GRRM's history repeating itself in remarkable detail... but as you will surely agree, GRRM's history is a stutterer of epic, Porky Pig-like dimensions, that is constantly repeating itself.

1 hour ago, Matthew. said:

No matter who we speculate the figure to be, we can probably find flaws with any interpretation.

Agreed, which goes to show GRRM's remarkable skill at constructing mysteries.  These effects are not easily achieved.

Notice that your sentence, altered in no way, applies perfectly to the question of the KotLT, too.  As will be demonstrated in the next edition of Heresy. 

[Frey family reunion]

10 hours ago, Prof. Cecily said:

There are actually very very few.

So few, I can accept they are deliberately put there.

Again, with WW and TCOTF, who am I to quibble over how the Westerosi ate their salads?

The one I find most jarring is that of a "minotaur" being one of the Dragonstone gargoyles.  It's like running across a temple to Zeus in Valyria.