283/4AC - Ned goes home

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

2 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

 

Pretty sure he's right, 

 

Hi, I'm a woman.  Just so you know. 

[Lord Vance II]

1 minute ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Hi, I'm a woman.  Just so you know. 

Noted. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Just now, Lord Vance II said:

Noted. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

So, was there a stopover at KL or not?

If not, then Eddard could just as well had taken a ship along the West Coast.

The sailing distance from SF to White Harbour or Barrowton is more or less the same, with the western route making it easier to return Dustin's horse.

Based on the passage quoted by @kissdbyfire, and common sense, I'd say the most likely interpretation is that Eddard returned to Winterfell via King's Landing. This passage should be considered as well...

Quote

"What do you say, Ned? Just you and me, two vagabond knights on the kingsroad, our swords at our sides and the gods know what in front of us, and maybe a farmer's daughter or a tavern wench to warm our beds tonight."

"Would that we could," Ned said, "but we have duties now, my liege . . . to the realm, to our children, I to my lady wife and you to your queen. We are not the boys we were."

"You were never the boy you were," Robert grumbled. "More's the pity. And yet there was that one time . . . what was her name, that common girl of yours? Becca? No, she was one of mine, gods love her, black hair and these sweet big eyes, you could drown in them. Yours was . . . Aleena? No. You told me once. Was it Merryl? You know the one I mean, your bastard's mother?"

"Her name was Wylla," Ned replied with cool courtesy, "and I would sooner not speak of her."

"Wylla. Yes." The king grinned. "She must have been a rare wench if she could make Lord Eddard Stark forget his honor, even for an hour. You never told me what she looked like . . . "

Ned's mouth tightened in anger. "Nor will I. Leave it be, Robert, for the love you say you bear me. I dishonored myself and I dishonored Catelyn, in the sight of gods and men."

"Gods have mercy, you scarcely knew Catelyn."

"I had taken her to wife. She was carrying my child."

"You are too hard on yourself, Ned. You always were. Damn it, no woman wants Baelor the Blessed in her bed." He slapped a hand on his knee. "Well, I'll not press you if you feel so strong about it, though I swear, at times you're so prickly you ought to take the hedgehog as your sigil."

Eddard II, Game 12

Although not stated explicitly, I think this suggests that, from Starfall, Eddard had his bannermen march from Storm's End to King’s Landing and met them there. 

[TMIFairy]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

 the grief they had shared over her passing.

Thanks.

This is the sort of thing I was looking for - indeed suggestive of Ned's visit to KL soon after ToJ.

Narrows down the return to the eastern route by sea. Going overland - up the Kings Road - and not popping by Riverrun (or intercepting Catelyun;s party at the Twins/in the Neck) does not make much sense to me.

Any appearance by Jon before "greeting" Catelyn in WF?

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, TMIFairy said:

Thanks.

This is what I was looking for - indeed suggestive of Ned's visit to KL soon after ToJ.

I think so. I think the fact that they made peace over their shared grief implies this happened shortly after Lyanna's death. 

[TMIFairy]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think so. I think the fact that they made peace over their shared grief implies this happened shortly after Lyanna's death. 

Yup.

Balon's Rebellion seems a tad late for them to weep over her death.

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

Yup.

Balon's Rebellion seems a tad late for them to weep over her death.

My thoughts exactly.

Not to mention that, regardless of what happened at the ToJ and the trip to Starfall, Ned left KL to lift the siege at SE. Robert is now king, and I'd find it odd for Ned to not go to KL after the siege had been lifted. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Wasn't the siege lifted after Ned left KL, and before he travelled to Dorne to seek Lyanna though? 

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Wasn't the siege lifted after Ned left KL, and before he travelled to Dorne to seek Lyanna though? 

Yeah. But I think it makes sense for Ned to report back to KL upon lifting the siege. Not just that, but then Lyanna dies, and I don't think Ned would let Robert receive the news from anyone but him regardless of their strained relations at the time. My interpretation is he goes to KL after Starfall and from there he takes ship to return home w/ baby Jon and a wet nurse who may have been Wylla or not. It also makes sense to me that it's from KL that he sends word to Riverrun to tell Cat to head north w/ baby Robb. 

[TMIFairy]

16 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah. But I think it makes sense for Ned to report back to KL upon lifting the siege.

Are you suggesting:

KL to SE to lift siege,  back to KL to report, then to ToJ? Not that it makes a difference over KL to SE to lift siege, then to ToJ, thinking of it. Although it would add two-three weeks of travel time.

As to the rest it looks good:

SF to KL by ship makes sense, as it would be as fast (if not faster) than by horse. And more comfy

And again KL to WF by ship is the fastest route. And allows Ned to beat Catelyn to WF.

So, there is no info on Ned parading a babe around KL?

BTW - the Dustin stallion surely is a well traveled horse by the time he gets back to Barrowton -

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, TMIFairy said:

Are you suggesting:

KL to SE to lift siege,  back to KL to report, then to ToJ?

As to the rest it looks good:

SF to KL by ship makes sense, as it would be as fast (if not faster) than by horse. And more comfy

And again KL to WF by ship is the fastest route. And allows Ned to beat Catelyn to WF.

So, there is no info on Ned parading a babe around KL?

BTW - the Dustin stallion surely is a well traveled horse by the time he gets back to Barrowton -

No, no. From KL to SE. From there to ToJ and Starfall, then back to KL. 

[TMIFairy]

OK - clear now

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

Are you suggesting:

KL to SE to lift siege,  back to KL to report, then to ToJ? Not that it makes a difference over KL to SE to lift siege, then to ToJ, thinking of it. Although it would add two-three weeks of travel time.

As to the rest it looks good:

SF to KL by ship makes sense, as it would be as fast (if not faster) than by horse. And more comfy

And again KL to WF by ship is the fastest route. And allows Ned to beat Catelyn to WF.

So, there is no info on Ned parading a babe around KL?

BTW - the Dustin stallion surely is a well traveled horse by the time he gets back to Barrowton -

Yeah, I agree that by ship would be the best way but as you say, there's the horse. Might be just a "slip of the pen" from Martin, silly minor mistakes, like Renly's eye colour or Jeyne's hips. Then again, it might not, and the man is so infuriatingly deliberate w/ some things. Another head-scratcher, what else is new.

As to Ned in KL, knowing Ned and the situation he was in - on poor terms w/ Robert over dead baby Targs; dead sister and has to tell Robert something, w/ his dead sister's half Targ baby that he has to claim as his own (maybe) and hide from Robert at all costs, etc - I'm sure he would have been incredibly discreet. That said, I've always suspected there are more people who know, and if I had to pick one, it'd be Varys. 

Hmm. Forget first paragraph, plenty ships carry horses. Duh. 

[SFDanny]

11 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

If this was covered somewhere please point to pertinent thread.

What exactly were Ned's movements after the Sack?

I understand that he went to Storm's End to lift the siege, then to the Tower of Joy, Starfall and ... and then what?

Did he show up in KL on his way to Winterfell? Did he have a baby with him then?

Or is the next thing we know of his movements after Starfall - "Ned is in Winterfell with Jon and Wylla"?

ADDED LATER FOR CLARITY:

What do the books say?

 

This has been debated for years. I will try to find some good discussions to link to when I get a chance, but the short answer is we know little about Ned's return from Starfall. There are a few things to keep in mind that may or may not give some clues.

1 - We know from the World book that Robert's marriage to Cersei takes place in 284 AC. Given all we know about Robert's professed love for Lyanna, it makes sense to ask the question if Robert would have agreed to this marriage if he hadn't already heard the news of Lyanna's death? Add this to the language used to describe how Robert and Ned are reconciled by their grief over the death of Lyanna , and what we get is support for the idea Ned stopped in King's Landing on his return trip to Winterfell sometime in 284 before the wedding.

2 - Given the fact Robert tells us that he never met Wylla, it seems unlikely the unnamed wet nurse Catelyn meets in Winterfell upon her arrival is Wylla. At the very least it is unlikely Wylla went to King's Landing. 

3 - the rumors Catelyn hears concerning Lady Ashara seem to point to Ned first returning to his troops before he goes anyplace else from Starfall. My bet is he meets them where he left them - Storm's End.

So, no, there is no definitive story in the books or from Martin on the details on Ned return from Starfall. 

[TMIFairy]

SFDanny - thank you

[Shmedricko]

GRRM said we'd likely learn more about this in future books:

Quote

Second, when Ned Stark and Howland Reed returned North from Dorne after the events at the Tower of Joy, etc. were they completely alone during that journey, or were they accompanied by some household guards, etc. for security?

You'll likely learn more about Ned's homecoming in future books. It's a long way from Dorne to Winterfell, a journey of months. More than that I'd rather not reveal just now.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Neds_Return_After_the_War

[SFDanny]

2 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

SFDanny - thank you

You're welcome. I hope it helps

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

12 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yeah. But I think it makes sense for Ned to report back to KL upon lifting the siege. Not just that, but then Lyanna dies, and I don't think Ned would let Robert receive the news from anyone but him regardless of their strained relations at the time. My interpretation is he goes to KL after Starfall and from there he takes ship to return home w/ baby Jon and a wet nurse who may have been Wylla or not. It also makes sense to me that it's from KL that he sends word to Riverrun to tell Cat to head north w/ baby Robb. 

Yes, that works too. 

I think though it is possible that Ned would be too cautious to take Jon to KL? So maybe there is a possibility that he entrusted the Danes withJon whilst he took the news of Lyanna's death to Robert, which is an intriguing idea and adds weight to the whole WTF is going on with House Dayne and their seemingly OTT adoration of Ned Stark what with naming Ned Dayne for him (One presumes) and the whole story regarding Wylla that is the rumour in Starfall? 

Interestingly Cat says she found Jon and his wet nurse on her arrival at WF, does she say Ned was there too? Might Wylla have taken Jon North alone? with Ned travelling to KL to tell Robert of Lyanna's death on Lord Dustins horse?  Maybe the fact his wet nurse was dornish was what made Cat wonder about his mother maybe being Ashara? 

Just some thoughts. 

[TMIFairy]

Shmedricko

- thanks for that factoid.

 

The Weirwoods Eyes

IMO the Dayne's adore Ned as he gave them Dawn.

Either a very stupid move - it's' a cool, possibly magical sword, and rightfully his as spoils of war.

Or inspired network building.

Or - if Jon is Ashara's by Brandon - he used the sword to "buy" the boy from the unnamed Lord Dayne.

He also prepared the bones of the raper/kidnapper's accomplice - a rite he failed to perform for his northern companions, something which I cannot wrap my mind around.

IMO it unlikely that Wylla ever had been at WF - Arya Underfoot, mingling with servants, had never heard about her. Even if almost fifteen years later her name could had been forgotten, I'd expect the term "Dornish wet nurse" to crop up in conversation.

Ned might had been of of WF when Cateflyn arrived - he could had nipped out to Barrowton on the "horse delivery" errand. On been out on some other "lordly business".