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Okay, NOW Have We Seen The Most Wildly Unrealistic Thing Ever on GoT???

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Long distance travel in half a episode is no problem, as "one episode" is not a measure unit inside the story. The problem comes when it's measured against other events inside the story. The stranded wight capture team shares the same time frame as Dani's coming to rescue.

So it's either
a. Dani takes a few days to arrive, but then it's absurd that the stranded team doesn't freeze to death and that the wight didn't move, OR
b. The travel to Dragonstone is just a quick trip. But if everything in TV-Westeros is so close, it wouldn't have been a problem for anybody (or their representative) to just take a few days to travel to the Wall and check this Army of the Dead. Drogon has even passenger seats now.
   

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2 hours ago, SafeFromWinter said:

Lakes don't freeze very fast... they must have been on that little island for a week or something, at least much more than the single night the episode shows. No wonder they got bored.

I've done some looking into this issue, and from what I understand the amount of time it takes for a body of water to freeze depends largely on (a) the temperature outside, (b) whether it's sunny or cloudy, and (c) whether it is snowing or not.  And even then, of course, the times are different depending on how thick the ice we are talking about is.

In this case, it seems to me that the ice could have frozen enough for the wight army to walk across in perhaps 2 days or less.

On the other hand, of course, IF it took an entire week, then that raises other serious problems, such as questions about how Jon & Company survived under such conditions for so long, especially with no fire and presumably very little food or water in sub-zero temperatures, and without even any hats, no less.

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1 hour ago, 7th-key said:

Long distance travel in half a episode is no problem, as "one episode" is not a measure unit inside the story. The problem comes when it's measured against other events inside the story. The stranded wight capture team shares the same time frame as Dani's coming to rescue.

So it's either
a. Dani takes a few days to arrive, but then it's absurd that the stranded team doesn't freeze to death and that the wight didn't move, OR
b. The travel to Dragonstone is just a quick trip. But if everything in TV-Westeros is so close, it wouldn't have been a problem for anybody (or their representative) to just take a few days to travel to the Wall and check this Army of the Dead. Drogon has even passenger seats now.
   

Basically, yeah.

It's like a zero sum game.  The more we fiddle with and adjust one variable (in theory, in an attempt to make sense of what happened), the more out of whack another variable becomes.

Bottom line, in my opinion, is that this stuff just can't be reconciled, not even close.

 

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2 hours ago, SafeFromWinter said:

Lakes don't freeze very fast... they must have been on that little island for a week or something, at least much more than the single night the episode shows. No wonder they got bored.

But we're in the heart of Winter, north of the wall - the god damn ice should have been a meter thick in the first place. Not 5 inches in a conveniently placed ring around the island.

The whole scene, and the whole plot to set up the scene, is just dumb beyond all reason. There are literally a thousand other ways to have the same outcome (Dany and Jon get closer, and the NK gets a dragon).

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On 8/21/2017 at 8:22 AM, LucyMormont said:

Well, to be fair, they were  the rest of the day and the whole night up there in that rock

How is that being "fair"? Do you have any ideas of the distances involved?

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13 hours ago, Cron said:

HARRR!!

Great stuff, I loved reading it all!!!

So, what are you suggesting, the possibility that there were women up there (possibly live, possibly undead) that the Magnificent 7 were having sex with on that rock in order to stay alive????

AHAH! Crazy !!

I don't think so... and I don't know what to say... But yeah, it just looks weird... 

One more thing ... When they were walking they had something I don't know how to call it...

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15 hours ago, ramla said:

Homing Pigeons aren't Ravens tho. Ravens aren't as fast. Maybe they are in the books but to fly like 1800 miles nonstop at 50 - 90 mph, is not realistic. It would take about 3 or 4 days altogether for all this to take place. Not counting, the time it would take for Gendry, a Southerner who's never seen snow, to make it to back to the wall.

Remember The scene in episode 5...

Bran was at the God's Woods with the maester and was using the ravens to spy the Wights...

Those raven flew from Winterfell to where the Night King was within "seconds?" Maybe minutes... Maybe more... We don't know right? But I think they were trying to show us something... Maybe that the Night King has good anti-viruses :lol: and also to show us the distance or the time ravens can take to carry a message... Think about that... Plus, who said it took less than a day? It took them days... Obviously, they should have died... Especially for people who have never been that North... Clegane has been to Winterfell... But Beric, I don't know... Jorah is a northerner... And Gendry, who has never been north is the one they sent back to eastwatch ... Trying to get rid or trying to keep him safe? :dunno:

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13 hours ago, ramla said:

If you are correct, is D&D saying the undead army's been marching Directly from Hardhome for 2 seasons and only got to wherever the Mag7 got to it that time? Yet Gendry Bolt can make the same distance in a day? lol

I never heard of anyone in the show saying that Gendry made it there in a day...

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11 hours ago, YoungGriff89 said:

I haven't seen anybody point out that Cersei clarified in the pilot that King's Landing was a month away from Winterfell when an entire royal convoy was taking the Kingsroad.  What that actually does for the distances in the context of this episode I'm not sure, but there is some metric to compare.  

I did... I said that when they arrived at WF in one episode after being seen in KL 10 minutes before, she said "We have been riding for months my love... Surely the deads can wait"... I don't think the distance is the problem... The problem is if they spent so much time there, then they should have been dead... Since Tormund said that the best way to keep their balls from freezing up there was to have sex... He said they had to keep moving... But I don't recall seeing them moving... They were standing up and looking at each other... 

Perhaps, they used Beric's sword to keep them warm? who knows? Do they always have to show us EVERY single thing to help us understand...? But if in fact they don't want to, at least, make is plausible and realistic...

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17 hours ago, Cron said:

Recently, Dany basically said that if she just goes north, Cersei will take the lands Dany has. Uhhhh... (a) WHAT lands? Dragonstone??

I guess Dragonstone and Casterly Rock.  Which she can easily recapture if and when they win the fight against the NK.

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1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

I never heard of anyone in the show saying that Gendry made it there in a day...

We didn't see Jon's crew camping either, so they could have traveled for a day only. The only hint of their trip taking longer is that they see the mountains which on the map are far beyond the forest.

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2 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

I never heard of anyone in the show saying that Gendry made it there in a day...

You mean Gendry's run back to Eastwatch required more than a day? That would explain why it took so long for him to see the Wall. Unfortunately, it makes the whole thing more ridiculous.

It extends the total time beyond most people's reckoning. Worse, it means a Southern boy who'd never even seen snow let alone been beyond the Wall--nor so far as we know has much outdoor experience, or any skill at tracking or camping--made a multi-day trek across a frozen tundra on foot with no map or guidance beyond his memory of the trip out there. Most of it in the dark. 

He probably would have fallen dead after 20 minutes in reality. 

Edited by darmody

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The writers have to make choices. The options are limited to something like:
1 - Write everything so it happened in a smaller geographic area.
2 - Write a lot of filler to give the characters time to travel.
3 - Show the events in a non-linear chronological sequence.
4 - Use a montage to condense time.
5 - Cheat, use artistic license to prioritise the story over logistics, knowing that the audience are smart enough to suspend their disbelief.

1 limits the story telling considerable. We would see lots of stuff happening only in King's Landing and Winterfell and not much anywhere else. The Epicness of the show is diminished and it feels like a cheap school play.

2 adds a lot to the budget for little in return. It also would prompt many complaints of "too much filler".  Sure this filler could be interesting world / character building but at this stage in the story when we are into end-game we don't really need any more world / character building.

And the show has used 3, 4 and 5 quite a bit, more 5 as the show has gotten closer to end-game. Even GRRM himself has said not to look too carefully at the timescales of events in the books as he hasn't put much effort into ensuring that timings work consistently. People have spent far too much time trying to put a timeframe around the sequence of events in Robert's Rebellion in order to try to prove various theories like R+L=D or whatever. This is pointless as GRRM doesn't have exact time and dates for everyting.

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13 minutes ago, RedShirt47 said:

1 limits the story telling considerable. We would see lots of stuff happening only in King's Landing and Winterfell and not much anywhere else. The Epicness of the show is diminished and it feels like a cheap school play.

You're describing Season One, except it was nothing like a high school play. It was more soap opera-ish than later seasons, admittedly. But the "epic" sequences like the Battle of Tiny Rock Island haven't been nearly as exciting to me lately as, for instance, Jaime and Ned's brothel duel. Heck, Jon and Mormont's fight with the zombie was tenser than the Six versus 100,000 (or whatever) plus dragons we saw this episode. 

I did like Blackwater Bay, the Battle of the Wall, Hardhome, etc. But there have been rapidly diminishing returns. 

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33 minutes ago, darmody said:

You mean Gendry's run back to Eastwatch required more than a day? That would explain why it took so long for him to see the Wall. Unfortunately, it makes the whole thing more ridiculous.

It extends the total time beyond most people's reckoning. Worse, it means a Southern boy who'd never even seen snow let alone been beyond the Wall--nor so far as we know has much outdoor experience, or any skill at tracking or camping--made a multi-day trek across a frozen tundra on foot with no map or guidance beyond his memory of the trip out there. Most of it in the dark. 

He probably would have fallen dead after 20 minutes in reality. 

Also he was running. You can't run that fast for that long, especially in those conditions. No way was it more than a day.

 

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29 minutes ago, RedShirt47 said:

The writers have to make choices. The options are limited to something like:
1 - Write everything so it happened in a smaller geographic area.
2 - Write a lot of filler to give the characters time to travel.
3 - Show the events in a non-linear chronological sequence.
4 - Use a montage to condense time.
5 - Cheat, use artistic license to prioritise the story over logistics, knowing that the audience are smart enough to suspend their disbelief.

1 limits the story telling considerable. We would see lots of stuff happening only in King's Landing and Winterfell and not much anywhere else. The Epicness of the show is diminished and it feels like a cheap school play.

2 adds a lot to the budget for little in return. It also would prompt many complaints of "too much filler".  Sure this filler could be interesting world / character building but at this stage in the story when we are into end-game we don't really need any more world / character building.

And the show has used 3, 4 and 5 quite a bit, more 5 as the show has gotten closer to end-game. Even GRRM himself has said not to look too carefully at the timescales of events in the books as he hasn't put much effort into ensuring that timings work consistently. People have spent far too much time trying to put a timeframe around the sequence of events in Robert's Rebellion in order to try to prove various theories like R+L=D or whatever. This is pointless as GRRM doesn't have exact time and dates for everyting.

There's a difference between nitpicking (like "why haven't you included Lady Stoneheart?") and show runners saying "just fuck it" and let the ravens go at the speed of an airplane or lamborghini and dragons breaking sound barrier. The latter is not a 'time frame' problem.

Edited by plastic throne

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16 minutes ago, darmody said:

You're describing Season One, except it was nothing like a high school play. It was more soap opera-ish than later seasons, admittedly.

Season one had time for world building and character building. We're in end-game now. The show has very limited time especially as we have fewer episodes per season. Of course I'd rather they had more budget and resources to have more episodes but they don't.

They're prioritising story over logistics and I'm fine with that. It's their artistic license to do so. Limiting the story to fit annoying logistics would be more realistic but less interesting.

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3 hours ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

AHAH! Crazy !!

I don't think so... and I don't know what to say... But yeah, it just looks weird... 

One more thing ... When they were walking they had something I don't know how to call it...

"They had something"?

What do you mean, that someone was carrying something, and you don't know what it was?

If so, who was carrying it, and what did it look like?  Shape? Size?

 

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

Oh, is that an issue??

I didn't know, seriously.

By the way, I like your name, and find it intriguing..

Is it inspired by, or related to, Val?  I liked her a lot in the books, and was REALLY disappointed she was left out of the show (I was looking forward to seeing her, but then, there are quite a few other characters I was looking forward to seeing who were left out, too)

Or is the name your own device, unconnected to Val?

Haha! It IS an issue, yes. Remember seeing Theon shave Ramsey with a straight razor? Now try to imagine a woman doing that...there. Nope. lol

Yes, I loved Val, she was one of my favorite, albeit very brief so far, characters. But instead of a "Wildling Princess," I'd rather be a queen. 

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