Heresy 202 and still going

[LynnS]

On 9/27/2017 at 5:51 AM, Tucu said:

The cold iron from the tales could be a reference to meteoric iron that was used in small quantity for thousands of years before the discovery of methods to smelt iron ore.

This could explain its presence during the Long Night and it relates to the Dayne's using a meteor (and some magic) to create Dawn.

I don't ever recall a discussion about the pale swords of the Others.  I've always assumed they were made of ice.  Considering the similarities between the longswords of the Others and the Palestone Sword of the Daynes; I'm not so sure.  I think they might come from the same source.

In the prologue, they are described as:

- pale swords (longswords)

- a shard of crystal so thin they all but disappear when seen edge on

- as thin and sharp as a razor

- translucent, moonlight glimmers off it's surface

- a feint blue light playing around the edge of the sword

- not forged from any human metal

In spite of it's thin construction; the sword is incredibly strong, withstanding repeated volleys between Waymar and the Other until the sword becomes alive with light and Waymar's sword is shattered like a lightening blasted tree raining shards of splinters and needles.

The build-up of light and the 'crystal' structure of the sword seems to imply that the sword builds up an electric charge after repeated contact with Waymar's sword until it's discharged into Waymer's sword.  A contact that emits a high pitch sound at the edge of hearing, that Will describes as a scream.   The Other's sword sounds like a piezoelectric crystal.

It also sounds very much like the dawn sword recalling Ned's memory of the sword alive with light. 

A shard is something that is split off a larger object and so I wonder if the Dawn Sword and the Other's swords come from a lightening blasted stone tree and these swords are splinters and needles from that source.

Returning to bronze once again; that metal is at the bottom of the list for electrical conductivity.  So perhaps bronze has a slight advantage over other metals if you are facing an Other with a pale sword. 

I'm also guessing that a bronze sword is a softer, less brittle metal than steel and can withstand repeated volleys a little better than other metals.  So perhaps the Thenns have a practical reason for arming themselves with bronze since they know a confrontation with the Others is coming.

[SirArthur]

Each time I read bronze and electricity I think of Storm's End. I don't know why. Like it's a giant lightning rod or faraday cage. It's really weird. 

 

[LynnS]

28 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

Each time I read bronze and electricity I think of Storm's End. I don't know why. Like it's a giant lightning rod or faraday cage. It's really weird. 

 

I like it!

[Black Crow]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

I don't ever recall a discussion about the pale swords of the Others.  I've always assumed they were made of ice.  Considering the similarities between the longswords of the Others and the Palestone Sword of the Daynes; I'm not so sure.  I think they might come from the same source.

In the prologue, they are described as:

- pale swords (longswords)

- a shard of crystal so thin they all but disappear when seen edge on

- as thin and sharp as a razor

- translucent, moonlight glimmers off it's surface

- a feint blue light playing around the edge of the sword

- not forged from any human metal

In spite of it's thin construction; the sword is incredibly strong, withstanding repeated volleys between Waymar and the Other until the sword becomes alive with light and Waymar's sword is shattered like a lightening blasted tree raining shards of splinters and needles.

The build-up of light and the 'crystal' structure of the sword seems to imply that the sword builds up an electric charge after repeated contact with Waymar's sword until it's discharged into Waymer's sword.  A contact that emits a high pitch sound at the edge of hearing, that Will describes as a scream.   The Other's sword sounds like a piezoelectric crystal.

It also sounds very much like the dawn sword recalling Ned's memory of the sword alive with light. 

A shard is something that is split off a larger object and so I wonder if the Dawn Sword and the Other's swords come from a lightening blasted stone tree and these swords are splinters and needles from that source.

Returning to bronze once again; that metal is at the bottom of the list for electrical conductivity.  So perhaps bronze has a slight advantage over other metals if you are facing an Other with a pale sword. 

I'm also guessing that a bronze sword is a softer, less brittle metal than steel and can withstand repeated volleys a little better than other metals.  So perhaps the Thenns have a practical reason for arming themselves with bronze since they know a confrontation with the Others is coming.

As quoted earlier in this very thread GRRM very explicitly and with no ambiguity declared that the swords were made of ice.

[LynnS]

14 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

As quoted earlier in this very thread GRRM very explicitly and with no ambiguity declared that the swords were made of ice.

Well I must have missed that.  Swords not made of ordinary ice then... swords that have the structure and properties of a crystal.

[Tucu]

I wonder what are the swords of Mel's shadows made of. They seem to be as effective as the WW weapons

Quote

All the candles were guttering out and the cold was thick around her. Something was moving through green darkness, something foul and horrible was hurtling toward her king. She wanted to protect him, but her limbs felt stiff and frozen, and it took more strength than she had just to lift her hand. And when the shadow sword sliced through the green steel gorget and the blood began to flow, she saw that the dying king was not Renly after all but Jaime Lannister, and she had failed him

 

[Black Crow]

On ‎24‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:07 AM, Black Crow said:

 

 

http://web.archive.o...s3/00103009.htm

 

Shaw: Do you know what substance an Other sword is made from.

Martin: Ice. But not like regular old ice. The Others can do things with ice that we can't imagine and make substances of it.

 

 

 

[LynnS]

 

[Human Metal]

6 hours ago, LynnS said:

- not forged from any human metal

Confirmed.

[SirArthur]

The paradox mystery of forging ice. 

[Black Crow]

Perhaps the original Stark family sword melted 

[SirArthur]

 

18 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

Perhaps the original Stark family sword melted 

admist Blackwater Bay's salt and King's landing's smoke. It is the ice-cold whiskey glazed ham come again.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Tucu said:

I wonder what are the swords of Mel's shadows made of. They seem to be as effective as the WW weapons

 

That's right.  It's an extension of the shadow.

46 minutes ago, Human Metal said:

Confirmed.

Forged with inhuman ice.

10 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

Perhaps the original Stark family sword melted 

Sam's encounter:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Samwell I

The fear that filled Sam then was worse than any fear he had ever felt before, and Samwell Tarly knew every kind of fear. "Mother have mercy," he wept, forgetting the old gods in his terror. "Father protect me, oh oh . . ." His fingers found his dagger and he filled his hand with that.

The wights had been slow clumsy things, but the Other was light as snow on the wind. It slid away from Paul's axe, armor rippling, and its crystal sword twisted and spun and slipped between the iron rings of Paul's mail, through leather and wool and bone and flesh. It came out his back with a hissssssssssss and Sam heard Paul say, "Oh," as he lost the axe. Impaled, his blood smoking around the sword, the big man tried to reach his killer with his hands and almost had before he fell. The weight of him tore the strange pale sword from the Other's grip.

 

Is it the WW that twists and spins or is it the sword that twists and spins into another shape so it can pierce between the iron rings like a needle?  The WW is disarmed  but Sam and Grenn never examine Small Paul for the sword afterwords. 

 

[SirArthur]

So ... iron is not helping against WW swords. But the Others hate it and the iron swords are on the statues in Winterfell crypt. But not on the tombs ? Do we know about swords on tombs ?

[Black Crow]

The implication is that the statues are guarding the entrances to the tombs

[SirArthur]

I'm thinking more about our soul movement/iron blocks the movement theory. 

And regarding small Paul and Waymar Royce: both had chainmail and were turned. I doubt iron is preventing anything. 

[Brad Stark]

Wights are just zombie like bodies, possibly being controlled by someone,  but without much thought of their own.  Almost like a warg skin changing a dead person.

If the Starks can come back, they'd have to be something more.  Otherwise they'd be the same as everyone else.   No one put iron on the peasants in their grave.  What good would binding the Starks Lords do if they were the same?  Now instead of fighting an army of 10,000 skeletons, we only need to worry about 9,900.

[SirArthur]

So if warging is not the movement of the soul, how dows it work ?

The point I want to get at is that the sword across the knee is more a gesture the Others or other Northeners would respect and that is the point why they are used: "This crypt is not for you and any guestright given ends at this point." And the iron (sword) is just tradition. Much like iron and bronze are the metals of winter and we have no real clue why. 

[Black Crow]

So far as we can tell warging and skinchanging are movements of the soul, or as I put it earlier "body-hopping".

There is, as we're told in the Varamyr prologue an end to it when the original body and bones goes west and the soul is trapped to fade away in the most recent host or the host with the strongest attachment.

What I've been suggesting recently is that this fate, or at least the fading away, can be avoided by creating an entirely new and virtually immortal body by magic; whether of "fire made flesh" [a dragon] or ice made flesh; a white walker.

[LynnS]

18 hours ago, Black Crow said:

So far as we can tell warging and skinchanging are movements of the soul, or as I put it earlier "body-hopping".

There is, as we're told in the Varamyr prologue an end to it when the original body and bones goes west and the soul is trapped to fade away in the most recent host or the host with the strongest attachment.

What I've been suggesting recently is that this fate, or at least the fading away, can be avoided by creating an entirely new and virtually immortal body by magic; whether of "fire made flesh" [a dragon] or ice made flesh; a white walker.

So potentially there are six WW dopplegangers, the same number as the Stark kids.  Although Rob and Grey Wind die and Sam slays one of the WW, that leaves five.   Should they lose their weirwolf, the next stop is their ice double?  Is that why the WW's are faceless because they haven't been given a face yet?

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Prologue

Ser Waymar met it with steel. When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain. Royce checked a second blow, and a third, then fell back a step. Another flurry of blows, and he fell back again.

 

Behind him, to right, to left, all around him, the watchers stood patient, faceless, silent, the shifting patterns of their delicate armor making them all but invisible in the wood. Yet they made no move to interfere.