Crazy Ex-Girlfriend S4 - We Want to Be Here [spoilers]

[RhaenysBee]

7 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

They are not mutually exclusive, it is just that Rebecca wants more modern lyrics in theatre and not ones that spread harmful messages.

As to how it is possible that people shape their lives according to pop culture ... I think it just builds up gradually, all the messages you get from media somehow build an idea of how the world should function and one unconsciously acts it out. It is not like one sees one movie and decides to act like the characters in it.

Also, part of Rebecca's disorder is that she does not have a clear sense of identity, which makes her more susceptible (did I use that word correctly?) to messages she gets from the outside world about how she should be like, how she should look like and behave. Add to that a lack of a positive parental figure to shape her behaviour and all the harmful messages she got from her mother ... I don't see it as unrealistic that she would be more likely to develop weird ideas about how she should be.

Maybe not living in West Covina makes you look 10 years younger.

Don't think about it too hard, too too hard. Valencia will propose and Beth will say yes, I am pretty sure this is what is going to happen.

Yeah, you’re probably right about that, i just think it’s so very exaggerated. Then again, that’s not really the topic’s fault (being influenced by pop culture) but the way it was handled, especially within the tiny window of screen time it was given. They might have been able to pull it off in a more realistic way if they spent a few episodes building it up instead of 15 minutes of I love theatre, it’s all my dreams, no wait, musical lyrics aren’t modern enough, theatre is such a letdown.  

well don’t tell that to me, tell it to Naomi.she’ll be happy to know she’s doing everything she can to stay youthful. 

[HexMachina]

14 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

They are not mutually exclusive, it is just that Rebecca wants more modern lyrics in theatre and not ones that spread harmful messages.

As to how it is possible that people shape their lives according to pop culture ... I think it just builds up gradually, all the messages you get from media somehow build an idea of how the world should function and one unconsciously acts it out. It is not like one sees one movie and decides to act like the characters in it.

Also, part of Rebecca's disorder is that she does not have a clear sense of identity, which makes her more susceptible (did I use that word correctly?) to messages she gets from the outside world about how she should be like, how she should look like and behave. Add to that a lack of a positive parental figure to shape her behaviour and all the harmful messages she got from her mother ... I don't see it as unrealistic that she would be more likely to develop weird ideas about how she should be.

Maybe not living in West Covina makes you look 10 years younger.

Don't think about it too hard, too too hard. Valencia will propose and Beth will say yes, I am pretty sure this is what is going to happen.

Wait ... what? How is that a realistic requirement for a course? How does that work? You cannot just open a business like that while being a student. Not everybody has their father's failed Italian restaurant handy ...

Hey ho indeed!

I only saw Heather's giant purple ... glass or whatever that was?

Ooooo, which scene was that? I didn't catch it!

Wondering if maybe this is a cultural difference. Setting up a business isnt all that onerous here or the US

[Buckwheat]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:35 PM, RhaenysBee said:

Yeah, you’re probably right about that, i just think it’s so very exaggerated. Then again, that’s not really the topic’s fault (being influenced by pop culture) but the way it was handled, especially within the tiny window of screen time it was given. They might have been able to pull it off in a more realistic way if they spent a few episodes building it up instead of 15 minutes of I love theatre, it’s all my dreams, no wait, musical lyrics aren’t modern enough, theatre is such a letdown.  

well don’t tell that to me, tell it to Naomi.she’ll be happy to know she’s doing everything she can to stay youthful. 

Yep, I cannot for the life of me imagine why they thought putting everything relating to the theatre in only one episode. This was built up for so long and it does not make narrative sense to handle it like that.

On 3/26/2019 at 12:34 AM, HelenaExMachina said:

Wondering if maybe this is a cultural difference. Setting up a business isnt all that onerous here or the US

Maybe. I just am not sure how that can work with students. Setting up a business and having it grow successful takes years, no? Why open a restaurant only for one day (the way I understand) to close it immediately after you graduate? And how does a poor student who does not have the starting capital do it?

[RhaenysBee]

Hmm. I did enjoy this episode, I just know that I’m going to hate the next. 

The bathroom song reprise was very funny. Rebecca stalking dr Akopian was also funny.

Paula is very annoying and I really want somebody to knock her off her high horse. I’m quite sure that’s not going to happen in the remaining two episodes. 

Josh and Nathaniel both came up with gorgeous, not pretentious, personal dates. Josh’s date couldn’t have been anything else, but a reprise of their love story and it was still a fun-filled surprise. It was nicely done that Nathanial’s date turned out amazing in spite of the mess up. Greg’s non-date date was predictable (in terms of the narrative) and I am going to really really really hate if Rebecca ends up choosing him because she had an amazing time with him even on a “non-date”. I mean Greg reduced himself to scheming with the salmon (I don’t care it was Hector’s influence) and then the sheer luck of Rebecca’s anti perfect date mood was what landed him the success. She has had fun informal fun and connection with both Nathaniel and Josh too, and Greg is too much of an egoistic shitface to have ever done much for Rebecca. Yes it’s important to be yourself in a relationship, but relationships also take effort and compromise and sometimes giving up your own momentary  selfish interest to make the other person happy. I can’t recall a time when Greg did that. Nathaniel and Josh both had done so. I don’t have a perference between the two, in fact, I wanted Rebecca to end up with “theater” (which seems to have been completely dropped and forgotten, which is... let’s not even get into that). 

Well I’m very very curious how they are going to wrap this up. 

 

[HexMachina]

Waited three years for a WhiJo song? Was it worth the wait?

why yes, lady sir, (I think the word is just ma’am) it totally was

 

[Buckwheat]

8 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Waited three years for a WhiJo song? Was it worth the wait?

why yes, lady sir, (I think the word is just ma’am) it totally was

 

This was such an amazing song. I love it. Also WOOOOOOW ... Paula's tapdancing. I have really wanted to do that, and even just that short part is sooooo great.

It looks framed like she is going to choose Greg, she seemed to be most relaxed with him and kept touching him, while with the other two it just felt like she was somehow going through the motions of what a date should be like. Still, it cannot be Greg ... she boinked his dad, or whatever the word AJ used was.

Rebecca + theatre is obviously the way it should go, but that plotline seems to have been dropped completely, despite the fact that Rebecca was the happiest we have ever seen her correcting that song.

And Deborah! I really liked this opening!

[SpaceChampion]

I wouldn't care for a "her true luv was theatre all along!" storyline, so I'm glad that's done and over.

Yeah, I don't know who Rebecca should choose, but not Greg.  They'd just get divorced in 2 years (if they got married at all).  So realistically that's who is she is going to choose. 

Did you paused to read the death pool?  Nathaniel and Greg dying of loneliness were two of the bets.

[Buckwheat]

9 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

I wouldn't care for a "her true luv was theatre all along!" storyline, so I'm glad that's done and over.

Yeah, I don't know who Rebecca should choose, but not Greg.  They'd just get divorced in 2 years (if they got married at all).  So realistically that's who is she is going to choose. 

Did you paused to read the death pool?  Nathaniel and Greg dying of loneliness were two of the bets.

I think it very odd that this storyline is over so quickly, because in season 1 it was shown to be very important (the last time Rebecca was truly happy was the summer camp where she acted, Whale is a Metaphor, if I could travel to the nearest planet, I would see a play) and in the episode in the morgue, finding the audition call was framed as a life-changing event. It just doesn't make narrative sense that it would all come to nothing.

So, the options are ...

- Josh: she stalked him, lied to him, caused his break up with Valencia, got him fired from his job, spied on him when he had sex with other girls ... etc. etc. etc. It is unrealistic that he even wants to talk to her after everything she's done to him. Also, there was that moment of insight, "Josh is irrelevant", which was also a title of a whole episode.

- Nathaniel: she broke up with him SO, SO many times. He had a whole episode from his point of view devoted to his getting over her, and it ended with him saying he is ready to really move on this time. Even earlier, "Nathaniel is Irrelevant". Also, they bring out the worst in each other (cheating on Mona, trying to ruin Josh's family). Also, he does not understand her at all, I don't think reading her childhood diary changes that.

- Greg: the first time they went out together, she was using him to get information about Josh. Similar dynamic continued throughout season 1 and 2 - he was second place, good company when something went wrong with Josh. Greg even knew that, just before You Stupid Bitch he spelled it out. Also, they were apart from each other for 2 years with no contact - the normal thing here would be to get over each other. As soon as they rekindled something, the same scenario happened (first season - taco date/fourth season - Raging Waters). Also, she slept with his father. They decided to get tacos! in the last episode! Not good, tacos are not good for this couple.

In conclusion ... none of the above should even be an option. Neither realistically nor narratively.

 

I have a semi-related question for the native English speakers. I had a native English speaker tell me that the words starting with "anti-" are pronounced with a diphthong, as in "antay-". In the Antidepressants song, however, I clearly hear them sing "antidepressants" more with an "i", like "antee-" or "anty-" (I don't really know how to write it, just ... not a diphthong. So which is correct? Is that a British/American difference, or a standard/slang language difference?

[Heartofice]

13 minutes ago, Buckwheat said:

I have a semi-related question for the native English speakers. I had a native English speaker tell me that the words starting with "anti-" are pronounced with a diphthong, as in "antay-". In the Antidepressants song, however, I clearly hear them sing "antidepressants" more with an "i", like "antee-" or "anty-" (I don't really know how to write it, just ... not a diphthong. So which is correct? Is that a British/American difference, or a standard/slang language difference?

Here in Britain we tend to pronounce it Antee and in the US its more like Ant-ay. Just one of those peculiarities.. don't get me started on how they pronounce Aluminium! 

[HexMachina]

The theatre thing actually makes a very good point. We often think of things we loved in childhood with nostalgia and longing. But just because we loved it as a childmdoesnt mean it will live up to expectations as adults. I have no doubt Rebecca will continue to enjoy theatre, but having it be the andwer to all her problems is just as bad as her relying on romantic love to answer all her problems. Her recognising the issues around theatre was an important step for her.

eta; cant wait for the concert after the finale. They filmed it last week so thats officially the end of Crazy Ex filming!

[SpaceChampion]

Rebecca struggles most with having a sense of identity that is healthy.  Seeking out a relationship or a job that is her whole identity can't be what this is building towards.  TBH I relate.  But I haven't figured out an end goal for the show or mine own life.  Maybe that's the point -- seeking meaning in our values and passions, but not being attached to outcomes -- the happily ever after mirage.

 

[Buckwheat]

19 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Here in Britain we tend to pronounce it Antee and in the US its more like Ant-ay. Just one of those peculiarities.. don't get me started on how they pronounce Aluminium! 

Thank you! So I guess they are singing it in a more British way.

The theatre thing: I know that things don't live up to expectation as adults and we end up finding problematic sides of things we used to love and also that theatre cannot be all of her identity ... but it just bothers me how it was framed narratively.

I think the ending of the series won't be presented as some end-all finish, with a message that Rebecca will always be happy from now on because she found either a man or a job or a hobby that makes her happy - that would just confirm one of her obsessions. Like Paula said: You say hello, you say goodbye ... maybe Rebecca will even leave West Covina?

Anyway, here is the promo for next week:

Spoiler

Paula's sweater is very ... flashy.

[HexMachina]

8 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Rebecca struggles most with having a sense of identity that is healthy.  Seeking out a relationship or a job that is her whole identity can't be what this is building towards.  TBH I relate.  But I haven't figured out an end goal for the show or mine own life.  Maybe that's the point -- seeking meaning in our values and passions, but not being attached to outcomes -- the happily ever after mirage.

 

COmpletely agree. By all means have Rebecca find a loving relationship, have her indulge her passion for musical theatre. But it cant be presented as the fix for all her problems if the show is to carry its message consistently. Rebecca needs to focus on not defining her life by other things - Josh Chan, her job, her therapy, the theatre. I was a little disappointed at first too following the theatre episode, but in hindsight it really works, imo.

im interested to see how it all concludes. But i definitely dont see Rebecca leaving West Covina because that wouldnt make any sense. She has built her life here and made tremendous personal progress even if she has a long way to go. She doesnt truly have a life anywhere else, and i dont think the showrunners are going to have her try and start all over again like she did in the first episode

[RhaenysBee]

On 3/31/2019 at 1:57 PM, Buckwheat said:

 Josh: she stalked him, lied to him, caused his break up with Valencia, got him fired from his job, spied on him when he had sex with other girls ... etc. etc. etc. It is unrealistic that he even wants to talk to her after everything she's done to him. Also, there was that moment of insight, "Josh is irrelevant", which was also a title of a whole episode.

- Nathaniel: she broke up with him SO, SO many times. He had a whole episode from his point of view devoted to his getting over her, and it ended with him saying he is ready to really move on this time. Even earlier, "Nathaniel is Irrelevant". Also, they bring out the worst in each other (cheating on Mona, trying to ruin Josh's family). Also, he does not understand her at all, I don't think reading her childhood diary changes that.

- Greg: the first time they went out together, she was using him to get information about Josh. Similar dynamic continued throughout season 1 and 2 - he was second place, good company when something went wrong with Josh. Greg even knew that, just before You Stupid Bitch he spelled it out. Also, they were apart from each other for 2 years with no contact - the normal thing here would be to get over each other. As soon as they rekindled something, the same scenario happened (first season - taco date/fourth season - Raging Waters). Also, she slept with his father. They decided to get tacos! in the last episode! Not good, tacos are not good for this couple.

In conclusion ... none of the above should even be an option. Neither realistically nor narratively.

 on point summary. I wish someone had put all this on a white board in columns for the betting party at home base. I mean everybody, including Rebecca and the three guys seem to have forgotten these things. 

I do agree with you all about the no fix-everything answer. That’s how real life works, one thing will never make you unconditionally happy. But I do expect some level of closure and resolution because this is a story, not real life. As a viewer, I do require the narrative to offer me some conclusion of the past 4 seasons, rather than just saying Okay, so this will probably go on for twenty more years while Rebecca searches for the meaning of her existence to which there is no one correct answer. That’s what I expect from philosophy class and that’s what I would probably accept from a show like The Goodness Place with all the philosophy going on there.

Here, the entire plot is built around Rebecca’s search for something to replace the high profile legal career in New York so her life would be more fulfilling. Fulfillment of course comes from many sources and areas of life, but it’s rather difficult to exit this story without leaving the audience with one (different from the starting) setup of Rebecca’s life. Also, if your narrative’s dealing with picking one of three guys two episodes before the series finale, there’s not much room to jump off the soap train and catch the philosophy one twenty platforms down. The audience does kind of expect  an explicit answer to who (or what else) the  character chooses even if there’s a more complex answer  or maybe that’s just my understanding. 

[Buckwheat]

10 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

COmpletely agree. By all means have Rebecca find a loving relationship, have her indulge her passion for musical theatre. But it cant be presented as the fix for all her problems if the show is to carry its message consistently. Rebecca needs to focus on not defining her life by other things - Josh Chan, her job, her therapy, the theatre. I was a little disappointed at first too following the theatre episode, but in hindsight it really works, imo.

Hmmm, actually that makes sense. You are right about that.

I don't think her leaving West Covina is very likely either. But you never know with this show. I expect that the last episode will change the situation completely again.

2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

 on point summary. I wish someone had put all this on a white board in columns for the betting party at home base. I mean everybody, including Rebecca and the three guys seem to have forgotten these things.

Yes, they should have made the minus columns as well. Darryl would love this idea!

At this point, the character are not very psychologically realistically fleshed out, they are more like walking ideas/representations. But I really don't mind it, I very much liked the last episode with everybody betting and all, despite the fact that it mostly went contrary to the previous characterisations and broke the personalities completely.

[Datepalm]

I like this take from the Atlantic on the lack of Rebecca singing:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/04/crazy-ex-girlfriend-revived-tv-musical-the-cw/586555/

Quote

This dynamic creates a dilemma for fans. It means that one possible outcome of Rebecca’s ongoing recovery would be that she stops imagining her life as a series of musical numbers. It might be fitting, then, that the show is concluding after Season 4, with Rebecca’s life seemingly on the upswing. Musical theater is, in many ways, escapism in its flashiest form, an indulgent departure from reality. As Rebecca continues to grow, she’ll begin to face life’s dramas in the real world, rather than on the private stage in her mind.

 

[Starkess]

Can't believe tonight is the last episode ever!! Waiting for my DVR to finish so I can skip commercials. Last week's episode made me think she was going to end up with nuGreg. I hope not. I am hopeful for either no one or Nathaniel. But more importantly I am hoping she finally realizes writing for theater is her passion!

[SpaceChampion]

"The problem is... you don't know who you are."   I shouted EXACTLY!

 

[HexMachina]

9 hours ago, Starkess said:

Can't believe tonight is the last episode ever!! Waiting for my DVR to finish so I can skip commercials. Last week's episode made me think she was going to end up with nuGreg. I hope not. I am hopeful for either no one or Nathaniel. But more importantly I am hoping she finally realizes writing for theater is her passion!

I cant believe its over! I just have the concert special to watch. I think i will save it for a day when my depression is bad because, you know, this show does wonders for my mood

3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

"The problem is... you don't know who you are."   I shouted EXACTLY!

 

Yes, they really really nailed the finale imo and successfully carried through the messages they have been trying to convey throughout the show. They clearly had a goal in mind and a message to send from the beginning and despite some “misleads” (which in hindsight, no i think they just reflecting that, to quote Josh Groban, life doesnt make narrative sense) they carried it through in this finale.

On 3/24/2019 at 11:07 PM, HelenaExMachina said:

Part of the business course at my current university involves running their own business so i dont think that is unrealistic at all.

i think buck is correct regarding Rebecca and theatre writing. Makes sense really, her life has been completely informed by writing her own stories. Combine with her love of theatre and hey ho

 

 

More stuff;

Enjoyed how they framed the finale to fit all of this stuff in, with the time hop, dream ghost and flashbacks, very crestive way to cover a lot of ground.

Loved the 11’o’clock song and all the throwbacks. How am i ever going to compile a best songs list now?

Paula’s decision re: the pro-bono thing really rang true for me. Ive networked with plenty of lawyers over here who have said they found working in some firms defeated them because they were all about profit bottom line with little care for anything else. And the show made quite clear that Paula’s passion for the law is actually about justice and money is important, but secondary to that. So her deciding to quit if she couldnt do the pro boni thing made sense. See also “Dont be a lawyer”

The episode also makes sense of this season’s opening title btw, as the title sequence is all about “Meet Rebecca...wait no not her. Who is Rebecca? Erm....dunno, so lets just forget it.” Very clever

 

[RhaenysBee]

I don’t think it’ll surprise anybody when I say I wasn’t a huge fan of this. It felt like a trailer for the finale. Fast cuts, rushed reveals, stripped down dialogue, callbacks, blended songs, TIMEJUMP. No ending ever benefited from a time jump.

Many of the endings for the characters I found inconsistent with their 4 seasons of personality. I did like White Josh’s and Nathaniel’s ending. I found Paula’s overdramatic and slightly inconsistent (I mean being the advocate of women in trouble in not in the first 3 or even 6 things that pops into my mind when I think of Paula’s character), Josh’s portrayed zero character growth and was terribly boring. Greg’s resonates with the joke new Greg is, painfully general and bland. I really hated the Beth and Valencia proposal, I just think it was a shit thing of Beth to refuse to propose to Valencia because “she doesn’t care” and say “yes, this is the proposal I always wanted” when she ended up proposing. It was just wrong. Hector and Heather, Darryl were okay. 

Rebecca... I mean man, this process of revelation is what they should have used the last 5 episodes for, not cram it into one five minute scene. Also, for 4 years nobody asked Rebecca why she’s staring into nothing so weirdly if this is what she does while we see the musical numbers? Wtf is that? 

And I truly truly truly hated the lack of presence or so much as mention of Naomi. Like wtf. W. T. F. 

Plus, I get that there was a one year time jump we didn’t get to see, but one episode about this lady was going on three dates and choosing from three guys, right now a romantic partnership is the ending for all Valencia, Josh, Heather and Darryl, but Rebecca makes a point about how that’s not the most important part of life. No shit, who would have thought? So maybe, again, spend the last 5 episodes on resolving storylines (including romantic ones), but support your message with a different focus on characters’ lives? Show Darryl with his kids, talk about Valencia’s event planning business or yoga or a new New York apartment or whatever, make Josh the manager of Aloha or a coach for the church’s sports teams?

As for Paula... in my understanding, her whole character was always about searching for a healthy work-life balance. from having to give up education because she started a family early, through struggling with her teenage sons, endangering her marriage while at law school, getting an abortion to concentrate on her career, to not being able to deliver salmon to a school event because of her corporate job. But do we ever get a resolution for this? No, Paula’s older son goes to college or what and then we completely forget about the fact that she still has a family. Whatever. Point is that she’s now a very important lawyer with great moral compass.

I did love that Nathaniel went to work at a zoo and Josh’s keeping Estrella was adorable. And the concert special actually makes up for the finale and delivers proper emotional closure, so it’s fiiiine that this last season was so poorly done.