Octarchy of Old Ghis

[PrettyPig]

20 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Could there be one removed? Is there something else going on with the gods? 

Any thoughts into this? 8 distinct points of origin?

I think there's significance to it - although GRRM is a 'reformed' Catholic and swears he isn't relying heavily on the Bible & Christian motifs, I think that's only partially true.  There's a surprising amount of Old Testament symbolism running through the story, particularly in relation to the plight of the Jewish people  - the ancient Israelites and their struggles around their hold on the land of Canaan.      If you layer the stories of the Israelites over the history of Old Ghis, which had already existed for thousands of years at the birth of the Valryian Empire, then you can start to see the parallel in the societies.   

Enter the number 8 - in Judaism, 7 is a holy/godly number that signifies a natural but finite perfection, whereas 8 actually transcends perfection achieved in nature- it is the step beyond the natural order, unlimited, no beginning or ending.   Hence, 8 as the symbol of infinity.   In the Bible (New Testament), 8 is the symbol of regeneration or resurrection; combine the concept of new beginnings with the closed loop of supernatural completion and we get infinity again.   In ASOIAF we have multiple instances of this being expressed what with the weirnet, second lives, face wearing, kiss of life, etc.   

Anyway, considering that the First Men arrived from Essos over 10K years ago, that the current Ghiscari deflesh their honored dead and bury the bones in crypts beneath their homes, and that they too have prophecy about unions of fantastic beasts, I have to wonder if Old Ghis was actually the birthplace (or at least common practitioner) of the root religion of the current day offshoots (IMO theirs may have been the gods that the First Men brought to Westeros before converting to the Old Gods of the Children).   The octarchy  - representing that holier than holy number 8 - suggests to me that the ancient Ghiscari play the role of the ancient Israelites in the story...and to get answers about the religious practices of the First Men (all of them, not just the Starks), we should look there.

 

[AlaskanSandman]

1 God on Earth

2 Pearl

3 Jade

4. Tourmaline

5. Onyx

6. Topaz

7. Opal

8. Amethyst.

________________________________________________________________________________

9. The Bloodstone Emperor

I think people should re-examine the myths such as Hugor (The Bloodstone Emperor) who was provided a wife (Amethyst?) by the 7. 

[AlaskanSandman]

9 minutes ago, PrettyPig said:

I think there's significance to it - although GRRM is a 'reformed' Catholic and swears he isn't relying heavily on the Bible & Christian motifs, I think that's only partially true.  There's a surprising amount of Old Testament symbolism running through the story, particularly in relation to the plight of the Jewish people  - the ancient Israelites and their struggles around their hold on the land of Canaan.      If you layer the stories of the Israelites over the history of Old Ghis, which had already existed for thousands of years at the birth of the Valryian Empire, then you can start to see the parallel in the societies.   

Enter the number 8 - in Judaism, 7 is a holy/godly number that signifies a natural but finite perfection, whereas 8 actually transcends perfection achieved in nature- it is the step beyond the natural order, unlimited, no beginning or ending.   Hence, 8 as the symbol of infinity.   In the Bible (New Testament), 8 is the symbol of regeneration or resurrection; combine the concept of new beginnings with the closed loop of supernatural completion and we get infinity again.   In ASOIAF we have multiple instances of this being expressed what with the weirnet, second lives, face wearing, kiss of life, etc.   

Anyway, considering that the First Men arrived from Essos over 10K years ago, that the current Ghiscari deflesh their honored dead and bury the bones in crypts beneath their homes, and that they too have prophecy about unions of fantastic beasts, I have to wonder if Old Ghis was actually the birthplace (or at least common practitioner) of the root religion of the current day offshoots (IMO theirs may have been the gods that the First Men brought to Westeros before converting to the Old Gods of the Children).   The octarchy  - representing that holier than holy number 8 - suggests to me that the ancient Ghiscari play the role of the ancient Israelites in the story...and to get answers about the religious practices of the First Men (all of them, not just the Starks), we should look there.

 

Yes yes and yes

I would say, think of Abraham, father of many faiths. Judaism, Muslim, and Christianity.

[AlaskanSandman]

garths-children-and-their-war-of-love/

If any one is interested, this is half the picture. 

Garth was of the Empire of the Dawn and possibly the God on Earth, as he lived more than 1000 years. His children, (Those who lived 1000 years, Durran and the Grey King.) went to war with each other over their sister, the Amethyst Empress. 

This is what started the Others as the Grey King activated the Curse placed on their father's barrow.

[AlaskanSandman]

Im warming people up to it all, before i go into what was happening after with the Faith of the Seven and Valyria. Hardhome, and House Targaryen. Couple key times to look at are 1300 years ago and 600 years ago

[The Fattest Leech]

28 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

No no, they would predate the Andals. Remember, the Ghiscari were rising while the rest of the world was in a long night and regression. Ghis and the Empire of the Dawn are older than the Long Night. 

Likely, the 8 is a nod to the Gem Stone Emperors.

Yup. That's why I said they were not the originators. Many people on the threads tend to abuse the search site and try and link anything, say... silver as all meaning the same thing to every character in the story. There are gemstone emperor types all over. The important one to keep an eye on is the one in the current story.

[AlaskanSandman]

13 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yup. That's why I said they were not the originators. Many people on the threads tend to abuse the search site and try and link anything, say... silver as all meaning the same thing to every character in the story. There are gemstone emperor types all over. The important one to keep an eye on is the one in the current story.

Hahah yea i agree. Some people make some pretty interesting connections and go down alot of metaphor paths. I try to keep mine clear of most of that other than the few legends we're given in the book. 

I already know what i think about the Andals and who they are, but im trying to get people to understand the Dawn Age and Age of Heroes/Long Night, before i go into the Andals, who they are, and how they relate to Valyria and the big picture. There are some very key events and moments that explain this, but to understand them, you have to first understand who the 7/8 gods are and the origins of the myths. Also, who the Last Hero/Azor Ahai really was.

[AlaskanSandman]

It's nothing im trying to keep secret, i just wanna make a thread showing the evidence for people to understand.

The Andals are the original Valyrians before they got dragons. They had neither land nor dragons and we're driven from their homes. There are how ever a fewww details im working out regarding Lannister involvement in some later key events. 

[AlaskanSandman]

The thing is that the Andals/ Valyrians originally had black hair and eyes, and they built square structures. Before the dragons and the blood of the Empire of the Dawn came into them.. 

[AlaskanSandman]

The Ghiscari were founded by the Bloodstone Emperor IMO and thus why they were rising during the Long Night. The Empire of the Dawn is older than them.

[Dorian Martell's son]

23 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Any thoughts into this? 8 distinct points of origin? Even thoughts into the political side of this. Just curious any other thoughts.

It is the number of rulers they had. There is not any connection the the faith of the seven as far as I can tell. I have not delved too far into GRRM's numerology, but there is no reason to think (at this point) that the faith of the andals and old ghis are somehow related by one missing digit. Is there any other connection you can see between the old empire and the andals. Do the ghiscari carve an 8 pointed star into their chests? do they worship one god with 8 faces?  The concept of knighthood is foreign to slaver's bay, which is why Ser Barristan is training his own knights. 

[AlaskanSandman]

48 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It is the number of rulers they had. There is not any connection the the faith of the seven as far as I can tell. I have not delved too far into GRRM's numerology, but there is no reason to think (at this point) that the faith of the andals and old ghis are somehow related by one missing digit. Is there any other connection you can see between the old empire and the andals. Do the ghiscari carve an 8 pointed star into their chests? do they worship one god with 8 faces?  The concept of knighthood is foreign to slaver's bay, which is why Ser Barristan is training his own knights. 

May wanna read through the thread. I cover this 

[AlaskanSandman]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It is the number of rulers they had. There is not any connection the the faith of the seven as far as I can tell. I have not delved too far into GRRM's numerology, but there is no reason to think (at this point) that the faith of the andals and old ghis are somehow related by one missing digit. Is there any other connection you can see between the old empire and the andals. Do the ghiscari carve an 8 pointed star into their chests? do they worship one god with 8 faces?  The concept of knighthood is foreign to slaver's bay, which is why Ser Barristan is training his own knights. 

Long and short, there is little connection between Valyria and Ghis, but some. I would say they descend each from one of the three siblings of the Empire of the Dawn i've mentioned in my other threads. Thus they share a religious association via a schism, but that's about it. 

[White Ravens]

Perhaps the Manderleys are secret members of the Ochtarch of the Old Empire.  We know that the Manderlys are a displaced Andal family from the South and when they moved north of the neck they brought their worship of the Seven with them.  They built a new home and eventually established a thriving castle, harbour and city but nestled right amongst the urban finery of White Harbor is an ancient Godswood within the walls of the Wolf's Den, allowing the Manderlys to worship the eight aspects of the Ochtarch.  This is the secret meaning of the Octopod painted on the walls of the Mermaid's Court.

[AlaskanSandman]

3 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Perhaps the Manderleys are secret members of the Ochtarch of the Old Empire.  We know that the Manderlys are a displaced Andal family from the South and when they moved north of the neck they brought their worship of the Seven with them.  They built a new home and eventually established a thriving castle, harbour and city but nestled right amongst the urban finery of White Harbor is an ancient Godswood within the walls of the Wolf's Den, allowing the Manderlys to worship the eight aspects of the Ochtarch.  This is the secret meaning of the Octopod painted on the walls of the Mermaid's Court.

With out tipping my full hand haha

1. The North

2. The Vale

3. The Riverlands

4. The Iron Islands

5. The Westerlands

6. The Reach

7. The Stormlands

8. Dorne

[AlaskanSandman]

Isn't there another important number in Planetos numerology?...........

wink wink, nudge nudge

[AlaskanSandman]

What would hypothetically keep Daeron II from "growing corpselike in appearance as his vitality and life is sucked away"?.............

[AlaskanSandman]

Maybe...think pre- Long Night geography....

[AlaskanSandman]

@Ran Who's your favorite "King beyond the Wall"?

[Ran]

@AlaskanSandman Not much of a contest: Mance Rayder, just because he's a living, breathing character rather than an enigmatic legend. Though he's pretty legendary, too.