Could Penny be Tyrion's daughter?

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, Lady bonehead said:

Penny is Tyrion's sister.  Tyrion is actually the product of a fling between Joanna and a traveling dwarf (haven't heard this theory before, but it makes as much sense as many).

Lady, I've never ever seen that proposed before!   

[the trees have eyes]

9 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Pshaw again, Varys!   The relationship between Penny and Tyrion is a sweet thing between misfits who find a way to fit together.  I'm thinking along the lines of brother-sister; Tyrion filling Penny's deep loss in a way and Penny giving him someone sweet to mentor and care for.   They distract each other in a mutually beneficial way.   

I think you're right, Ser.   Tyrion does need purpose and Penny is a fine one at this point.   

Indeed.  Penny pulls Tyrion out of his funk by giving him someone who needs looking after and as she is young, innocent, grieving and pretty much helpless it's impossible for him to hold so tightly to his cynicism and bitterness around her.  I'm interested in how much of a long term impact GRRM intends her to have on him.

[Big P]

This is some lines from a Zulu love song.  Most appropriate for Penny to sing to Tyrion.

You may not know of my existence

And if you do, you show no signs

I'll take you for worse, I'll take you for better

I just want for you to be mine

 

The girl is so in-love with Tyrion and it's a little awkward.

[Varysblackfyre321]

22 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Pshaw again, Varys!   The relationship between Penny and Tyrion is a sweet thing between misfits who find a way to fit together.  I'm thinking along the lines of brother-sister; Tyrion filling Penny's deep loss in a way and Penny giving him someone sweet to mentor and care for.   They distract each other in a mutually beneficial way.   

I think you're right, Ser.   Tyrion does need purpose and Penny is a fine one at this point.   

I think they're mentoring each other. Other, posters have argued (and I agree), Tyrion has a sort of parent figure in penny; she's teaching him how to be a dwarf; in the past he was able make up for  his short stature with using his family's political clout and wealth to get by in life-now without his family he has had to learn to actually cope in a world of "big people" and use his disability to his advantage-to which Penny is showing him how. It's going to be hear wrenching if she contracts sickness(as she has been given sighn to). 

[Curled Finger]

4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I think they're mentoring each other. Other, posters have argued (and I agree), Tyrion has a sort of parent figure in penny; she's teaching him how to be a dwarf; in the past he was able make up for  his short stature with using his family's political clout and wealth to get by in life-now without his family he has had to learn to actually cope in a world of "big people" and use his disability to his advantage-to which Penny is showing him how. It's going to be hear wrenching if she contracts sickness(as she has been given sighn to). 

I couldn't agree more.  Penny and Tyrion really do have an interesting dynamic.  I'm not looking forward to Penny getting anything but safely away from the battle, but I fear you're right.    

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 2/6/2018 at 10:23 AM, Lady bonehead said:

Penny is Tyrion's sister.  Tyrion is actually the product of a fling between Joanna and a traveling dwarf (haven't heard this theory before, but it makes as much sense as many).

as long as the dwarf was a secret targ being skinchanged by bloodraven, I'm totes on board 

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

I think she is

see here:

http://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/18626024653/the-dwarfs-penny-part-2

[zandru]

On 2/7/2018 at 5:22 AM, the trees have eyes said:

Penny pulls Tyrion out of his funk by giving him someone who needs looking after

It's also, I think, of critical importance that Tyrion feels no sexual attraction towards her. He's got a record for messing up that kind of relationship. It probably isn't optimal that he's repelled by her attraction to him, but at least he's still relating to her in a non-sexual way, sort of as one human being to another.

[Haus Berlin]

8 hours ago, zandru said:

It's also, I think, of critical importance that Tyrion feels no sexual attraction towards her. He's got a record for messing up that kind of relationship. It probably isn't optimal that he's repelled by her attraction to him, but at least he's still relating to her in a non-sexual way, sort of as one human being to another.

It can very well be that the odd revulsion between Tyrion and Penny serves not as a hint to the reader that those two are relatives, but that this revulsion sets up another access to love, similiar to Jaime and Brienne. It is almost comical how GRRM presents us with that pair of dwarf "knights" and still won't disclose how possible a romance emerged from mutual rejection is in his universe.

Might be that I like my own idea too much. It has its appeal. For not only Tywin had difficulties to see himself in his dwarf son, but this dwarf does not relate to his own being. He would have best chances to overcome this defect in fatherly affection, would he be father of a dwarf himself. There is this ongoing theme of reflection amongst the Lannister family.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

The age gap doesn't confirm your theory, when Penny was born (the wiki states the years 281, 282 or 283, he would be at most 10 years old. Tyrion was born in 273 AC.

[Varysblackfyre321]

17 hours ago, zandru said:

It's also, I think, of critical importance that Tyrion feels no sexual attraction towards her. He's got a record for messing up that kind of relationship. It probably isn't optimal that he's repelled by her attraction to him, but at least he's still relating to her in a non-sexual way, sort of as one human being to another.

A purely platonic friendship with a female-can't say Tyrion has had many of those. 

[Haus Berlin]

For those who read the sample chapters of TWOW, please take a look below.

 

Spoiler

We already got it in ADWD. No sexual attraction between Tyrion and Penny. Remember, there is no lust in her eyes. Still, we get another kiss between those two in TWOW. But again, nothing changed. Only that this time it is Tyrion who is afraid and not Penny. She clearly does not play the game, as Tyrion put it, but pays back some comfort she got from Tyrion when she was in a similiar situation.

But please let us take a look at the exact wording:

 

"I was just recalling my first battle. The Green Fork. We fought between a river and a road. When I saw my father's host deploy, I remember thinking how beautiful it was. Like a flower opening its petals to the sun. A crimson rose with iron thorns. And my father, ah,   he had never looked so resplendent. He wore crimson armor, with this huge greatcloak made of cloth-of-gold. A pair of golden lions on his shoulders, another on his helm. His stallion was magnificent. His lordship watched the whole battle from atop that horse and never got within a hundred yards of any foe. He never moved, never smiled, never broke a sweat, whilst thousands died below him. Picture me perched on a camp stool, gazing down upon a cyvasse board. We could almost be twins… if I had a horse, some crimson armor, and a greatcloak sewn from cloth-of-gold. He was taller too. I have more hair." Penny kissed him. She moved so fast that he had no time to think. She darted in, quick as a bird, and pressed her lips to his. Just as quickly it was over. What was that for? he almost said, but he knew what it was for. Thank you, he might have said, but she might take that as leave to do it again. Child, I have no wish to hurt you, he could have tried, but Penny was no child, and his wishes would not blunt the cut. For the first time for longer than he cared to think, Tyrion Lannister was at a loss for words. She looks so young, he thought. A girl, that's all she is. A girl, and almost pretty if you can forget that she's a dwarf. Her hair was a warm brown, thick and curly, and her eyes were large and trusting. Too trusting. "Do you hear that sound?" said Tyrion. She listened. "What is it?" she said as she was strapping a pair of mismatched greaves onto his stunted legs.

 

There is a subtle shift in the context of each kiss from ADWD to TWOW. The first time Penny faces her death and wishes for a boy to kiss her before she dies and Tyrion rejects her, saying he is married to another girl. The second time Tyrion faces his death as a piece in an oversized game and Penny encourages the thought that he could be a player just like his father. This kiss leaves Tyrion with the observation of Penny's young age and he thinks of her as a child. He takes in her appeareance while she brings out his appeareance.

As this new context seems more pleasing for both of them (Tyrion nearly thanked her and she kissed him even though she felt no attraction)...

... I wonder if Tyrion will adopt Penny as his own daughter at some point to give her back a family and to wriggle himself out of his unwanted marriage with Sansa by claiming that this is his first wife's daughter?