Heresy 212 The Wolves

[Janneyc1]

42 minutes ago, Tucu said:

The storm coming from the south is very suspicious. We have many otherly elements operating around Winterfell. Bran and Theon are two of them; Mance and his secret plan too. We also have the Boltons with their icy eyes ("All he and Ramsay had in common were their eyes. His eyes are ice") usurping Winterfell with a fake Arya Stark now that Winter has finally arrived.

To me, the other unsettling thing is that the storm isn't moving. You would expect weather to move along after awhile. This storm isn't moving and it looks like it is getting bigger and nastier. I suspect that we can find something to explain this in the lower levels of the crypts. That said, I think that only a Stark could access those levels. 

[Brad Stark]

Something is hidden in the weather patterns.  We are told (world book I think) that winters got colder after the last dragon died.  We have the year of False Spring, with implications the change in weather was tied to events that happened.  Something magical is affecting the seasons, GRRM left enough hints for us to figure it out, but I don't know what it is. 

[Janneyc1]

10 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

Something is hidden in the weather patterns.  We are told (world book I think) that winters got colder after the last dragon died.  We have the year of False Spring, with implications the change in weather was tied to events that happened.  Something magical is affecting the seasons, GRRM left enough hints for us to figure it out, but I don't know what it is. 

Did Lyanna vanish during the Year of the False Spring? or was that after? 

 

Also related to that, How did Rhaegar get enough winter roses to make a crown? According to the Bael the Bard story, the Starks covet them.

[Tucu]

9 minutes ago, Janneyc1 said:

Did Lyanna vanish during the Year of the False Spring? or was that after? 

 

Also related to that, How did Rhaegar get enough winter roses to make a crown? According to the Bael the Bard story, the Starks covet them.

The false spring only lasted two months (around the Tourney at Harrenhal). Lyanna dissapeared around the start of the new year once winter was back.

[SirArthur]

1 hour ago, Brad Stark said:

Something is hidden in the weather patterns.  We are told (world book I think) that winters got colder after the last dragon died.  We have the year of False Spring, with implications the change in weather was tied to events that happened.  Something magical is affecting the seasons, GRRM left enough hints for us to figure it out, but I don't know what it is. 

There are a lot of false connection between Napoleon, his defeat in June 1815 and the eruption of mount Tambora in April 1815. And while it is true that the bad weather played a role, the overall strategic situation wasn't really that good for Napoleon (with the largest enemy armies not even close to the battlefield). The eruption certainly wasn't the one decisive event that made Napoleon loose Waterloo and loose the war. Even if he would have won, he would have still faced serious problems. 

I read the same here. The dying of the dragons may be related to the cold. But it could also just be a consequence or even just a minor piece of the larger puzzle. And even without the death of the dragons the weather may have gotten colder. Some dragons are certainly not as important to the weather as that huge Wall of ice. And the Wall is cracking ...

[Brad Stark]

55 minutes ago, Tucu said:

The false spring only lasted two months (around the Tourney at Harrenhal). 

Where'd you get that?  Do we know more precisely when? 

[Tucu]

11 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

Where'd you get that?  Do we know more precisely when? 

The length is mentioned in the world book:

Quote

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance.

I tend to think that the reference to winter returning with a vengeance was a reference to the Starks.

We also know the the tourney was organized in anticipation of the end of winter:

Quote

IN THE ANNALS of Westeros, 281 AC is known as the Year of the False Spring. Winter had held the land in its icy grip for close on two years, but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer. Though the white ravens had not yet flown, there were many even at the Citadel of Oldtown who believed that winter’s end was nigh.
As warm winds blew from the south, lords and knights from throughout the Seven Kingdoms made their way toward Harrenhal to compete in Lord Whent’s great tournament on the shore of the Gods Eye, which promised to be the largest and most magnificent competition since the time of Aegon the Unlikely.

 

[Janneyc1]

37 minutes ago, Tucu said:

I tend to think that the reference to winter returning with a vengeance was a reference to the Starks

I do wonder if the growing storm in Winterfell is a defense mechanism since the castle is occupied by non-Starks... lends to the phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell".

[Brad Stark]

So the weather was getting better and then Rhaegar pissed off the Starks.  Can we tie the weather to them in any other events?  The end of ADWD has an angry Jon ready to March on Ramsay with the weather getting worse. 

[Janneyc1]

1 minute ago, Brad Stark said:

So the weather was getting better and then Rhaegar pissed off the Starks.  Can we tie the weather to them in any other events?  The end of ADWD has an angry Jon ready to March on Ramsay with the weather getting worse. 

Same with Ice-Eyes raiding the Wolfs Den to throw out the slavers. Also has the addendum of Ice-Eyes in that story. 

[Janneyc1]

9 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

So the weather was getting better and then Rhaegar pissed off the Starks.  Can we tie the weather to them in any other events?  The end of ADWD has an angry Jon ready to March on Ramsay with the weather getting worse.

Quote

 

After their fall, the castle had passed through many other hands. House Flint held it for a century, House Locke for almost two. Slates, Longs, Holts, and Ashwoods had held sway here, charged by Winterfell to keep the river safe. Reavers from the Three Sisters took the castle once, making it their toehold in the north. During the wars between Winterfell and the Vale, it was besieged by Osgood Arryn, the Old Falcon, and burned by his son, the one remembered as the Talon. When old King Edrick Stark had grown too feeble to defend his realm, the Wolf's Den was captured by slavers from the Stepstones. They would brand their captives with hot irons and break them to the whip before shipping them off across the sea, and these same black stone walls bore witness.

"Then a long cruel winter fell," said Ser Bartimus. "The White Knife froze hard, and even the firth was icing up. The winds came howling from the north and drove them slavers inside to huddle round their fires, and whilst they warmed themselves the new king come down on them. Brandon Stark this was, Edrick Snowbeard's great-grandson, him that men called Ice Eyes. He took the Wolf's Den back, stripped the slavers naked, and gave them to the slaves he'd found chained up in the dungeons. It's said they hung their entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods. The old gods, not these new ones from the south. Your Seven don't know winter, and winter don't know them."

Davos could not argue with the truth of that. From what he had seen at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, he did not care to know winter either. "What gods do you keep?" he asked the one-legged knight.

 

I love this little story

[Melifeather]

3 hours ago, St Daga said:

You make a good point when you mention dragons vs wyvern's in our world termanology (although this doesn't work for every culture in our world, with Chinese dragons being snakelike, with 4 smaller legs and no wings), with GRRM using what is commonly described as a wyvern and calling it a dragon. I suppose it all comes down to him and his world.

As to the flying mouse discussion, that is something I am not aware of, however I would suspect that each time a book is translated from one language to another there will be discrepancies such as this, and more than a few sources. 

It makes sense that Bloodraven would have carried this sword on his ranging, and would keep it in his possession. It is interesting about this information on Dark Sister going to the wall with Bloodraven. When this information popped up, there was a small discussion on LH about it as well. How could this information work in the text?

Bran, Rickon, Osha, Meera and Hodor all took swords from the crypts, and Bran, Meera and Hodor would still have those iron swords in Bloodraven's cave. I have wondered about Dark Sister and Meera, although I am not sure about the idea of twins in the story, with Meera being one of them. However, Meera's color imagery also matches Rhaegal, and I do find that very interesting, and she is certainly worth speculating about.

Meera takes Rickard Stark's iron sword from his statue but Bran points out that she complains it is too heavy. This sounds a bit like Arya and Syrio and the practice sword that Arya is to train with. Heavy is good, at least for training. Arya's ultimate goal is to wield Needle. So, is Meera training in those caves with Rickard's sword, and if she stumbles across Dark Sister (a slender longsword designed for a woman) and if so, will all this other sword work have been enough practice for Meera to wield a Valyrian steel blade?

The downside to this argument is that I don't think we ever see Meera practicing with a sword, only her frog spear and net, but it's possible that she is practicing off page, and GRRM could drop this information into the text with ease, I suspect.

But the fact that Blackfyre and Dark Sister never get a mention in the text of the actual ASOIAF novels (only the companion works and SSM's) makes me wonder if these blades are really going to be important in this story.   

What I think could turn out to be more important is that Bran and Co currently have three crypt swords in their possession north of the Wall, those swords are said to be made of iron, and Old Nan tells us that the Other's hate iron! That information is given to us in the very first novel, not in other world stories or SSM's. If the Other's are truly the enemy (I am not sold on that concept) then perhaps these swords are important against the Others.

 

 

I tend to find the confirmation that Dark Sister is with Bloodraven quite anti-climactic. There's nothing - so far - that stands out for me to even suspect that it has any importance other than its Valyrian Steel which can slay white walkers. It is likely that none of the iron swords that Bran and Co brought with them are Valyrian, so it could come in handy for that. The cave is warded against such things right now, but if Bran were to leave the cave's protection, I could see Bloodraven offering up Dark Sister as a means to protect themselves against white walkers.

 

3 hours ago, Janneyc1 said:

So my take is different, slightly. Looking into some tiny details, it can be interpreted that the snow storm that is plaguing Winterfell and Stannis is beginning to be felt at the Wall at the time of Jon's sharp and pointy adventure, and the Storm is felt in the Riverlands, at Riverrun when Jaime finds out about Winter arriving. 

It looks as if the storm is originating around Winterfell and staying there. Which is very odd considering that storms move and dissipate. This storm seems to be getting stronger. My speculation is that this is an Other powered storm that is suppose to cripple the North. 

I agree that Theon might become an Other, it holds promise. 

There is a theory that the Wall is actually disintegrating - quite literally blowing away in the wind (cue Dany's fertility requirements) - and exhausting out through the underground tunnels, which lead ultimately to Winterfell. It is possible that the exhaust is coming up through the crypts. Any dead without swords could theoretically rise from the dead from this magic cold wind coming off the Wall. I anticipate that the blizzard won't move south until the white walkers have assembled an army of wights, and I don't think the Wall necessarily has to come all the way down for that to happen. Stannis's army is nearby as well as a plethora of Freys, Manderlys, and Bolton men. If they all die the white walkers would have a significant wight army with which to move south.

 

1 hour ago, Janneyc1 said:

Did Lyanna vanish during the Year of the False Spring? or was that after? 

 

Also related to that, How did Rhaegar get enough winter roses to make a crown? According to the Bael the Bard story, the Starks covet them.

It all depends upon if you want to accept the World book as the truth or not? Because the canon doesn't really give us a whole lot of details as to when and where Lyanna was abducted. The Harrenhal tourney occurred during the Year of the False Spring, but the preparations for it began a year earlier. How would they know a year in advance that spring was coming? That last year must have showed signs of melting and warmer weather.

Personally, I think the blue roses are a metaphor for Ned's association of the events of the tourney coupled with Lyanna's death, so I question whether the crown was actually made with them. The crown could have been made of some other type of flower, although blue roses are typically grown in the Stark's greenhouse. Perhaps they supplied the crown?

 

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

The false spring only lasted two months (around the Tourney at Harrenhal). Lyanna dissapeared around the start of the new year once winter was back.

The word "turn" can mean two months, but couldn't it also be two turns of the wheel of time? I understand that if it meant the wheel it would imply that the people of Westeros would be aware it exists - which I am unsure of. It has been mentioned many times that people are referred to someone else "reborn", which to me hints at this knowledge, but it's not explicitly explained. The closest examples are when people refer to the dragon eating it's own tail, or when they say history repeats itself. Long explanation short, I think two turns might be something longer than two months....but at the same time I tend to believe The Year of the False Spring lasted one year with two turns of the wheel of time.

 

1 hour ago, SirArthur said:

There are a lot of false connection between Napoleon, his defeat in June 1815 and the eruption of mount Tambora in April 1815. And while it is true that the bad weather played a role, the overall strategic situation wasn't really that good for Napoleon (with the largest enemy armies not even close to the battlefield). The eruption certainly wasn't the one decisive event that made Napoleon loose Waterloo and loose the war. Even if he would have won, he would have still faced serious problems. 

I read the same here. The dying of the dragons may be related to the cold. But it could also just be a consequence or even just a minor piece of the larger puzzle. And even without the death of the dragons the weather may have gotten colder. Some dragons are certainly not as important to the weather as that huge Wall of ice. And the Wall is cracking ...

It's been speculated that keeping dragons in captivity stunts their growth. Kind of like keeping their size relevant to the space they're contained in. It's also been suggested that the maesters were poisoning them. And, maybe they weren't being fed enough? They weren't allowed to fly free to range for food, which is probably necessary to proper growth. Lastly, perhaps magic grew weaker and weaker every year since the Wall was raised, and every year as it grew in height, it had an effect on the amount of magic that was escaping?

36 minutes ago, Tucu said:

The length is mentioned in the world book:

I tend to think that the reference to winter returning with a vengeance was a reference to the Starks.

We also know the the tourney was organized in anticipation of the end of winter:

 

Try to keep in mind that the World book is an "in-world" history book, written by Maester Yandel as a gift to King Robert Baratheon. And as such, was written with Robert in mind. His regime were the victors and would want the history to reflect how he saw things, including perpetuating the myth that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna outside Harrenhal. This is something Robert believed and was promoted throughout the kingdom, but is it necessarily the truth?

[Janneyc1]

35 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

There is a theory that the Wall is actually disintegrating - quite literally blowing away in the wind (cue Dany's fertility requirements) - and exhausting out through the underground tunnels, which lead ultimately to Winterfell. It is possible that the exhaust is coming up through the crypts. Any dead without swords could theoretically rise from the dead from this magic cold wind coming off the Wall. I anticipate that the blizzard won't move south until the white walkers have assembled an army of wights, and I don't think the Wall necessarily has to come all the way down for that to happen. Stannis's army is nearby as well as a plethora of Freys, Manderlys, and Bolton men. If they all die the white walkers would have a significant wight army with which to move south.

What? Do you have a link or could you explain that a bit?

[St Daga]

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

I tend to think that the reference to winter returning with a vengeance was a reference to the Starks.

We also know the the tourney was organized in anticipation of the end of winter:

Quote

IN THE ANNALS of Westeros, 281 AC is known as the Year of the False Spring. Winter had held the land in its icy grip for close on two years, but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer. Though the white ravens had not yet flown, there were many even at the Citadel of Oldtown who believed that winter’s end was nigh.
As warm winds blew from the south, lords and knights from throughout the Seven Kingdoms made their way toward Harrenhal to compete in Lord Whent’s great tournament on the shore of the Gods Eye, which promised to be the largest and most magnificent competition since the time of Aegon the Unlikely.

 

I never really thought about this before, but how can in be noted to be "The Year of The False Spring" if spring was never declared by the Citadel? It really was still winter, although it was exhibiting warmer weather. One could argue there was no spring at all. Just all winter! Even if "some" people at the Citadel believed that winter was coming to an end, it hadn't been declared yet. Odd! Maybe spring wasn't coming at all!

 

1 hour ago, Brad Stark said:

So the weather was getting better and then Rhaegar pissed off the Starks.  Can we tie the weather to them in any other events?  The end of ADWD has an angry Jon ready to March on Ramsay with the weather getting worse. 

Interesting!

[Tucu]

1 hour ago, Janneyc1 said:

I do wonder if the growing storm in Winterfell is a defense mechanism since the castle is occupied by non-Starks... lends to the phrase "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell".

There is a chance that the Starks are a control valve over the powers of winter.

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

Try to keep in mind that the World book is an "in-world" history book, written by Maester Yandel as a gift to King Robert Baratheon. And as such, was written with Robert in mind. His regime were the victors and would want the history to reflect how he saw things, including perpetuating the myth that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna outside Harrenhal. This is something Robert believed and was promoted throughout the kingdom, but is it necessarily the truth?

I am aware of that, but I cannot think of a reason to doubt the estimated duration of the nice weather period. Yandel gives us a short description of why people thought Spring was starting:

Quote

but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer

My understanding is that before the false spring period there were still occasional snows and after that it started snowing increasingly more.

40 minutes ago, St Daga said:

I never really thought about this before, but how can in be noted to be "The Year of The False Spring" if spring was never declared by the Citadel? It really was still winter, although it was exhibiting warmer weather. One could argue there was no spring at all. Just all winter! Even if "some" people at the Citadel believed that winter was coming to an end, it hadn't been declared yet. Odd! Maybe spring wasn't coming at all!

That is just the popular name for that year. There was a short period when the snow melted and the days were growing longer. The Citadel never sent the white ravens and we don't know the method that they use to decide when a seasons change. So, yes, technically it was all winter.

[Janneyc1]

7 minutes ago, Tucu said:

There is a chance that the Starks are a control valve over the powers of winter.

I could almost see that, but that seems a little Deus Ex Machina for GRRM. The Starks currently don't know how to control it either. 

[Tucu]

4 minutes ago, Janneyc1 said:

I could almost see that, but that seems a little Deus Ex Machina for GRRM. The Starks currently don't know how to control it either. 

I think this has been hinted since GoT:

Quote

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks. Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

“Why?” Bran said, not understanding, falling, falling.

Because winter is coming.

Winter, not the WW, is the force that needs to be opposed or controlled.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Janneyc1 said:

What? Do you have a link or could you explain that a bit?

Well, it's a combination of conversations based on an essay by LynnS, who by the way has since changed her mind, but I still think it makes perfect sense. Here's a link... 

The link I provided was from Black Crow's wrap up post.  I could not locate the original OP with comments, so I'll have to add a few thoughts in case it was part of the discussion. The magic wards that hold the Wall together basically draws the cold, snow, and ice unto itself like a magnet, which also helped it grow. But the warding on the Wall has become old and frayed and is unraveling, allowing more and more magic to escape, thus instead of drawing the cold upon itself it's currently reversing and the cold is now being expelled as winter weather and exhausted through the tunnels underground. If the Wall is blowing away, it would be like a mountain blowing in the wind like leaves as Mirri suggested. You could also say that frozen lakes could appear as if they were "dry". The reference to the sun rising in the west is a nod towards the wheel of time turning inside out and historical events are happening in reverse. Here's the passage in question: 

Quote

  "When will he [Drogo] be as he was?" Dany demanded.

  "When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur, "When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Daenerys IX, AGOT

 More about the same subject...  

 

46 minutes ago, Tucu said:

There is a chance that the Starks are a control valve over the powers of winter.

I am aware of that, but I cannot think of a reason to doubt the estimated duration of the nice weather period. Yandel gives us a short description of why people thought Spring was starting:

My understanding is that before that period there were still occasional snows and after that period it started snowing increasingly more.

That is just the popular name for that year. There was a short period when the snow melted and the days were growing longer. The Citadel never sent the white ravens and we don't know the method that they use to decide when a seasons change. So, yes, technically it was all winter.

I thought I had read somewhere that the Harrenhal Tourney took a year to plan. The winter weather must have shown signs it was ebbing for quite some time before the actual event took place. I think the name "The Year of the False Spring" can be interpreted two ways. Either it was the year that people thought Spring had returned, or it was Spring for a single year and then it was winter again. Was Robert's Rebellion fought during the winter months as well? That isn't really explained very well. All I know is that Tyrion claims to have seen 9 winters - I think - and he's 10 years older than Robb Stark.

[Tucu]

54 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I thought I had read somewhere that the Harrenhal Tourney took a year to plan. The winter weather must have shown signs it was ebbing for quite some time before the actual event took place. I think the name "The Year of the False Spring" can be interpreted two ways. Either it was the year that people thought Spring had returned, or it was Spring for a single year and then it was winter again. Was Robert's Rebellion fought during the winter months as well? That isn't really explained very well. All I know if that Tyrion claims to have seen 9 winters - I think - and he's 10 years older than Robb Stark.

According to the world book, the tourney was announced the same year

Quote

Aerys Targaryen and Tywin Lannister had met as boys, had fought and bled together in the War of the Ninepenny Kings, and had ruled the Seven Kingdoms together for close to twenty years, but in 281 AC this long partnership, which had proved so fruitful to the realm, came to a bitter end.
Shortly thereafter, Lord Walter Whent announced plans for a great tourney to be held at his seat at Harrenhal, to celebrate his maiden daughter’s nameday. King Aerys II chose this event for the formal investiture of Ser Jaime Lannister as a knight of the Kingsguard … thus setting in motion the events that would end the Mad King’s reign and write an end to the long rule of House Targaryen in the Seven Kingdoms.

So it seems that Jamie's appointment to the KG, Tywin leaving KL, the announcement of the tourney and the tourney all happened in 281.

The wiki says that it was announced in 280 but I cannot find a source for that.

Another point of reference to all this happening in 281:

Quote

In 281 AC, however, the aged Kingsguard knight Ser Harlan Grandison passed away in his sleep, and the uneasy accord between Aerys II and his Hand finally snapped, when His Grace chose to offer a white cloak to Lord Tywin’s eldest son

It is all from the world book, but it is the only info with dates that we have.

Edit: it is not clear when that winter finally ended or if the war was fought during winter. We are told that Dany was born during a summer storm.

[St Daga]

53 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Was Robert's Rebellion fought during the winter months as well? That isn't really explained very well. All I know is that Tyrion claims to have seen 9 winters - I think - and he's 10 years older than Robb Stark.

The season that Robert's Rebellion was fought in is never really addressed.  I used to assume it was summer, because that's when most war's are fought, in the warmer months, but the text never tells us. If the Tourney of Harrenhal happened in Winter (even if it's near the end of it), and the current summer has lasted 10 years, when did the summer that followed the tourney of Harrenhal actually start?

I will say that I have always thought Tyrion's comments on how many winters he had seen to be very odd. I actually think he is exaggerating or down right lying.  If he is 24 at the start of our story, and the last 10 years have been summer, then he has to have his 9 winters played out in the other 14 years of his life. That is almost  a season cycle every full season cycle every 1.5 years, which would basically be normal. 

And how much time actually passed between the ToH and the start of Robert's Rebellion, or how long did Robert's rebellion really last?

I sometimes wonder if GRRM didn't think these details out at all!

1 hour ago, Tucu said:

That is just the popular name for that year. There was a short period when the snow melted and the days were growing longer. The Citadel never sent the white ravens and we don't know the method that they use to decide when a seasons change. So, yes, technically it was all winter.

Yes, they can call the year whatever they want, but the story implies that at the start of 282, winter had returned with a vengeance. 

Quote

The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. TWOIAF-The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Perhaps I am being nit-picky, but if the Citadel never declared it was anything but winter, then winter could not have returned. Why not say that cold weather returned with a vengeance. I know the World Book can be questioned about facts, but something is off here. Why the apparent confusion in the Citadel about what was winter or spring? How can such a huge tourney get planned just based on the "assumption" of spring? Or did spring get declared after Harrenhall, but then it lasted less than a year, to fit the wording that "winter returned"?

Quote

In the annals of Westeros, 281 AC is known as the Year of the False Spring. Winter had held the land in its icy grip for close on two years, but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer. Though the white ravens had not yet flown, there were many even at the Citadel of Oldtown who believed that winter's end was nigh. TWOIAF-The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Is this an example of the Citadel withholding the declaration of Summer, or Spring, or any seasonal change, disregarding the obvious signs of weather change?

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

5 hours ago, Tucu said:

The false spring only lasted two months (around the Tourney at Harrenhal). Lyanna dissapeared around the start of the new year once winter was back.

The word "turn" can mean two months, but couldn't it also be two turns of the wheel of time? I understand that if it meant the wheel it would imply that the people of Westeros would be aware it exists - which I am unsure of. It has been mentioned many times that people are referred to someone else "reborn", which to me hints at this knowledge, but it's not explicitly explained. The closest examples are when people refer to the dragon eating it's own tail, or when they say history repeats itself. Long explanation short, I think two turns might be something longer than two months....but at the same time I tend to believe The Year of the False Spring lasted one year with two turns of the wheel of time.

"Turns" is a very vague way to describe the passage of time. Turns of the moon does make sense in my head, but does it make sense to the timeline? Not really? But if it is the Wheel of Time, as you speculate, then not only does the Citadel know and understand that, then so does everyone in Westeros. Which just doesn't make sense. And does the wheel of time turn on a normal schedule, like a moon cycle? That I find hard to comprehend. 

That is why I am now wondering if the ToH actually happened in the Winter (near the end, whatever), and everyone knew it was still Winter, even though the weather was improving. After the ToH, then the Citadel declared Spring had arrived, and Spring lasts two months but THEN Winter returned with a vengeance. Which does hint a bit at the Stark's being somehow involved, but what did they need to seek vengeance for that happened at least two months, maybe more, after the end of the tourney? Perhaps by then it was obvious that someone was expecting a child? I am not sure that fit's either. Hhmmm!