Rhom Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Jeor said: I quite enjoyed Aquaman and think it was the second best DC film (after Wonder Woman). In general terms I agree the MCU is much more about the whole universe whereas DC tends to be a bit more individualistic, hence more hit and miss than Marvel which is more consistent. Back in the 80s/90s I collected Marvel comics and virtually no DC ones. But I always got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Marvel were generally team-based titles (X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four etc), notwithstanding Spiderman etc. Whereas it seems that DC were often built around singular heroes (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman). So it seems natural to me that this type of philosophy spills over into the movies. I think I generally had that same impression on team vs solo. Which makes it really interesting that Marvel built their universe by five solo movies followed by their first team outing. While DC launched Man of Steel and really seemed to shoehorn him immediately into a team-up followed by the ensemble film with solo outings to spin off later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I’m still convinced Marvel activated a sleeper agent at DC at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 19 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: Larson and [not Nick Fury] Jackson didn't pull in the crowds for Kong, and that was a good movie. To be fair, I think pretty much everyone expected that movie to suck, which probably hurt its box office numbers. I expect Captain Marvel to be good, because every fucking Marvel movie these days is at least good, and I imagine most people who watch these movies regularly are in a similar boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rhom said: I think I generally had that same impression on team vs solo. Which makes it really interesting that Marvel built their universe by five solo movies followed by their first team outing. While DC launched Man of Steel and really seemed to shoehorn him immediately into a team-up followed by the ensemble film with solo outings to spin off later. It's because, rather thank take the time to slowly and smartly build their universe like Marvel did, DC wanted to skip ahead and catch up to Marvel. This naturally backfired, because you can't expect people to just magically care about characters you have given them zero reason to care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 19 hours ago, polishgenius said: Also think it's absurd to suggest that Momoa's star power was a key to how successful Aquaman was. Sure, he was in GoT, but he finished seven years ago, wasn't a star when it finished, and no other film he's been in before Justice League has been a hit. By far his highest earner was a Conan remake that was obviously released to tie in just after GoT came out, at 50mil worldwide (half of its budget) and only one other thing he's made crossed ten million, most of them not even making a million. Justice League helped, but it's Aquaman that's made him a star, not the other way around. What it comes down to is that DC/WB might be confused about how to make their movies but they're really really good at marketing them, individually. Marvel have sacrificed a little bit of that, for the whole. I think we both agree that DC/WB have been very good at marketing their movies, and that has been the central tenant to their success (it certainly hasn't been built on making good movies). I'd say that Momoa might not have the star power of a Ryan Gosling or Brad Pitt in in his prime, but Momoa is hugely marketable and his face and bod have been at the core of every bit of marketing they have made. I doubt anyone went to see this movie for its plot or even for the character of Aquaman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, briantw said: It's because, rather thank take the time to slowly and smartly build their universe like Marvel did, DC wanted to skip ahead and catch up to Marvel. This naturally backfired, because you can't expect people to just magically care about characters you have given them zero reason to care about. While this is true, the real crime of the DC movies is that didn't even bother to create proper movies, instead there is the sense that each film is nothing more than an attempt to build up the next upcoming franchise entry. Batman vs Superman at times made almost no sense each time there was an odd detour to tell us about other heroes or what was happening in the world. There were so many pulls on the story that it broke apart. At least Marvel movies have a way of integrating each movie into the others without it feeling too obviously crowbarred in ( a few notable exceptions being in Ultron) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Heartofice said: While this is true, the real crime of the DC movies is that didn't even bother to create proper movies, instead there is the sense that each film is nothing more than an attempt to build up the next upcoming franchise entry. Batman vs Superman at times made almost no sense each time there was an odd detour to tell us about other heroes or what was happening in the world. There were so many pulls on the story that it broke apart. At least Marvel movies have a way of integrating each movie into the others without it feeling too obviously crowbarred in ( a few notable exceptions being in Ultron) It's a shame it's looking like we're never going to get a proper version of the Batman from Batman v Superman, though, because I thought Affleck was basically the only good thing about that movie. That scene where he destroys an entire squad of goons is the best part of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, briantw said: It's a shame it's looking like we're never going to get a proper version of the Batman from Batman v Superman, though, because I thought Affleck was basically the only good thing about that movie. That scene where he destroys an entire squad of goons is the best part of the movie. Agree, and I thought Affleck had real potential as Bruce Wayne too. I've always preferred the slightly grumpy version of Wayne, especially from Batman Beyond, and Batffleck would have done that really well. I think the series pivoted away from that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: Agree, and I thought Affleck had real potential as Bruce Wayne too. I've always preferred the slightly grumpy version of Wayne, especially from Batman Beyond, and Batffleck would have done that really well. I think the series pivoted away from that anyway. I never really understood why DC's original plan was to launch with a Batman who'd already had all the cool stuff happen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, briantw said: I never really understood why DC's original plan was to launch with a Batman who'd already had all the cool stuff happen to him. Anything is better than another origin story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Anything is better than another origin story. Didn't need to be an origin story. Just start him out a year or two into his Batman career where he's mostly been dealing with petty thugs and organized crime up to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, briantw said: Didn't need to be an origin story. Just start him out a year or two into his Batman career where he's mostly been dealing with petty thugs and organized crime up to that point. I'm more than happy to see an older Batman, although I would criticise Nolan for jumping too quickly into 'broken Bruce Wayne' mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: I'm more than happy to see an older Batman, although I would criticise Nolan for jumping too quickly into 'broken Bruce Wayne' mode. I'm fine with an older Batman, but holy shit the one in BvS was so disenchanted that he was straight killing people without flinching and he'd already apparently had a Robin killed. Just seems silly to start your franchise with Batman that far into his Batman career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, briantw said: I'm fine with an older Batman, but holy shit the one in BvS was so disenchanted that he was straight killing people without flinching and he'd already apparently had a Robin killed. Just seems silly to start your franchise with Batman that far into his Batman career. Or at least do something with it if that's the choice you make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, briantw said: I'm fine with an older Batman, but holy shit the one in BvS was so disenchanted that he was straight killing people without flinching and he'd already apparently had a Robin killed. Just seems silly to start your franchise with Batman that far into his Batman career. They were basically just trying to do their own thing, whilst still ripping off The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel. I think it might have just been better to do a straight adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: They were basically just trying to do their own thing, whilst still ripping off The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel. I think it might have just been better to do a straight adaptation. They did, and it also sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 hours ago, briantw said: I'm fine with an older Batman, but holy shit the one in BvS was so disenchanted that he was straight killing people without flinching and he'd already apparently had a Robin killed. Wha? My attention was certainly divided when I "watched" BvS, don't remember any allusion to a Robin, nor him being killed. When'd that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, DMC said: Wha? My attention was certainly divided when I "watched" BvS, don't remember any allusion to a Robin, nor him being killed. When'd that happen? Might have been in Suicide Squad? Either way I think it was canon wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, DMC said: Wha? My attention was certainly divided when I "watched" BvS, don't remember any allusion to a Robin, nor him being killed. When'd that happen? His suit is on display , torn up to show he was killed, think it had been graffiti’d , the assumption it was by the Joker, and that explains Batman’s bad temper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, briantw said: Might have been in Suicide Squad? Oh did Leto's Joker allude to it? I "watched" that one as well, and while I don't specifically remember that, sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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