D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said: By all means, do the ol' Texas Two Step around my question. Lawful doesn't always mean wise or best. Anyway, the legalities is something you are trying to throw in there evidently at the last minute. I don't recall this ever being a dispute about Dany's lawful jurisdiction over treason cases. No need to two step, she is the Queen of the reach, and as citizens of the reach the Tarly's were committing treason by recognizing another crown. She did what Jon did when Slint refused to recognize his authority, execute them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, D-Shiznit said: No need to two step, she is the Queen of the reach, and as citizens of the reach the Tarly's were committing treason by recognizing another crown. She did what Jon did when Slint refused to recognize his authority, execute them. Uh so they were executed for treason and not bending the knee? That is your assertion here? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, divica said: Do people really want to use the stannis exemple? He burned mance and the wildlings hated him for it… IT was a bad pr move... Evidently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said: Uh so they were executed for treason and not bending the knee? That is your assertion here? Right? She was given sovereignty over the Reach by the the Tarly's liege house, the Warden of South, by acknowledging another crown and refusing to recognize her authority, they were committing open treason. They were punished accordingly, just like Slint was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: LMAO. Dany doesn't have any authority over the Reach, because House Tyrell lost to the Lannisters, this is nonsense. Not only are there no more Tyrells, but the Lannisters are now in control of Highgarden, so by your definition, that would make Dany the one committing treason against the Lannister and the Queen's bannermen, the Tarlys. Or, you could just admit that she killed them because they wouldn't bend the knee. Yes we have been over this, there are no more Tyrells because the Tarly's betrayed them and helped killed them. lol We have no idea who holds Highgarden now because the show never explained the political aftermath of Dany massacring the Lannister forces. Because really the Reach doesn't matter any more so no need to fill in those details Also can anyone explain to me when House Tyrell ever swore fealty to Cersei Lannister the First of her Name? I am going to guess they never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, D-Shiznit said: She was given sovereignty over the Reach by the the Tarly's liege house, the Warden of South, by acknowledging another crown and refusing to recognize her authority, they were committing open treason. They were punished accordingly, just like Slint was. Just like a broken record. Keep repeating the same thing over and over and hope people will buy it. Repetition doesn't make this argument any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, darmody said: Jon swore allegiance under the pretence that she is the rightful heir of the Mad King. If it turns out he's ahead of her in line, I don't think his oath would preclude him from claiming the crown. I don’t think Jon cares about restoring Targaryen rule. He swore allegiance to Dany because of her actions when she rescued his team beyond the wall. I don’t see Jon breaking that Oath. If she dies I think he will try to claim it. If they both live she will be the Queen. He would be the consort if they marry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said: No need to two step, she is the Queen of the reach, and as citizens of the reach the Tarly's were committing treason by recognizing another crown. She did what Jon did when Slint refused to recognize his authority, execute them. Dany never mentioned the word "treason", not to Randyl, not the other survivors who surrendered, not to Dickon, not to Sam. In your mind you may consider them "traitors" and justify Dany's murder of them as "well, they were traitors", but that is not the reason they were murdered. She did so because they didn't recognize her as their queen. The show could have done the same thing with Dany doing that to a Westerland House (who provides the Lannister soldiers) standing amongst them, except their son wouldn't be Jon's BF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darmody Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said: That's how POWs work in GOT, Stannis made the same offer to the Mance Raider. Mance Rayder declared himself King Beyond the Wall and was a Wildling. Clearly Wildlings don't have the same rights as subjects of the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Dany never mentioned the word "treason", not to Randyl, not the other survivors who surrendered, not to Dickon, not to Sam. In your mind you may consider them "traitors" and justify Dany's murder of them as "well, they were traitors", but that is not the reason they were murdered. She did so because they didn't recognize her as their queen. The show could have done the same thing with Dany doing that to a Westerland House (who provides the Lannister soldiers) standing amongst them, except their son wouldn't be Jon's BF. Bingo. Treason is something Dany fans have made up to justify her killing the Tarlys. This isn't what she says at the time, she flames them for refusing to bend the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Bingo. Treason is something Dany fans have made up to justify her killing the Tarlys. This isn't what she says at the time, she flames them for refusing to bend the knee. Exactly, and she reiterates that to Sam, "I offered them to bend the knee and they refused." And by Sam's response and reasoning to Jon, as well as Varys and Tyrion's we have 3 people who grew up in Westeros each being disturbed by it or seeing it as problematic, 2 of those of quite old noble houses in Westeros and not one of them thinks "Well that's normal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Snow Stark Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Exactly, and she reiterates that to Sam, "I offered them to bend the knee and they refused." And by Sam's response and reasoning to Jon, as well as Varys and Tyrion's we have 3 people who grew up in Westeros each being disturbed by it or seeing it as problematic, 2 of those of quite old noble houses in Westeros and not one of them thinks "Well that's normal". She said she would break the wheel. She never said it would be good thing. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Hmmm, let's revisit that scene... "Bend the knee and join me, or refuse and die." Bow or burn. Dany twice says that this is the only choice. Drogon roars which forces/scares people to bow, the Tarly's are burnt, and Daenerys looks to the other men (soliders/smallfolk/people) who are still standing, she gives them a stare, and they bow because they don't want to burn. Why have the showrunners continued with this issue after last season? Why is this still a topic of discussion on the show? If this was a faux issue it would have been resolved last season, but here it is. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said: The longer this goes it just sounds like a forum poster's own personal views. House Tyrell and House Lannister spent like five seasons breaking oaths to each other so where did the treason start? She executed - excuse me, murdered since D&D are using this word now - prisoners for not kneeling to her. That's the only reason the show gives. Any random soldier could have stood up and she'd do the same to him. Is this in one of those behind the episode things where they explain what should be shown in the episode? If so, do you remember which one? I never get to watch them and am curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said: She said she would break the wheel. She never said it would be good thing. Lol. The "normal" was in reference to the claim that's how GOT deals with POW as a standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: Is this in one of those behind the episode things where they explain what should be shown in the episode? If so, do you remember which one? I never get to watch them and am curious. It's in the behind the episode of the season 8 premiere, when they get into Sam's scene with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: It's in the behind the episode of the season 8 premiere, when they get into Sam's scene with her. Ah. I have not been able to watch that yet. I only seem to get them after the next day when/if I watch an episode On Demand. I will check it out. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Found it online now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said: Hmmm, let's revisit that scene... "Bend the knee and join me, or refuse and die." Bow or burn. Dany twice says that this is the only choice. Ah, but she didn't say, "And I really mean it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 It is interesting that the showrunners used the term 'murder'. Of course they don't always know what they're talking about even though they write the show, but it seems to close out this moronic debate about treason as the excuse. The showrunners called it murder. In the segment she specifically states she's killing them if they refuse to bend the knee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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