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Risto

Discussing Sansa XXXV: Queens of Ice and Fire

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Posted (edited)

The thread dedicated to discussion of Sansa Stark, or at least, it's iteration in TV show. The episode will bring us the much-awaited conversation between Dany and Sansa, as well as Jaime's trial. Will the two women finally resolve their issues?

 

As I understand, there is a leak of tonight's episode. Given the forum's policy about leaks and spoilers, I would ask everyone to refrain from sharing the spoilers until the episode is aired. Thanks.

 

Edited by Risto

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i think dany and sansa will start to work together. i have a  feeling sansa will stand up for jamie at the trial. 

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There was a leak? Good thing I didn't see it. I'm excited for this episode. And I agree with @princess brittany. I think Sansa will stand up for Jaime.

 

I do also hope Dany and Sansa works together. I may dislike Dany but I want there to not be all that bs Winterfell drama.

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Hmmm so I was wrong. Sansa agreed with Dany. But she did change her mind after Brienne. Which is nice. I'm glad she trusts Brienne's opinion.

 

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Sansa shows some sense and solicits Brienne's opinion of Jaime.  Daenerys looks put out, but she's deferring to the Lady of Winterfell and the Warden of the North.

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That Theon and Sansa reunion broke my heart. Those two are just. Ahh. Platonic Theon and Sansa is one of my favorite pairings. 

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Well, that was it. Before the Long Night.

I wasn't surprised that Sansa and Dany agreed about Jaime. There is no reason for Sansa to want Jaime alive. And Brienne interfering and saying her mind ultimately tipped the scale here. It really shows the connections Starks have. And Dany really looked like an outsider in this episode. Especially with Jaime and later with Theon.

The reunion with Theon was amazing. Those two together are so beautiful and so poignant and they simply allow the unsaid to flow in the air. The last scene with the two of them outside, eating... That was heartwarming.

And there is the talk. I find it odd that Sansa would push for independent North, but it seems it is also a personal struggle. It is almost like she identifies with North. Someone has taken her power, her agency, her status and she has rebuilt it. Sansa doesn't want to relinquish that power, that sense of control, that agency, not after everything she survived. Dany did the right thing, Jorah's advice was rather good, but again we reached an impasse. I think these two care for each other, or at least respect each other. It is just that their goals are fundamentally opposite. And that's kinda sad.

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4 minutes ago, Risto said:

Well, that was it. Before the Long Night.

I wasn't surprised that Sansa and Dany agreed about Jaime. There is no reason for Sansa to want Jaime alive. And Brienne interfering and saying her mind ultimately tipped the scale here. It really shows the connections Starks have. And Dany really looked like an outsider in this episode. Especially with Jaime and later with Theon.

The reunion with Theon was amazing. Those two together are so beautiful and so poignant and they simply allow the unsaid to flow in the air. The last scene with the two of them outside, eating... That was heartwarming.

And there is the talk. I find it odd that Sansa would push for independent North, but it seems it is also a personal struggle. It is almost like she identifies with North. Someone has taken her power, her agency, her status and she has rebuilt it. Sansa doesn't want to relinquish that power, that sense of control, that agency, not after everything she survived. Dany did the right thing, Jorah's advice was rather good, but again we reached an impasse. I think these two care for each other, or at least respect each other. It is just that their goals are fundamentally opposite. And that's kinda sad.

The Theon and Sansa reunion was beautiful. I love the two of them together and I always want them to be best friends. I think the two of them are the only two who truly understand what the other has been through.

 

I can see why Sansa would push for an independent North, actually. Out of all the living Starks she's the one who has bled the most for an independent North--first in King's Landing as a punishment every time Robb won a battle and then dealing with Ramsay, the Battle of the Bastards, and now with Dany here. So it can make sense to me. Plus an independent North is like, safety, in a way.

I'm glad the two aren't catty anymore, though.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Risto said:

Well, that was it. Before the Long Night.

I wasn't surprised that Sansa and Dany agreed about Jaime. There is no reason for Sansa to want Jaime alive. And Brienne interfering and saying her mind ultimately tipped the scale here. It really shows the connections Starks have. And Dany really looked like an outsider in this episode. Especially with Jaime and later with Theon.

The reunion with Theon was amazing. Those two together are so beautiful and so poignant and they simply allow the unsaid to flow in the air. The last scene with the two of them outside, eating... That was heartwarming.

And there is the talk. I find it odd that Sansa would push for independent North, but it seems it is also a personal struggle. It is almost like she identifies with North. Someone has taken her power, her agency, her status and she has rebuilt it. Sansa doesn't want to relinquish that power, that sense of control, that agency, not after everything she survived. Dany did the right thing, Jorah's advice was rather good, but again we reached an impasse. I think these two care for each other, or at least respect each other. It is just that their goals are fundamentally opposite. And that's kinda sad.

 

Also, Sansa witnessed the strength, the will, of the Stark bannermen calling for an independent Northern kingdom under Stark rule; and does not want to just hand it over to the Dragon Queen just because Daenerys sets out to charm her.  I thought the Sansa/Dany scene was one of the best of the episode, and one of the best scenes I've seen from Sansa in a long time.  Sansa shows strength and courage; while no other Stark or Stark bannermen can see or hear her, she speaks for the North as a Stark daughter.

Edited by Raksha 2014

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I didn’t think Sansa’s “I should have thanked you” was sincere. And Dany ripping her hand away felt like this is going to pick up again after E3.

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Just now, Starkblack said:

I didn’t think Sansa’s “I should have thanked you” was sincere. And Dany ripping her hand away felt like this is going to pick up again after E3.

Well, I disagree. Sansa was honest, but simply, they want different things.

 

6 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Also, Sansa witnessed the strength, the will, of the Stark bannermen calling for an independent Northern kingdom under Stark rule; and does not want to just hand it over to the Dragon Queen just because Daenerys sets out to charm her.  I thought the Sansa/Dany scene was one of the best of the episode, and one of the best scenes I've seen from Sansa in a long time.  Sansa shows strength and courage; while no other Stark or Stark bannermen can see or hear her, she speaks for the North as a Stark daughter.

Exactly. It is very empowering to witness that, to understand that the people would put their lives in your hands. Dany also had those moments, so she must understand. I think the way she looked at Theon make her closer to conclusion that these people have history, that something, actually a lot happened before her and that she has to respect that. 

9 minutes ago, Pandean said:

I can see why Sansa would push for an independent North, actually. Out of all the living Starks she's the one who has bled the most for an independent North--first in King's Landing as a punishment every time Robb won a battle and then dealing with Ramsay, the Battle of the Bastards, and now with Dany here. So it can make sense to me. Plus an independent North is like, safety, in a way.

That is also an argument. I feel it is more to it than plain "I am not bending my knee". I feel that for Sansa independent North means more than just being in a position of power. It is about all that she and the entire North, with her family has been through. And she just wants to make them safe. 

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I am more interested in finding out if Dany will view this conversation differently, now that she know's Jon's parentage.

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16 minutes ago, willowbark said:

I am more interested in finding out if Dany will view this conversation differently, now that she know's Jon's parentage.

yeah it will be interesting.

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

This was the fakest shit since Marg/Cersei. And Sansa looks like she just figured out a secret.

Which part?

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Just now, Pandean said:

Which part?

"So who manipulated who?"

She originally thought Jon was being manipulated by Dany, but after that speech about how Jon made Dany divert from her life long quest and how she's only there for him, it sounded like Jon manipulated her. So she got the answer to the question she posed to Jon in the last episode.

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

"So who manipulated who?"

She originally thought Jon was being manipulated by Dany, but after that speech about how Jon made Dany divert from her life long quest and how she's only there for him, it sounded like Jon manipulated her. So she got the answer to the question she posed to Jon in the last episode.

I'm not sure. I still think Jon bent the knee more because he was thinking with his dick and felt bad because one of Dany's dragon died than anything.

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1 minute ago, Pandean said:

I'm not sure. I still think Jon bent the knee more because he was thinking with his dick and felt bad because one of Dany's dragon died than anything.

True, we still don't know why he did it. But I cant see Jon offering that as a real explanation. Otherwise he already lied to the Northern lords. So if he could lie to them, he couldn't lie to Dany? Its all very weird. Could just be bad writing but Sansa really did have a look of realization on her face.

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I noticed that Jon told Daenerys of his true parentage before telling Arya and Sansa, his remaining family (Bran of course, already knowing).  Isn't that a sign that Jon is more concerned with Daenerys and her feelings than he is about what his sister/cousins and the North might think?

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56 minutes ago, willowbark said:

I am more interested in finding out if Dany will view this conversation differently, now that she know's Jon's parentage.

I think the real point Sansa was making was that the Starks having raised their banners for an independent North, they are constrained by the expectations of their supporters. So it is not a question of Sansa bending the knee. If Jon's bending the knee didn't change matters, Sansa can't change things either.

Jon's parentage makes things easier for Danny in many ways. If Jon becomes king of the seven kingdoms, it is the North taking the other six, not the other way round. They have crowned him King in the North after all.

At the end of the day, Danny has two dragons which was the original basis of Targaryan power. Given the challenges of running seven kingdoms, it makes little difference whether Jon or Danny is king or queen in their own right and which is consort. They could even both rule like William and Mary did (and for the same reason).

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