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On 4/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Rickon comes back from Skagos mounted on a Unicorn?.....

Well we've got one dude riding an elk already and people regularly riding zorses. Don't think it would be out of the realm of possibility. REally I wanna see a fantasy work where unicorns are rhinos. 

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On 4/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Thoughts?

"Goat" is the interpretation that Ghost (or Shaggy Dog) does of the beast during a wolf's dream. It's not to meant an actual goat, as much swords and armors are not "man-claws and hardskin" (ACOK, Bran VII).

Since GRRM uses pre-historical beasts in his world, I suggest the Siberian Unicorn:

New fossils suggest unicorns might have been real | San Francisco Chronicle
Elasmotherium | Wikipedia

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On 4/26/2019 at 8:26 AM, rotting sea cow said:

Ah... there was a long thread some time ago. It depends on how you think Osha and Rickon reached Skagos, which is not clear at all. It smells a little like a retcon.

look here

 

Thanks, it was an interesting reread.

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Posted (edited)

From  The World of Ice and Fire: The North, the Stoneborn of Skagos

Quote

The "unicorns" of Skagos were once scoffed at by maesters at the Citadel. The occasional "unicorn horn" offered by disreputable merchants has never been more than the horn of a kind of whale hunted by the whalers of Ib. However, horns of quite a different kind—reputed to be from Skagos—have been seen by the maesters at Eastwatch upon occasion. It is also said that those seafarers brave enough to trade on Skagos have glimpsed the stoneborn lords riding great, shaggy, horned beasts, monstrous mounts so sure-footed they have been known to climb the sides of mountains. A living example of such a creature—or even a skeleton—has long been sought for study, but none has ever been brought to Oldtown.

:Beyond the free cities: the grasslands

Quote

Some maesters believe that the First Men originated here before beginning the long westward migration that took them across the Arm of Dorne to Westeros. The Andals, too, may have arisen in the fertile fields south of the Silver Sea. Tales are told of the Hairy Men, a race of shaggy savage warriors, who rode to battle on unicorns. Though larger than the Ibbenese of the present, they may well have been their forebears.

:Beyond the free cities; Ib

Quote

 Ib is the second largest island in the known world; only Great Moraq, between the Jade and Summer Seas, is larger. Stony and mountainous, Ib is a land of great grey mountains, ancient forests, and rushing rivers, its dark interior a haunt of bears and wolves. Giants once dwelt on Ib, we are told, but none remain—though mammoths still roam the island's plains and hills, and in the higher mountains, some claim unicorns can be found.

 Add these descriptions from the world book to the dream Ghost has of Shaggy fighting the "Giant Goat"

 

Edited by The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, CAllDSmith said:

REally I wanna see a fantasy work where unicorns are rhinos. 

Hairy rhinos the size of a horse. :drool:

Else one puts ones knees in stirrups.

EDIT: horsing around information ---- The word destrier does not refer to a breed, but to a type of horse: the finest and strongest warhorse. ... The destrier was specifically for use in battle or tournament; for everyday riding, a knight would use a palfrey, and his baggage would be carried on a sumpter horse (or packhorse), or possibly in wagons.    A garron or garran, from Gaelic gearran, is a type of a small sturdy horse or pony. The term occurs in Scotland and in Ireland, and generally refers to an undersized beast. In Scotland, a garron is one of the types of Highland pony. It is the larger, heavier type bred on the mainland.

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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On 4/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Martin: “I have an interesting take on unicorns coming up in the new books. [smiles] Oops.”

I just had a moment of  :rolleyes:  because  martin's "oops" moment while talking to Tyson does not = unicorn = Skagos = Rickon = Davos on Manderly's quest to bring the lord home.

Manderly had a partnership with Umber and they combined their resources to built a fleet together.

Manderly's WH men are not experienced sailors.

Davos has experience as a smuggler.

Paraphrasing, Manderly says bring me my liege lord and I will side with Stannis.

The seas are stormy up in that area of Westeros.

Saan is upset about losing ships. Saan is the one who transported Davos from Eastwatch. A NW guy sent Jon a message about shipwrecks and dead things in the water.

Davos' last snuggling job was to sneak Mel under Storms End. Before that Davos smuggled food to Stannis at Storm's End during Robert's Rebellion.

If Rickon is presently residing on Skagos why does Manderly need a smuggler?

Are Rickon, his direwolf and Osha prisoners of Skagos?

Did Manderly give Davos one ship of inexperienced seamen or many ships of inexperienced seamen?

Just because there is a crazy wolf dream where even the moon talks does not mean Rickon is on Skagos. The crazy dream merely talks of Rickon's black wolf eating an enormous goat.

Five books, not extra money generating material, is there something in the five books proper other than Wex throwing a knife at a map that leads one to think Rickon is on Skagos? Or is this another Bloodraven aka Brynden Rivers deal where one needs to read the extra material to fully understand wtf martin is talking about?

 

Quote

 

Dance with Dragons - Jon I

"Snow," the moon murmured. The wolf made no answer.

Snow crunched beneath his paws. The wind sighed through the trees.

Far off, he could hear his packmates calling to him, like to like.

They were hunting too.

A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him.

In another place, his little sister lifted her head to sing to the moon, and a hundred small grey cousins broke off their hunt to sing with her.

The hills were warmer where they were, and full of food.

Many a night his sister's pack gorged on the flesh of sheep and cows and horses, the prey of men, and sometimes even on the flesh of man himself.

"Snow," the moon called down again, cackling.

The white wolf padded along the man trail beneath the icy cliff. The taste of blood was on his tongue, and his ears rang to the song of the hundred cousins.

Once they had been six, five whimpering blind in the snow beside their dead mother, sucking cool milk from her hard dead nipples whilst he crawled off alone.

Four remained … and one the white wolf could no longer sense./


 

 

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

If Rickon is presently residing on Skagos why does Manderly need a smuggler?

Are Rickon, his direwolf and Osha prisoners of Skagos?

Did Manderly give Davos one ship of inexperienced seamen or many ships of inexperienced seamen?

The rocks around Skagos have already claimed half a dozen ships at least, as I recall. Davos is experienced at moving small ships in shallow, choppy waters. That's why Manderly needs Davos. That and there's no risk of Manderly losing anyone he can't afford to lose by sending them to an island of cannibals. 

As for your other comment about the wolf dreams, go back to ACOK to the chapter where Jon first wargs. Then go and read the Bran chapter before that where Bran opens Jon's eyes. And also note that goats don't have one horn. 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, CAllDSmith said:

The rocks around Skagos have already claimed half a dozen ships at least, as I recall.

Davos is experienced at moving small ships in shallow, choppy waters.

That's why Manderly needs Davos.

That and there's no risk of Manderly losing anyone he can't afford to lose by sending them to an island of cannibals. 

I think I mentioned in a round about manner that there have been problems with choppy seas.

Davos is experienced at moving small boats from big ships as the large ships sit safe somewhere in deep water --- row u boat glides into cave or cove after leaving mother ship.

If Rickon is presently residing on Skagos why does Manderly need a smuggler?

Are Rickon, his direwolf and Osha prisoners of Skagos?

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, CAllDSmith said:

As for your other comment about the wolf dreams, go back to ACOK to the chapter where Jon first wargs. Then go and read the Bran chapter before that where Bran opens Jon's eyes. And also note that goats don't have one horn. 

OHHHHHHHHHHHH, you got sum biggins.  Please, I dunna know where to begin. Can you help me with book and chapter? Thanks in advance.

Well that is this the unicorn problem, ain't it.

Oppps.

Maybe martin is going to resurrect a Scottish unicorn.

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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The Maesters in the Citadel are skeptical about unicorns on Skagos and they have never managed to secure a live unicorn specimen or even a skeleton.  Most unicorn "horns" that they have inspected have actually been from a whale which is likely similar to the narwhal in our world. 

 

Quote

The World of Ice and Fire - The North: The Stoneborn of Skagos

The "unicorns" of Skagos were once scoffed at by maesters at the Citadel. The occasional "unicorn horn" offered by disreputable merchants has never been more than the horn of a kind of whale hunted by the whalers of Ib. However, horns of quite a different kind—reputed to be from Skagos—have been seen by the maesters at Eastwatch upon occasion. It is also said that those seafarers brave enough to trade on Skagos have glimpsed the stoneborn lords riding great, shaggy, horned beasts, monstrous mounts so sure-footed they have been known to climb the sides of mountains. A living example of such a creature—or even a skeleton—has long been sought for study, but none has ever been brought to Oldtown.

 

Those Maesters in Oldtown should ask the Wildlings for some help.  A unicorn skull was part of the payment that the Wildlings made when Jon allowed them to pass south through the Wall.

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

As they passed, each warrior stripped off his treasures and tossed them into one of the carts that the stewards had placed before the gate. Amber pendants, golden torques, jeweled daggers, silver brooches set with gemstones, bracelets, rings, niello cups and golden goblets, warhorns and drinking horns, a green jade comb, a necklace of freshwater pearls … all yielded up and noted down by Bowen Marsh. One man surrendered a shirt of silver scales that had surely been made for some great lord. Another produced a broken sword with three sapphires in the hilt.

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn. How much food such things would buy in the Free Cities, Jon Snow could not begin to say.

 

 

 

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for those who have not watched Tyson's Star Talk featuring martin Westeros.org has a link.

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Star_Talk

Go to westeros.org

look at the right side of the screen

under the citadel you will find the link

click and enjoy

ps  on my puter it is a slow load --- wait patiently

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38 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Those Maesters in Oldtown should ask the Wildlings for some help.  A unicorn skull was part of the payment that the Wildlings made when Jon allowed them to pass south through the Wall.

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

As they passed, each warrior stripped off his treasures and tossed them into one of the carts that the stewards had placed before the gate. Amber pendants, golden torques, jeweled daggers, silver brooches set with gemstones, bracelets, rings, niello cups and golden goblets, warhorns and drinking horns, a green jade comb, a necklace of freshwater pearls … all yielded up and noted down by Bowen Marsh. One man surrendered a shirt of silver scales that had surely been made for some great lord. Another produced a broken sword with three sapphires in the hilt.

And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn. How much food such things would buy in the Free Cities, Jon Snow could not begin to say.

 

 

That is interesting.  A quote from one of the five books which is suppose to be a seven book saga. Thanks.  :)

_____________________

This next part is not directed to the ^ poster. 

It is merely an attempt to try to define martin's unicorn. The infamous quote from DwD John I.

A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him.

Is that quote martin's direwolf speak identifying a goat? Granted it may be an enormous prehistoric Westeros goat with one horn.

How does a person move from that to Manderly telling Davos ---- For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested ---- mean that Rickon is on Skaggos?

My pov bringing out tinfoil and cracked pottery is sumbody be it martin, Wex or Manderly is fibbing --- kinda reminds me of three books worth of Eddard's baby momma drama --- yeah, I was slow and din't figure out first read that Eddard wasn't Jon's daddy.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

That is interesting.  A quote from one of the five books which is suppose to be a seven book saga. Thanks.  :)

_____________________

This next part is not directed to the ^ poster. 

It is merely an attempt to try to define martin's unicorn. The infamous quote from DwD John I.

A wild rain lashed down upon his black brother as he tore at the flesh of an enormous goat, washing the blood from his side where the goat's long horn had raked him.

Is that quote martin's direwolf speak identifying a goat? Granted it may be an enormous prehistoric Westeros goat with one horn.

How does a person move from that to Manderly telling Davos ---- For this I must have a man who’s sailed in darker waters and knows how to slip past dangers, unseen and unmolested ---- mean that Rickon is on Skaggos?

My pov bringing out tinfoil and cracked pottery is sumbody be it martin, Wex or Manderly is fibbing --- kinda reminds me of three books worth of Eddard's baby momma drama --- yeah, I was slow and din't figure out first read that Eddard wasn't Jon's daddy.

 

 

 

I don’t see it as obvious that any of them are lying.  Manderly has spent some time with Wex prior to sending Davos on his mission.  He already knows that Rickon and Shaggydog are on Skagos (According to Wex).  And despite communicating with Wex being a challenge he has probably made some effort to fact check Wex’s story. 

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32 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I don’t see it as obvious that any of them are lying.  Manderly has spent some time with Wex prior to sending Davos on his mission.  He already knows that Rickon and Shaggydog are on Skagos (According to Wex).  And despite communicating with Wex being a challenge he has probably made some effort to fact check Wex’s story. 

It is just me and my inability to what accept martin's Wex bs.

33 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I don’t see it as obvious that any of them are lying.

Either martin messed up or Manderly lied to Davos.  Manderly told Davos he needs attend a wedding at WF. The invite was to Barrowton.

43 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Manderly has spent some time with Wex prior to sending Davos on his mission.  He already knows that Rickon and Shaggydog are on Skagos (According to Wex).

According to Manderly & Glover --- Wex, the mute (unable to speak), Theon's aide, came to them illiterate after he hid in a tree, listened to a conversation betwix Luwin and Osha then followed Osha, Rickon and Shaggy.

That's all cool. Wex lost track of Osha, Rickon & direwolf and turned himself in to Manderly forces.    Questionable.  How did Wex communicated his need to be brought before Manderly.

During the brief time Manderly and Glover (remember gossip is Manderly turned Glover away) they were able to teach Wex enough letters that Wex was able to throw a knife at a map and hit a mark. Sounds like Wex was trained. OR mayhaps Wex ain't illiterate.

Look here boy, look at this map, this is Skaggos. Is that where my liege, his direwolf and this wildling woman went. Yep,. I'll thow me knife  again iffin' yous want.

48 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

And despite communicating with Wex being a challenge he has probably made some effort to fact check Wex’s story. 

Rodrick rode to WF to reclaim WF from Theon. Who was with Rodrick. I gotta flip back to book two CoK Theon V and VI.

A Clash of Kings - Theon VI    When the drawbridge was lowered, a chill wind sighed across the moat. The touch of it made him shiver. It is the cold, nothing more, Theon told himself, a shiver, not a tremble. Even brave men shiver. Into the teeth of that wind he rode, under the portcullis, over the drawbridge. The outer gates swung open to let him pass. As he emerged beneath the walls, he could sense the boys watching from the empty sockets where their eyes had been.    Ser Rodrik waited in the market astride his dappled gelding. Beside him, the direwolf of Stark flapped from a staff borne by young Cley Cerwyn. They were alone in the square, though Theon could see archers on the roofs of surrounding houses, spearmen to his right, and to his left a line of mounted knights beneath the merman-and-trident of House Manderly. Every one of them wants me dead. Some were boys he'd drunk with, diced with, even wenched with, but that would not save him if he fell into their hands. /

The above happened before Reek aka Ramsey rode in. You know, Reek, Ramsey and Theon thing where Theon goes missing until DwD and turns up as ReeK.  What say one of the men accompanying Rodrick survived Ramsey's slaughter made his way back to WH and told what he saw.

Probably didn't address any of your points. BUT hayya it is what it is. :cheers:

 

 

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21 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

It is just me and my inability to what accept martin's Wex bs.

Either martin messed up or Manderly lied to Davos.  Manderly told Davos he needs attend a wedding at WF. The invite was to Barrowton.

According to Manderly & Glover --- Wex, the mute (unable to speak), Theon's aide, came to them illiterate after he hid in a tree, listened to a conversation betwix Luwin and Osha then followed Osha, Rickon and Shaggy.

That's all cool. Wex lost track of Osha, Rickon & direwolf and turned himself in to Manderly forces.    Questionable.  How did Wex communicated his need to be brought before Manderly.

During the brief time Manderly and Glover (remember gossip is Manderly turned Glover away) they were able to teach Wex enough letters that Wex was able to throw a knife at a map and hit a mark. Sounds like Wex was trained. OR mayhaps Wex ain't illiterate.

Look here boy, look at this map, this is Skaggos. Is that where my liege, his direwolf and this wildling woman went. Yep,. I'll thow me knife  again iffin' yous want.

Rodrick rode to WF to reclaim WF from Theon. Who was with Rodrick. I gotta flip back to book two CoK Theon V and VI.

A Clash of Kings - Theon VI    When the drawbridge was lowered, a chill wind sighed across the moat. The touch of it made him shiver. It is the cold, nothing more, Theon told himself, a shiver, not a tremble. Even brave men shiver. Into the teeth of that wind he rode, under the portcullis, over the drawbridge. The outer gates swung open to let him pass. As he emerged beneath the walls, he could sense the boys watching from the empty sockets where their eyes had been.    Ser Rodrik waited in the market astride his dappled gelding. Beside him, the direwolf of Stark flapped from a staff borne by young Cley Cerwyn. They were alone in the square, though Theon could see archers on the roofs of surrounding houses, spearmen to his right, and to his left a line of mounted knights beneath the merman-and-trident of House Manderly. Every one of them wants me dead. Some were boys he'd drunk with, diced with, even wenched with, but that would not save him if he fell into their hands. /

The above happened before Reek aka Ramsey rode in. You know, Reek, Ramsey and Theon thing where Theon goes missing until DwD and turns up as ReeK.  What say one of the men accompanying Rodrick survived Ramsey's slaughter made his way back to WH and told what he saw.

Probably didn't address any of your points. BUT hayya it is what it is. :cheers:

 

 

Why do resist believing that Wex saw what he saw and did what he did?  He climbed the heart tree to escape being noticed during the sack of Winterfell and from that vantage point was able to listen to the conversation between Osha, Bran and the Reed siblings before they split up and he decides to follow Osha and Rickon.  A survivor from Ser Rodrick's company wouldn't have learned any of that information.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Why do resist believing that Wex saw what he saw and did what he did?

He climbed the heart tree to escape being noticed during the sack of Winterfell and from that vantage point was able to listen to the conversation between Osha, Bran and the Reed siblings before they split up and he decides to follow Osha and Rickon.

A survivor from Ser Rodrick's company wouldn't have learned any of that information.

I don't resist the idea Wex was hiding up a tree and overhearing Osha and Luwin's conversation.

Osha is an experienced spearwife, a fighter, not a lay down spread the legs girl.

Rickon's direwolf has an increased canine sense of smell. As an anecdote my dog drew my attention to the pantry to find a rotten potato before the disgusting smell even reached the level I could sniff it out.

From my pov --- Shaggy and Osha would know if Wex was following them.

Soooooo, for conversational sake let's go further down the endless rabbit hole.

When Theon first mentions Wex martin uses the word dumb instead of mute. That "dumb" is an old school reference to mute. I don't know the proper politically correct  21st century word for individuals who canna speak other than mute.

A Clash of Kings - Theon II     "Time to go," Theon announced. When the boy paid him no mind, he seized him by the ear and pulled him from the game. Wex grabbed up a fistful of coppers and came along without a word. That was one of the things Theon liked best about him. Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb . . . which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be. He was a baseborn son of one of Lord Botley's half brothers. Taking him as squire had been part of the price Theon had paid for his horse./

Dumb, would describe Theon in his heyday before Ramsey turned Theon into Reek.

I digress.

Repeat --- from my pov --- Shaggy and Osha would know if Wex was following them. Osha and Shaggy would have clamped down on Wex in a heart beat.

Let me move on to  Manderly, Glover, and Davos in DwD.

Theon and Wex had disappeared from martin's story in book two. Theon (Reek) and Wex show up again in book five, DwD.

By the old and the new gods I am hoping I got that correct.

During DwD Martin via Davos gives a bit of a gossipy recap of what has been transpiring in Westeros.

A Dance with Dragons - Davos II     Most of what he heard he'd learned in Sisterton, from Lord Godric or the denizens of the Belly of the Whale. Tywin Lannister was dead, butchered by his dwarf son; his corpse had stunk so badly that no one had been able to enter the Great Sept of Baelor for days afterward; the Lady of the Eyrie had been murdered by a singer; Littlefinger ruled the Vale now, but Bronze Yohn Royce had sworn to bring him down; Balon Greyjoy had died as well, and his brothers were fighting for the Seastone Chair; Sandor Clegane had turned outlaw and was plundering and killing in the lands along the Trident; Myr and Lys and Tyrosh were embroiled in another war; a slave revolt was raging in the east.      Other tidings were of greater interest. Robett Glover was in the city and had been trying to raise men, with little success. Lord Manderly had turned a deaf ear to his pleas. White Harbor was weary of war, he was reported to have said. That was bad. The Ryswells and the Dustins had surprised the ironmen on the Fever River and put their longships to the torch. That was worse. And now the Bastard of Bolton was riding south with Hother Umber to join them for an attack on Moat Cailin. "The Whoresbane his own self," claimed a riverman who'd just brought a load of hides and timber down the White Knife, "with three hundred spearmen and a hundred archers. Some Hornwood men have joined them, and Cerwyns too." That was worst of all./

Yeah, yeah, Wex. I can accept Wex is mute because via martin Wex never speaks.

What rankles me a bit is Glover leads Davos through the twists and turns to Manderly. Glover is not supposed to be there. Blah blah --- the post will get to verra long if I supply every quote.

A Dance with Dragons - Davos IV     The lad who followed Robett Glover through the door was not a Stark, nor could he ever hope to pass for one. He was older than the Young Wolf's murdered brothers, fourteen or fifteen by the look of him, and his eyes were older still. Beneath a tangle of dark brown hair his face was almost feral, with a wide mouth, sharp nose, and pointed chin. "Who are you?" Davos asked.    The boy looked to Robett Glover.   n"He is a mute, but we have been teaching him his letters. He learns quickly." Glover drew a dagger from his belt and gave it to the boy. "Write your name for Lord Seaworth."/

There have been two questions I have been asking --- one is how did Wex come to be in the possession of Manderly?

The other question was why does Manderly need a smuggler to bring Manderly's liege lord to him?

Oh, there was another question I asked --- are Rickon, his direwolf and Osha prisoners on Skaggos?

This thread is on page three because of  an "oops" remark made by martin during an interview with Tyson where martin faced with factual information does his tehehe about his fictional story and unicorns.

Straight up no bs pup remark --- Rickon is not on Skaggos --- Wex is not illerate.  Manderly has lied to Davos.   Can't prove it.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup
frekking english language and stubby fingers --- antidote and anecdote --- bifocals

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The concept of a unicorn being a horse with a horn already exists in-universe. The Brax sigil is a unicorn:

His shield bore a unicorn sigil, and a spiral horn two feet long jutted up from the brow of his horsehead helm. Tyrion reined up to greet him. "Ser Flement."

Plus, as White Ravens quoted earlier, Jon recognises a helmet as made from a unicorn's head. Jon hasn't seen a unicorn any more than Ghost has. If Jon can tell a unicorn by sight, Ghost should be able to. I think the enormous goat was just an enormous goat, and I don't think the quote indicates that the goat had only one horn, just that only one of its horns raked Shaggydog.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I don't resist the idea Wex was hiding up a tree and overhearing Osha and Luwin's conversation.

Osha is an experienced spearwife, a fighter, not a lay down spread the legs girl.

Rickon's direwolf has an increased canine sense of smell. As an anecdote my dog drew my attention to the pantry to find a rotten potato before the disgusting smell even reached the level I could sniff it out.

From my pov --- Shaggy and Osha would know if Wex was following them.

Soooooo, for conversational sake let's go further down the endless rabbit hole.

When Theon first mentions Wex martin uses the word dumb instead of mute. That "dumb" is an old school reference to mute. I don't know the proper politically correct  21st century word for individuals who canna speak other than mute.

A Clash of Kings - Theon II     "Time to go," Theon announced. When the boy paid him no mind, he seized him by the ear and pulled him from the game. Wex grabbed up a fistful of coppers and came along without a word. That was one of the things Theon liked best about him. Most squires have loose tongues, but Wex had been born dumb . . . which didn't seem to keep him from being clever as any twelve-year-old had a right to be. He was a baseborn son of one of Lord Botley's half brothers. Taking him as squire had been part of the price Theon had paid for his horse./

Dumb, would describe Theon in his heyday before Ramsey turned Theon into Reek.

I digress.

Repeat --- from my pov --- Shaggy and Osha would know if Wex was following them. Osha and Shaggy would have clamped down on Wex in a heart beat.

Let me move on to  Manderly, Glover, and Davos in DwD.

Theon and Wex had disappeared from martin's story in book two. Theon (Reek) and Wex show up again in book five, DwD.

By the old and the new gods I am hoping I got that correct.

During DwD Martin via Davos gives a bit of a gossipy recap of what has been transpiring in Westeros.

A Dance with Dragons - Davos II     Most of what he heard he'd learned in Sisterton, from Lord Godric or the denizens of the Belly of the Whale. Tywin Lannister was dead, butchered by his dwarf son; his corpse had stunk so badly that no one had been able to enter the Great Sept of Baelor for days afterward; the Lady of the Eyrie had been murdered by a singer; Littlefinger ruled the Vale now, but Bronze Yohn Royce had sworn to bring him down; Balon Greyjoy had died as well, and his brothers were fighting for the Seastone Chair; Sandor Clegane had turned outlaw and was plundering and killing in the lands along the Trident; Myr and Lys and Tyrosh were embroiled in another war; a slave revolt was raging in the east.      Other tidings were of greater interest. Robett Glover was in the city and had been trying to raise men, with little success. Lord Manderly had turned a deaf ear to his pleas. White Harbor was weary of war, he was reported to have said. That was bad. The Ryswells and the Dustins had surprised the ironmen on the Fever River and put their longships to the torch. That was worse. And now the Bastard of Bolton was riding south with Hother Umber to join them for an attack on Moat Cailin. "The Whoresbane his own self," claimed a riverman who'd just brought a load of hides and timber down the White Knife, "with three hundred spearmen and a hundred archers. Some Hornwood men have joined them, and Cerwyns too." That was worst of all./

Yeah, yeah, Wex. I can accept Wex is mute because via martin Wex never speaks.

What rankles me a bit is Glover leads Davos through the twists and turns to Manderly. Glover is not supposed to be there. Blah blah --- the post will get to verra long if I supply every quote.

A Dance with Dragons - Davos IV     The lad who followed Robett Glover through the door was not a Stark, nor could he ever hope to pass for one. He was older than the Young Wolf's murdered brothers, fourteen or fifteen by the look of him, and his eyes were older still. Beneath a tangle of dark brown hair his face was almost feral, with a wide mouth, sharp nose, and pointed chin. "Who are you?" Davos asked.    The boy looked to Robett Glover.   n"He is a mute, but we have been teaching him his letters. He learns quickly." Glover drew a dagger from his belt and gave it to the boy. "Write your name for Lord Seaworth."/

There have been two questions I have been asking --- one is how did Wex come to be in the possession of Manderly?

The other question was why does Manderly need a smuggler to bring Manderly's liege lord to him?

Oh, there was another question I asked --- are Rickon, his direwolf and Osha prisoners on Skaggos?

This thread is on page three because of  an "oops" remark made by martin during an interview with Tyson where martin faced with factual information does his tehehe about his fictional story and unicorns.

Straight up no bs pup remark --- Rickon is not on Skaggos --- Wex is not illerate.  Manderly has lied to Davos.   Can't prove it.  

 

 

 

 

I agree that Osha and Shaggydog would probably realize that Wex was tracking them. Perhaps some interaction between them will be revealed in Winds?

I don’t understand why Glover shouldn’t be there.  It says in the text that he is in the city (of White Harbour) trying to scare up troops from Manderly.   They have apparently formed a secret alliance away from the prying eyes of unwelcome visitors (Freys etc). 

I’m not sure if Davos’ status as a smuggler is as important as his well known ability to steer a ship through difficult and challenging waters.  

I also agree that Rickon, Osha and Shaggy might be prisoners on Skagos. 

Edited by White Ravens

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Skagosi take down the Dreadford with Unigoats; while Stannis brings down Winterfell.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

The concept of a unicorn being a horse with a horn already exists in-universe. The Brax sigil is a unicorn:

His shield bore a unicorn sigil, and a spiral horn two feet long jutted up from the brow of his horsehead helm. Tyrion reined up to greet him. "Ser Flement."

Plus, as White Ravens quoted earlier, Jon recognises a helmet as made from a unicorn's head. Jon hasn't seen a unicorn any more than Ghost has. If Jon can tell a unicorn by sight, Ghost should be able to. I think the enormous goat was just an enormous goat, and I don't think the quote indicates that the goat had only one horn, just that only one of its horns raked Shaggydog.

Yes, I agree, someone displays a sigil of a horse which depicts a spiral horn two feet long that juts from the brow of a horse head helm.

I agree that @White Ravens supplied an excellent quote. A quote that I myself was unaware of.  Not unusual for me since I am discussing a series of books that covers approximately 5000 pages.  That is what makes conversation interesting about these books.  Conversation brings about sharing of information and discussion. The quote was:   And there were queerer things: a toy mammoth made of actual mammoth hair, an ivory phallus, a helm made from a unicorn's head, complete with horn.

What I have been unsuccessfully trying to communicate is --- the dream, I'll call it a warg dream, where someone/something envisions his brothers and sisters does not mean Rickon, Shaggy & Osha are on Skaggos.

That dream sequence use to be used in discussions to debate whether or not Greywolf actually died at the slaughter during the Red Wedding.  If one tries to evaluate it, it turns into mumbo jumbo much as the dastardly pink/bastard letter does.

 

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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