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The way the books have headed since ASOS and the way the show has become since S05 are almost polar opposites. The best version of this overall story lies somewhere in the middle. Hopefully GRRM can return to that more focused middle-ground in his next book. However, if that never happens I feel like at least we now have some closure in relation to certain elements of the story, albeit in rather broad strokes. 

At any rate, I think even a return to the middle ground would show how unfeasible translating many of the plot-lines/characters from the page to the screen were. 

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22 hours ago, btfu806 said:

We keep saying the plot points will be the same. There is no way that Cersei and Jamie's arcs end with them holding onto each other getting crushed by a building. To me, that scene shows that when given the chance, D&D will interject their own ending. I highly doubt most of the endings are going to be the same as GRRM's, such as Euron's. But that is also my own opinion and we won't know till we have the books.

As much as I wanted/needed Jamie to be the valonqar, and kill her by strangulation....(which I'm attempting to get over), him leading her to the location of their demise, and she dying due to her own stupidity & in the basic same fashion of a giant stone building collapsing on them just like the Sept of Baelor.... does seem fitting.

Having it be Tyrion's plan & Jamie executing it, they both turn out to be the valonqar.

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18 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

You know what the real problem is?

I think we will never know. The books are not going to be finished at this rate. Not with 1 book published in the last 14 years.

Some of the plot points are different, some will be the same. I believe its pretty obvious that Show Jaime and Book Jaime are entirely different characters. On the other hand, Mad Dany seems like the ending we are getting for both versions. 

 

Dance was published in 2011. 8 years ago.

Book Jamie & Show Jamie are pretty much the same in the books I read & show I've been watching, just far more fleshed out and human due to NCW's brilliance.

Everyone seems to forget that GRRM's books are all told from character POVs, which is impossible to film from that perspective. 

Of course Dany's descent into madness will likely be seen largely from her POV, Tyrion's, & Jon's, and will make more sense from those brain perspectives, which I personally think they've done an amazing job attempting to get as close to as possible.

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7 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I see David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have lots of fake accounts on here.

For the ones who aren't fake, I just have to ask: how much are they paying you to say that this is mediocre writing?

Yeah, because doing a Star Wars trilogy leaves lots of free time to troll forums where 80% of the posters hate you, amirite?   

 

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4 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Yeah, because doing a Star Wars trilogy leaves lots of free time to troll forums where 80% of the posters hate you, amirite?   

You are right.

They had a joint account on this very forum.

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I fully believe that the Mad Queen turn is directly from Martin, but the turn isn't the issue, its how unjustified the turn is given the story that is the problem.

I also am quite sure that sometime around when Season 6 was being written, HBO decided that only 8 seasons would be made, and that the writers had expected 9 or 10. That made their job much harder, but even so, it was they who shortened the seasons to 6 and 5 episodes. The 3 episodes they gave up could have been used to develop to this point.  If Episode 3 had been 20 minutes less battle, the aftermath could have been handled I that episode and allowed for a bit more development to this point.

In the end, this is exactly why I don't mind getting spoilers.  I don't watch just to find out what happens, but how it happens.   Martin decided most of the large things that happened.  D & D wrote how to get there, and made some real mistakes. 

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57 minutes ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Thank you. 

When you have only an outline as source material that's likely as much, if not more of a mess than the last two books, (as much as I loved them, they were hard to get through and nothing compared to the first three, with more red herrings than actual plot....), then rushing, brilliant character moments, and spectacular cinematography might be your best option.

I disagree I quite enjoy the last two, probably more than the previous ones. But that’s because I find the last two very re-readable. However, I get it if you don’t like em, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

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23 hours ago, Nakraal said:

There was/is so much anticipation and hype and theories... So many years since the last book and we all had to use our heads to fill in whats missing. Most of the fans have each their own theory of this or that, and how this ends. And when it comes its almost certain it isn't how each one of us envisioned it. And we hate it for that, because many of us believe that anything that doesn't match our own ideal ending is condemned to be awful. And we shouldn't. Not our story to tell. 

Also: How many book readers raved when they read the Red Wedding? How many of them cried out "is this fockin Robb's arc? Really? This is his arc?"

But after it sank in they worshipped GRRM for it?

I think it will be the same thing with this.

I for one am very satisfied with the story. There are parts I hate, like plot armor or the constant feeling that certain things needed more episodes to be developed in. But the story, the story is fitting and great.

I am a classic fantasy fan, so I never worshipped GRRM for it. Actually, I stopped reading the books after Ned's beheading, and I missed the Red Wedding when he wrote it. 

When  the show came out, I started watching and only by the end of episode 1 I was like "This story looks familiar"... I continued watching the show because I was curious, and ten years had passed since that first reading of "A game of Thrones". Obviously, time and life change people, I wasn't entirely the same person I was then; and now  I thought I could bear Ned's beheading if the story would go to a satisfactory end. 

After the first season, I decided to continue reading the books. I found the last two of a great lesser quality than the first three (literary wise).  Anyway, I fell in love with some characters, and wanted to see where their stories go. While the show started its downhill path after season 4, I still wanted to know were the stories of the characters I used to care go, and above all,  the main thing that kept me going was that I was promised a "bittersweet" ending, Lord of the Rings style. So I thought that at least,  all that suffering will be worth it. But no, all that suffering was pointless, only followed by more suffering.

Now I feel completely cheated. The story was all along nothing more than a monumental nihilistic pointless junk. Yes, the show made it worse, full of plot holes, character inconsistency, horrid resources typical of cheap writers, But even if the books make it beliavable, I won't like or enjoy it. 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, LucyMormont said:

I am a classic fantasy fan, so I never worshipped GRRM for it. Actually, I stopped reading the books after Ned's beheading, and I missed the Red Wedding when he wrote it. 

When  the show came out, I started watching and only by the end of episode 1 I was like "This story looks familiar"... I continued watching the show because I was curious, and ten years had passed since that first reading of "A game of Thrones". Obviously, time and life change people, I wasn't entirely the same person I was then; and now  I thought I could bear Ned's beheading if the story would go to a satisfactory end. 

After the first season, I decided to continue reading the books. I found the last two of a great lesser quality than the first three (literary wise).  Anyway, I fell in love with some characters, and wanted to see where their stories go. While the show started its downhill path after season 4, I still wanted to know were the stories of the characters I used to care about go, and above all,  the main thing that kept me going was that I was promised a "bittersweet" ending, Lord of the Rings style. So I thought that at least,  all that suffering will be worth it. But no, all that suffering was pointless, only followed by more suffering.

Now I feel completely cheated. The story was all along nothing more than a monumental nihilistic pointless junk. Yes, the show made it worse, full of plot holes, character inconsistency, horrid resources typical of cheap writers, But even if the books make it beliavable, I won't like or enjoy it. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ShadowKitteh said:

As much as I wanted/needed Jamie to be the valonqar, and kill her by strangulation....(which I'm attempting to get over), him leading her to the location of their demise, and she dying due to her own stupidity & in the basic same fashion of a giant stone building collapsing on them just like the Sept of Baelor.... does seem fitting.

Having it be Tyrion's plan & Jamie executing it, they both turn out to be the valonqar.

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. "

It isn't just the little brother killing, it's how. Plus the show never referenced the valonqar so they didn't have to fulfill that prophecy.

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I see David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have lots of fake accounts on here.

For the ones who aren't fake, I just have to ask: how much are they paying you to say that this is mediocre writing?

I gotta figure out how to get some of that HBO money. But it would be hard to lie and say the writing is OK. haha

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8 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

I gotta figure out how to get some of that HBO money. But it would be hard to lie and say the writing is OK. haha

I know right.

How did these people get on payroll? Are D&D sending direct messages to certain members who strike their fancy?

FYI: their account on here still seems to be active

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2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I know right.

How did these people get on payroll? Are D&D sending direct messages to certain members who strike their fancy?

FYI: their account on here still seems to be active

Ha probably. Someone comes up with a good theory that makes their crap writing almost sound logical.

And that's interesting....have to see if they posted at all

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Ha probably. Someone comes up with a good theory that makes their crap writing almost sound logical.

And that's interesting....have to see if they posted at all

Probably not. What appears to be their very first joint post announces who they are and their excitement for landing the deal.

My, my, my...footprints in the sands of time. How foolish were they, how foolish was I?

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

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19 hours ago, House Balstroko said:

It's a given that with a production of such epic scope, some people will be disappointed. Long time fans have their views on how things will ply down the line.

I do wonder how the books will end up differing form the show. I mentioned elsewhere that I believe the books are playing the long game. The end points may very well be the same or similar, they are just taking a longer route, with more characters being involved.  

This. This story isnt ending the way i wanted it to, but it doesnt matter. It was still a great ride, despite all the bumps in the road. There will always be things in the show ill be salty about, but i had a great time. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

"And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. "

It isn't just the little brother killing, it's how. Plus the show never referenced the valonqar so they didn't have to fulfill that prophecy.

Exactly. Like I said, I'm trying to get over my disappointment.

Edited by ShadowKitteh

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4 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

Dance was published in 2011. 8 years ago.

Book Jamie & Show Jamie are pretty much the same in the books I read & show I've been watching, just far more fleshed out and human due to NCW's brilliance.

Everyone seems to forget that GRRM's books are all told from character POVs, which is impossible to film from that perspective. 

Of course Dany's descent into madness will likely be seen largely from her POV, Tyrion's, & Jon's, and will make more sense from those brain perspectives, which I personally think they've done an amazing job attempting to get as close to as possible.

Yes, between 2006 and 2019 we've got only ADWD, My mistake, it's wasn't 14 years, just 13 :rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

This. This story isnt ending the way i wanted it to, but it doesnt matter. It was still a great ride, despite all the bumps in the road. There will always be things in the show ill be salty about, but i had a great time. 

I may very well still rage after the finale. :D

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3 hours ago, Ingelheim said:

Yes, between 2006 and 2019 we've got only ADWD, My mistake, it's wasn't 14 years, just 13 :rolleyes:

OH! Got it. :blush: Apologies. I misunderstood. (I'm so blonde today I probably glow in the dark.)

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