Why did Sansa dislike being Northern?

[Hugorfonics]

24 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Also, calling her horseface isn't nice but have we not all called our siblings things like this?

Im a younger sibling, so not the best expert. But yea im my child years my brothers sometimes ragged on me, I didnt think much of it, however if his friends made fun of me Id get upset and expect him to stand up for me

24 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Arya picks at Sansa just as much no?

No

24 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I dearly love both characters but they are just little girls, being little girls. 

Me too.

What Im worried about now is theyre not little girls. Theyre now adolescents whose past 3-4 years has been hell. Both girls trace their anger back to Ladys death. I fear that their anger and resentment will boil over eventually and they'll forget they were ever friends, if they ever were.

If shit was normal, they'd have been apologized and itd be water under the bridge, however that didnt happen and it probably festered into something magical 

[Nagini's Neville]

19 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

And yet it’s mentioned that Sansa and Jeyne insult Arya by calling her “Arya Horseface”.

I'm sure Sansa has called her sister "Arya Horseface" before, the same way Arya has called Sansa and her interests stupid.

But first of all have you never insulted your sibling at least a couple of times, when you were under the age of eleven? Called them some mean, insulting names?

And secondly I think the main problem was not, that Sansa might have called Arya that name a couple of times, but that other people did it as well and that the adults didn't have Arya's back. That Arya basically was always "wrong" always not "enough" and "not right", constantly lacking, while Sansa was praised about everything.

Instead of Speta Mordane (with Cat's support) disciplining Sansa and Jeyne and the other kids for picking on Arya, especially concerning something Arya has no control over like her looks (I'm sure Arya's face is just fine btw) she reenforced said behavior through talk like this:

“Sansa’s work is as pretty as she is,” Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. “She has such fine, delicate hands.” When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. “Arya has the hands of a blacksmith.”

A Game of Thrones, Arya 1

I also don't think Sansa relentlessly bullied Arya, because I really can't imagine, that it's possible to truly, severely bully Arya long-term, because we see how she reacts, when she is attacked in AGT, she usually fights back right away with double the aggression (that's not criticism or a bad thing) Arya doesn't just stand there and take it. @Hugorfonics and I believe, that also could be a reason, that Sansa might not have stood up for Arya more (if that truly went down like that every time. We really don't have a lot and any objective info on how their childhood was really like) Sansa doesn't understand and can't deal with Arya's fierceness and aggression. If Arya would have just started to cry, Sansa for sure would have felt bad and protected her. She known how to deal with this behavior. But that's not Arya and as a consequence I believe Sansa was never really aware of how effected Arya truly was and how tough things were for her. 

But then Arya also had her own friends and her strong bond with Jon, it wasn't like she was all alone against Sansa and her friends.

 It also wouldn't have been very Lady-like to constantly call Arya insulting names and therefore I don't think it happened often coming from Sansa. She also never does it in GOT, if it was such a common thing, we would have heard it at least once, since they have quite a few fights.

[Elegant Woes]

@Angel Eyes We all know that Jeyne called Arya Horse face, but Sansa? It's kind of debatable. Taunting Arya would be out of character for Sansa. I am not saying this because I believe Sansa has more empathy and care for her sister's feelings than most children would have, we all know she doesn't that's evident throughout AGOT, but I simply don't think it would work with the image Sansa is trying to live up to. The thing about Sansa is that her behavior is a carefully constructed persona molded to the shape of a grand lady under the direction of Septa Mordane. 

Quote

A true lady would not notice his face, she told herself. - AGOT, Sansa II

Sansa fervently believes in how a true lady should act and she strives to uphold herself to that standard. Taunting your little sister is not the behavior of a true lady. Even when Sansa does break out of that "true lady" persona in the second half of AGOT she never calls Arya horseface. Not that that excuses her behavior, though, because she was quite nasty towards Arya. Sansa's actions towards Arya shows she is a flawed and messy child who doesn't fully understand the weight and impact of her words. That doesn't make her this Regina George type of character. 

[Nagini's Neville]

6 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Angel Eyes We all know that Jeyne called Arya Horse face, but Sansa? It's kind of debatable. Taunting Arya would be out of character for Sansa. I am not saying this because I believe Sansa has more empathy and care for her sister's feelings than most children would have, we all know she doesn't that's evident throughout AGOT, but I simply don't think it would work with the image Sansa is trying to live up to. The thing about Sansa is that her behavior is a carefully constructed persona molded to the shape of a grand lady under the direction of Septa Mordane. 

Sansa fervently believes in how a true lady should act and she strives to uphold herself to that standard. Taunting your little sister is not the behavior of a true lady. Even when Sansa does break out of that "true lady" persona in the second half of AGOT she never calls Arya horseface. Not that that excuses her behavior, though, because she was quite nasty towards Arya. Sansa's actions towards Arya shows she is a flawed and messy child who doesn't fully understand the weight of her words. That doesn't make her this Regina George type of character. 

"To her sister and sister’s friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface."

A Dance With Dragons 

Arya thinks this, one time in Dance. But of course that doesn't necessarily mean Sansa called her that or that she is/was truly "Arya Horseface" to Sansa. In our thoughts we often tend to exaggerate and think in absolutes (this person hates me). In Sansa's pov she doesn't think of Arya as "Arya Horseface", but also engages in absolute thinking, when it comes to Arya:  "Arya ruins everything"

Like with so many things IMO we can't 100% tell just from the text and GRRM probably wanted it to be that way.

[Hugorfonics]

24 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

We all know that Jeyne called Arya Horse face, but Sansa? It's kind of debatable.

Its not

Quote

"They tell me you are called Weasel. That will not serve. What name did your mother give you?"

She bit her lip, groping for another name. Lommy had called her Lumpyhead, Sansa used Horseface, and her father's men once dubbed her Arya Underfoot, but she did not think any of those were the sort of name he wanted.

"Nymeria," she said.

 

 

[Hugorfonics]

15 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Like with so many things IMO we can't 100% tell just from the text and GRRM probably wanted it to be that way.

Lol ok. Everything is debatable.

In regards to her sticking up for Arya, that never happened. Jon neither, he just consoled her after the fact usually.

Quote

Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse.

.

Poor girl. Jeyne of course. Like some kids are cruel, find the easy victim. But still, some part of me thinks its jealousy. Jeyne was an only child and probably felt an almost sisterly bond with Sansa. She probably lashed out at Arya because she wished she was Arya. 

 

Eta

"You are the real Arya, my lady. Arya of House Stark, Lord Eddard's daughter, heir to Winterfell." Her name, she had to know her name. "Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface."

"It was me made up that name. Her face was long and horsey. Mine isn't. I was pretty." Tears spilled from her eyes at last. "I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Does Lord Ramsay think I am pretty?"

[Nagini's Neville]

3 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol ok. Everything is debatable.

In regards to her sticking up for Arya, that never happened. Jon neither, he just consoled her after the fact usually.

.

Poor girl. Jeyne of course. Like some kids are cruel, find the easy victim. But still, some part of me thinks its jealousy. Jeyne was an only child and probably felt an almost sisterly bond with Sansa. She probably lashed out at Arya because she wished she was Arya. 

I don't think Arya was an easy victim, maybe when she was younger. But you don't know, what Arya did after she was insulted or what she yelled back. And just because Arya doesn't report on it, doesn't mean nobody ever stood up for her. Ppl tend to think back on those "traumatic" childhood memories in extremes.

Yeah, Jeyne had her own stuff to deal with in this classist society. Can't also be so easy to be friends with and grow up with a potential future queen, while you are always are going to stay a stewards daughter.

I'm not suggesting, that they might not have been very mean to Arya on occasion, but I just don't think it was anything out of the ordinary or with any truly malicious intend and I also don't think that Arya didn't reciprocate and maybe that's why it was sort of a circle.

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Im a younger sibling, so not the best expert. But yea im my child years my brothers sometimes ragged on me, I didnt think much of it, however if his friends made fun of me Id get upset and expect him to stand up for me

I'm the oldest. I have 2 younger sisters & a younger brother. I picked on them relentlessly, but yeah I would fight if anyone else picked on them, even one of my friends. 

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

No

You don't think? I think she probably did. We know she throws food at her at one point. I think that's just how it goes. Like I said, I picked on my siblings but they were no angels either. Because I was the oldest they might not call me names for fear of retribution (except my brother, he would call me a name & then run & lock himself in the bathroom lmao!) But they would do other things, aggravate me until I lashed out & then I got in trouble, or tattle on me etc. 

We don't have a lot of examples of either of them picking on the other but in a realistic situation I would say Arya gave as good as she got. 

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Me too.

What Im worried about now is theyre not little girls. Theyre now adolescents whose past 3-4 years has been hell. Both girls trace their anger back to Ladys death. I fear that their anger and resentment will boil over eventually and they'll forget they were ever friends, if they ever were.

If shit was normal, they'd have been apologized and itd be water under the bridge, however that didnt happen and it probably festered into something magical 

Yeah maybe. I think all the shit they have been through & all the abuse they have witnessed & suffered through will make them understand that neither were the culprit in the Lady incident. So much has happened now I don't think it will matter much to them what the other did in this situation. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

@Elegant Woes, @Nagini's Neville, @Hugorfonics

Sorry, didn't wanna quote each piece so I thought I'd tag you all. 

I think Sansa did call Arya "horseface" at least on one occasion. 

I agree with Hugor that Jeyne experienced some jealousy & that is likely why she picked at Arya. 

I agree with NN that Arya was not an easy target. Like you said, maybe when she was younger but at this point she can handle her own. It hurts her feelings of course but she hardly would have walked around getting bullied & not done anything about it. 

I think the thing we need to remember here is that they are sisters & they are young. This stuff happens in, I would say, pretty much every single sibling relationship there is. It isn't a trauma, it's getting called a name. We have all been called names as children & have probably all called names as children. If we have not we are the exception, not the rule. It's not out of the ordinary at all that Arya & Sansa don't see eye to eye on most things, they are almost polar opposites. Arya is rough & tough & likes to get dirty & Sansa is soft & gentle & likes to dress up nice. They are just children. It's sort of unreal to me the amount of stock that is put into Arya getting called horseface. Of course I feel bad for her, of course I wish they hadn't said it. More than that, I wish, as NN said, that the adults in Arya's life made her aware that it was ok not be conventionally beautiful & ok to not be good at needlework etc. That was a disservice to Sansa & Arya both. 

At the end of the day though, is this really so traumatic? Their parents did the best they knew how, where one lacked the other tried to pick up; Cat reaffirms that Sansa is 'more than' but Ned shows a special interest in Arya, recognizing she is special & allowing her to practice the things she actually wants to do. He has a long, hard, talk with Arya - that had he had with Sansa may have changed many things in the course of the future. My point is, they weren't bad parents, they did what they thought was right & sometimes it wasn't. It's easy to sit back & look at the aftermath of things & say this or that should have been done, not so easy in the moment. 

They are just kids, being kids. It's really not a big deal. I would think the things they have experienced since then would weigh much greater on their minds than who called who what or who hit who with food. 

[Elegant Woes]

@Lyanna<3Rhaegar I must admit I do have a knee-jerk reaction to the horseface debate. Not because I am married to the idea that Sansa never ever said it, at the very least she used that term rarely, it's just I don't like the condemnation Sansa gets because of it by fans. The situation shows that Sansa is a messy and flawed child who didn't fully understand the weight and impact of her words. She is not a bully nor the Regina George of Westeros. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

18 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Lyanna<3Rhaegar I must admit I do have a knee-jerk reaction to the horseface debate. Not because I am married to the idea that Sansa never ever said it, at the very least she used that term rarely, it's just I don't like the condemnation Sansa gets because of it by fans. The situation shows that Sansa is a messy and flawed child who didn't fully understand the weight and impact of her words. She is not a bully nor the Regina George of Westeros. 

I agree. Like I said, it really surprises me the amount of focus on this. A kid called her sister a name? So what? LOL Like I said, of course as parents we teach our children not to call names, it's not nice etc but if I got crucified for every name I called one of my siblings growing up I would look like the devil reincarnate. 

[Seams]

Some literary analysis fruit tarts for everyone to share:

- The "Arya Horseface" nickname is significant because it ties in to Arya's resemblance to Lyanna. Lady Dustin says that Brandon and Lyanna were like centaurs. Arya, Ned, Jon and Lyanna are supposed to share Stark features while the other Stark siblings look more like Catelyn.

- Sansa's direwolf, Lady, is also a symbolic Lyanna. (Look at the scene where Cersei says "the king [she] thought to marry" (probably meaning Rhaegar but ostensibly meaning Robert) would have laid Lady's pelt across Cersei's bed. Both Robert and Rhaegar wanted to sleep with Lyanna, not Cersei.  This is a symbolic skinchanging situation.

- Ned refuses to let Lady's bones and skin be disposed of anywhere but Winterfell. I think they are put to rest in the lichyard in Winterfell, which I interpret as a kind of midpoint between the mainstream, living world and true death (the crypt).

- Jeyne Poole symbolizes the sacred pool at the base of the heart tree in the Winterfell walled garden. If you want to know who believes in the Old Gods, look for the people connected to Jeyne. (Catelyn's POV begins with Ned dipping the family sword into the pool while Catelyn looks on, disliking the God's Wood the same way she dislikes Jon's mother. Ned is washing away the blood of the beheaded deserter, but the sword / pool symbolism is very sexual. Later, Ramsay Bolton "dips" his "sword" into Jeyne and causes bleeding.) Recall as well the "Lord of the Crossing" game that allows the Frey wards to control or use the pool to defeat their enemies. The "fight" for possession of Jeyne reflects also, of course, the more obvious battle for possession of Winterfell and control of the North.

- Beth Cassel and her family probably symbolize the castle, Winterfell. Beth is in a precarious situaton after Ramsay burns Winterfell. Lucky for her, he has done some rebuilding.

I suspect Sansa and Arya's roles in the sewing symbolism are like the two sisters of Aegon the Conqueror.

- Somehow Sansa is a builder and the most devout of the two sisters: she sews fine seams. In addition to the snow castle at the Eyrie, Sansa sees two cloud castles merging. I don't have a fully-developed theory yet, but I also suspect that Harry the Heir symbolizes the glass house at Winterfell. (Long story - try the search function and look for an old post of mine explaining how diamond-shaped panes of glass - like part of Harry's sigil - are connected to "bitter / sweet" symbolism.) Sansa's interest in seducing Harry is connected to the need to rebuild Winterfell, including the glass house where fruits such as lemons are grown.

- According to Septa Mordane, Arya's use of a needle is like a blacksmith. So she is also a "builder" or maker of things. Not quite sure yet how Arya is like  blacksmith, unless her relationship with Gendry addresses that. Of course, her sword was made by the Winterfell blacksmith and it is called Needle. I suspect that the sewing symbolism for Arya has to do with slaying - maybe the "eye" of the needle ties her sword to the eye / ice symbolism and Ned's lethal sword.

I know symbolism isn't everyone's cup of tea, so feel free to ignore these ideas. I do think the symbolism shows a deeper bond between Arya and Sansa than might be obvious to someone reading only the plot points. I also think they show Sansa's deep bond to the north and the equivalent search for the "red door" and the lemon tree that we see in Dany's arc.

[Hugorfonics]

7 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I don't think Arya was an easy victim, maybe when she was younger. But you don't know, what Arya did after she was insulted or what she yelled back. And just because Arya doesn't report on it, doesn't mean nobody ever stood up for her. Ppl tend to think back on those "traumatic" childhood memories in extremes.

Yeah, Jeyne had her own stuff to deal with in this classist society. Can't also be so easy to be friends with and grow up with a potential future queen, while you are always are going to stay a stewards daughter.

I'm not suggesting, that they might not have been very mean to Arya on occasion, but I just don't think it was anything out of the ordinary or with any truly malicious intend and I also don't think that Arya didn't reciprocate and maybe that's why it was sort of a circle.

 

I meant easy victim as in younger, and looking like a horse with blacksmith hands, but yea, I don't think Sansa or Jeyne being mean to Arya is that big of a deal. Not like, say, Gregor and his sister or Jaime and his sister lol.

But word, Arya doesnt take stuff lightly. Like she calls everything and everyone stupid, which we later learn gives Sansa second thoughts on her intelligence, as Joff and Cersei called her that as well

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I'm the oldest. I have 2 younger sisters & a younger brother. I picked on them relentlessly, but yeah I would fight if anyone else picked on them, even one of my friends. 

No doubt, which Sansa didnt do (I dont think thats a big deal either)

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

You don't think? I think she probably did. We know she throws food at her at one point. I think that's just how it goes. Like I said, I picked on my siblings but they were no angels either. Because I was the oldest they might not call me names for fear of retribution (except my brother, he would call me a name & then run & lock himself in the bathroom lmao!) But they would do other things, aggravate me until I lashed out & then I got in trouble, or tattle on me etc. 

Lol, damn tattle tales. I was obnoxious to my brother and cousin too, but never went to the folks about it. Somehow I was always against snitching lol. I remember once my brother gave me a bloody nose and then we had to make up a story how I got it, cuz I didnt want him to get in trouble lol.

Arya and Sansa too seem to keep their stories to themselves, well, for the most part

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

We don't have a lot of examples of either of them picking on the other but in a realistic situation I would say Arya gave as good as she got. 

Yea, I guess. Close enough

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

 Their parents did the best they knew how, where one lacked the other tried to pick up; Cat reaffirms that Sansa is 'more than' but Ned shows a special interest in Arya, recognizing she is special & allowing her to practice the things she actually wants to do. He has a long, hard, talk with Arya - that had he had with Sansa may have changed many things in the course of the future. My point is, they weren't bad parents, they did what they thought was right & sometimes it wasn't. It's easy to sit back & look at the aftermath of things & say this or that should have been done, not so easy in the moment. 

Hmmm... Without derailing the thread... Well fuck it, its already derailed lol (uh, to the OP I agree with @Lord Varys nobody likes the north lol. Its cold and boring up there) uh, Ned was a bad parent who continuously put his daughters in harm, like instead of taking them to the boat up north as planned he visits a brothel with Petyr and goes toe to toe with the kingslayer. Like, after day 7 he shoulda broken the engagement with Joff.

But, back to Poole. Its one thing for Ned to give that blank face of a Stark to Sansa, but how the fuck does Jeyne have the balls to neigh in front of the Lord and his pony like daughter! I mean, hes a simple one, but Cats not, who by most accounts was a good mom (stepmom? Lol, no), Id be tight if I witnessed that.

5 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

, at the very least she used that term rarely,

Lol

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah maybe. I think all the shit they have been through & all the abuse they have witnessed & suffered through will make them understand that neither were the culprit in the Lady incident. 

I really doubt it. As things stand now both vigorously blame each other for Lady.

6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

So much has happened now I don't think it will matter much to them what the other did in this situation. 

Like they could hang out and play never have I ever, Westeros style lol. Idk, I think it depends on the situation they find themselves in, if theyre in a bad mood, in a good mood, if they had their wheaties. I think it could turn ugly quick.

The was Sansa thinks of Arya though still troubles me, like, for all purposes she must think Arya dead and yet

Quote

"Willas has the best birds in the Seven Kingdoms," Margaery said when the two of them were briefly alone. "He flies an eagle sometimes. You will see, Sansa." She took her by the hand and gave it a squeeze. "Sister."

Sister. Sansa had once dreamt of having a sister like Margaery; beautiful and gentle, with all the world's graces at her command. Arya had been entirely unsatisfactory as sisters went. How can I let my sister marry Joffrey? she thought, and suddenly her eyes were full of tears.

Entirely unsatisfactory? Lol thats like what Tyrion says to his newly found comrade brothers in relation to the man who tricked him into violating his wife! Arya aint do that lol.

And what are you crying at Margery for? Shes not your sister, your sisters probably dead! Wheres your tear for her?

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

26 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

No doubt, which Sansa didnt do (I dont think thats a big deal either)

Yeah for sure. Some do, some don't I guess. 

29 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol, damn tattle tales. I was obnoxious to my brother and cousin too, but never went to the folks about it. Somehow I was always against snitching lol. I remember once my brother gave me a bloody nose and then we had to make up a story how I got it, cuz I didnt want him to get in trouble lol

Haha yeah. I never snitched. I got in trouble for shit my sister did because I wouldn't tell. My brother was the same. My sisters though, they would tell every time.

30 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Arya and Sansa too seem to keep their stories to themselves, well, for the most part

Yeah I think they do mostly. 

31 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

, Ned was a bad parent who continuously put his daughters in harm, like instead of taking them to the boat up north as planned he visits a brothel with Petyr and goes toe to toe with the kingslayer. Like, after day 7 he shoulda broken the engagement with Joff

I see what you are saying. I guess I have seen some pretty bad parenting & just don't equate this to that. I get where you are coming from though. 

33 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

really doubt it. As things stand now both vigorously blame each other for Lady

It's been a while since I've read it but when is the last time either of them thought about the Lady incident? I know they think of Lady sometimes but I don't remember them thinking about blaming each other. 

35 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But, back to Poole. Its one thing for Ned to give that blank face of a Stark to Sansa, but how the fuck does Jeyne have the balls to neigh in front of the Lord and his pony like daughter! I mean, hes a simple one, but Cats not, who by most accounts was a good mom (stepmom? Lol, no), Id be tight if I witnessed that

Oh me too. 

36 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Like they could hang out and play never have I ever, Westeros style lol. Idk, I think it depends on the situation they find themselves in, if theyre in a bad mood, in a good mood, if they had their wheaties. I think it could turn ugly quick

Yeah, I think it would be pretty realistic if initially they are just happy to see each other. After becoming acclimated again old shit would probably come up. 

37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

The was Sansa thinks of Arya though still troubles me, like, for all purposes she must think Arya dead and yet

Yeah, that is shitty. I really think GRRM just doesn't do a great job at writing & conveying a sister relationship. I think in reality all the siblings would think much more of each other then they do. 

38 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Entirely unsatisfactory? Lol thats like what Tyrion says to his newly found comrade brothers in relation to the man who tricked him into violating his wife! Arya aint do that lol.

Yeah, I agree it's crappy & tbh I had forgotten that. I'm still willing to cut her some slack because she is young though. 

It's a very odd thought for GRRM to write I think. I mean, he isn't trying to write Sansa as a heartless b*tch right? Idk. 

40 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

And what are you crying at Margery for? Shes not your sister, your sisters probably dead! Wheres your tear for her

Haha! For sure!! 

[Princess Daenerys]

On 3/10/2020 at 3:36 PM, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

Why did Sansa dislike being Northern?
 

Sansa didn't like living in the north but she didn't have a problem being northern.

[Elegant Woes]

@Hugorfonics It's interesting you mention the "entirely unsatisfactory" comment. You are allowed to think Sansa is awful for having such thoughts when she thinks Arya is dead, but do you hold Arya to the same standards? 

Spoiler

Arya thinks Sansa is an airhead as she's enacting her rape in a play in the TWOW chapter sample. Is that the proper thoughts a girl should have about her older sister who suffered from, as far as she knows, sexual violence? If you are outraged by Sansa's comment then please be consistent and condemn Arya too.

Personally I am not that bothered by it. I was initially taken aback by Arya's thoughts when I read her TWOW chapter for the first time but I put myself over it eventually. All this scene shows to me is that Arya is a flawed person. Her issues with Sansa will not magically go away even when she thinks her sister is dead. See, it's not hard to be consistent on both the Stark sisters. How about you do it too. 

 

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah for sure. Some do, some don't I guess. 

I guess we gotta remember too that unlike you or my brother, Sansas not the eldest. Sticking up for the little guy is kinda Robb Stark territory

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Haha yeah. I never snitched. I got in trouble for shit my sister did because I wouldn't tell.

Lol, nice

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

My sisters though, they would tell every time.

Lmao

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah I think they do mostly. 

Yeah, mostly... Its not that I wanna blame Sansa for almost everything in westeros, its just the way I see it. 

Plus it gets boring blaming sad Ned

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I see what you are saying. I guess I have seen some pretty bad parenting & just don't equate this to that. I get where you are coming from though. 

Yea, theres worse

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

It's been a while since I've read it but when is the last time either of them thought about the Lady incident? I know they think of Lady sometimes but I don't remember them thinking about blaming each other. 

I thought there was something in affc, but maybe not. This is in acok, fairly early

Quote

"Only one cup of wine, to help my courage. If they catch me now, they'll strip the skin off my back."

And what will they do to me? Sansa found herself thinking of Lady again. She could smell out falsehood, she could, but she was dead, Father had killed her, on account of Arya. 

 

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah, I think it would be pretty realistic if initially they are just happy to see each other. After becoming acclimated again old shit would probably come up. 

I doubt their meeting will be realistic. Some fantasy shit probably lol. I think itll involve Jeyne Poole too, being all Arya Stark like. Who knows really

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah, that is shitty. I really think GRRM just doesn't do a great job at writing & conveying a sister relationship. I think in reality all the siblings would think much more of each other then they do. 

I mean, they got their own problems, and if you ask me Arya and Jon think of each other a little too much lol (not really)

So, forgetting Arya when Sansa spoke to Cersei or wrote to Catelyn isnt, great. It probably just became her way of thinking.

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

 

Yeah, I agree it's crappy & tbh I had forgotten that. I'm still willing to cut her some slack because she is young though. 

It's a very odd thought for GRRM to write I think. I mean, he isn't trying to write Sansa as a heartless b*tch right? Idk. 

 no?

eta

She can be cute

Quote

"I saw your sister this afternoon," Jeyne blurted out, as if she'd been reading Sansa's thoughts. "She was walking through the stables on her hands. Why would she do a thing like that?"

"I'm sure I don't know why Arya does anything."

She can be striking

Quote

"Curses are only in songs and stories."

That seemed to amuse him. "Has someone made a song about Gregor Clegane dying of a poisoned spear thrust? Or about the sellsword before him, whose limbs Ser Gregor removed a joint at a time? That one took the castle from Ser Amory Lorch, who received it from Lord Tywin. A bear killed one, your dwarf the other. Lady Whent's died as well, I hear. Lothstons, Strongs, Harroways, Strongs . . . Harrenhal has withered every hand to touch it."

"Then give it to Lord Frey."

And she shows promise

Quote

"Please," she finished, "you have to let me marry Joffrey, I'll be ever so good a wife to him, you'll see. I'll be a queen just like you, I promise."

If shes not Regina George, shes Lindsay Lohan

[Hugorfonics]

13 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Hugorfonics It's interesting you mention the "entirely unsatisfactory" comment. You are allowed to think Sansa is awful for having such thoughts when she thinks Arya is dead, but do you hold Arya to the same standards? 

  Hide contents

Arya thinks Sansa is an airhead as she's enacting her rape in a play in the TWOW chapter sample. Is that the proper thoughts a girl should have about her older sister who suffered from, as far as she knows, sexual violence? If you are outraged by Sansa's comment then please be consistent and condemn Arya too.

Personally I am not that bothered by it. I was initially taken aback by Arya's thoughts when I read her TWOW chapter for the first time but I put myself over it eventually. All this scene shows to me is that Arya is a flawed person. Her issues with Sansa will not magically go away even when she thinks her sister is dead. See, it's not hard to be consistent on both the Stark sisters. How about you do it too. 

 

Stork right? How could she not have made the connection.

I gotta reread that. 

Yo, if Sansas a bitch idk what the fuck Arya is. If that's truly the case thats pretty horrendous, if not shes still a fucking serial killer like the ones she demands mercy from. Fucking twisted. I love all of it lol

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

14 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

guess we gotta remember too that unlike you or my brother, Sansas not the eldest. Sticking up for the little guy is kinda Robb Stark territory

Yeah, I agree. My siblings aren't near as protective as I am. 

16 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yeah, mostly... Its not that I wanna blame Sansa for almost everything in westeros, its just the way I see it. 

Plus it gets boring blaming sad Ned

Haha yeah, I get it. She can be a little snot. I just don't get too worked about it because of her age.

17 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea, theres worse

Oh yeah.

17 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

doubt their meeting will be realistic. Some fantasy shit probably lol. I think itll involve Jeyne Poole too, being all Arya Stark like. Who knows really

For sure. I so desperately want them to reconnect & have a healthy relationship. I so desperately wanted Ned to not be dead too though - sadly my wants don't seem to be high on GRRM's priority list. 

19 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

mean, they got their own problems, and if you ask me Arya and Jon think of each other a little too much lol (not really)

 maybe some of the original outline made it through? 

21 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

So, forgetting Arya when Sansa spoke to Cersei or wrote to Catelyn isnt, great. It probably just became her way of thinking.

Yeah maybe. 

21 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

no

Haha! No! Lol

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

17 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Spoiler

 

Stork right? How could she not have made the connection.

I gotta reread that. 

Yo, if Sansas a bitch idk what the fuck Arya is. If that's truly the case thats pretty horrendous, if not shes still a fucking serial killer like the ones she demands mercy from. Fucking twisted. I love all of it lol

 



Ahh me too! Lol