SeanF Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Um no, I dont want her to actively be a murderer. I'd rather she abandon him in the middle of the Dornish marches or RUN AWAY. But even if she was going to kill him, he's not actually her father which is the difference. How you treat your kin is a higher bar for cruelty. She's not cruel enough to actually kill a Lannister. To be fair to Tyrion, as far as he knew, his father was planning to execute him for a crime he had never committed, and Cersei had tried to have him killed in the Battle of Blackwater. There's an interesting values dissonance at work here. Westeros will condemn him for the murder of his father, while not treating the murder of Shae very seriously. Whereas, I think it would be the reverse for most readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 18 minutes ago, SeanF said: Cersei had tried to have him killed in the Battle of Blackwater. Joffrey is a strong contender though...I think Cersei would have let that slip to confirm, once we got her POV. It hasn't 18 minutes ago, SeanF said: To be fair to Tyrion, as far as he knew, his father was planning to execute him for a crime he had never committed We dont know what the outcome of the trial would have been, before Tyrion turned it into a trial to the death because of his big mouth. My hunch is Tyrion made it 100x worse because he is a fuck up like that. Tywin could have planned to exile him. I think he just planned to strip him of titles. And even if he was innocent, he trapped himself by making himself look guilty. But it doesn't matter. Tyrion was free at that point that he decided to kill his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyn Oakenfist Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: But it doesn't matter. Tyrion was free at that point that he decided to kill his father. Let's be clear Tyrion didn't kill Tywin because of the trial. That is a show thing. Tyrion killed Tywin because of Tysha. Fell free to explain how that wasn't sadistic, awful, horrible, demeaning and abusive towards Tyrion, and why Tywin didn't deserve to die for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: meant that within the family, no matter how appalling they are to each other, Cersei or Tywin dont attempt to outright kill Tyrion in cold blood until he breaks that sacred social norm. I suppose it depends on what you mean by 'out right' and in 'cold blood' Cersei & Tywin certainly take more care to ensure they don't get caught. I think though, to secretly plot the murder of your family member for no apparent reason, is quite a bit more sadistic than to lose your shit over the abuse you have suffered & kill your abuser though. If Cersei did, indeed, hire Mandon to kill Tyrion though (something I find highly likely, but concede isn't proven) she makes an attempt on Tyrion's life prior to him making any attempt on any other Lannister's life. Also, Jaime tells Tyrion he is set to be executed on the morrow, which means Tywin, in a manner, has also made an attempt on Tyrion's life prior to Tyrion killing him. 6 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Cersei had a moral line drawn, and, for many years, it was that you dont kill your family members. I've never gathered this from Cersei nor do I recall her ever stating such. What makes you think this? She seems willing enough to kill Tyrion before & after he killed his father. 6 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Tyrion is like "haha fuck it Imma kill my family. I've been dreaming about them burning alive for YEARS anyway!" Now he's in the same camp as Euron and Stannis and goes on a rape spree after murdering his lover (a line Cersei also doesnt cross?). Yeah I think it was more like my father, who has never loved me, never cared for me, had my wife gang raped & bid me participate. Now I'm being told that this woman actually loved me & wasn't a paid whore. That's a lot for a mind to process & he snaps. I don't get the "haha fuck it Imma kill my family. I've been dreaming about them burning alive for YEARS anyway!" vibe from him at all. Cersei also murdered her husband (prior to Tyrion doing so). I don't know if I'd call it a "rape spree" - there were two right? Anyway, Cersei, as of yet, has only sexually abused Taena so Tyrion has one up on her there I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: We dont know what the outcome of the trial would have been, before Tyrion turned it into a trial to the death because of his big mouth. But Tyrion turns it into a trial by combat because it is clear he isn't going to get a fair shake otherwise. The trial was a farce & he was going to be found guilty. At least with the trial by combat he has a chance. 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: My hunch is Tyrion made it 100x worse because he is a fuck up like that. Doubt that, I don't know how much worse it could've gotten. 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Tywin could have planned to exile him. I think he just planned to strip him of titles IIRC Tywin tells Tyrion he will be allowed to take the black? Not positive. But to think he would stand convicted of killing the king & his own nephew & only get stripped of his titles is ridiculous IMO. 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: And even if he was innocent, He was... we know he was. 7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: he trapped himself by making himself look guilty. How so? He didn't make himself look guilty, everyone else made him look guilty. They took the stand & either outright lied about him or twisted the truth to make it appear to fit the crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagini's Neville Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: How is Tyrion more cruel in his punishments than Cersei? She tries to have him killed, you recall that right? I'd say that's worse than wishing death on someone. Also, when has Tyrion ever done anything as sadistic as giving people to Qyburn? I'd say of the two of them, Cersei is quite a bit more sadistic than Tyrion, even aDwD Tyrion. Yeah, Tyrion might have done some cruel shit, especially in Dance, but the big difference between him and Cersei is that she just doesn't care about people- at all (if they aren't her children or Jaime or at times Tywin) Cersei in the end is not truly capable of empathy much like Tywin, while Tyrion obviously is. You never really ask yourself for too long, why Cersei gives innocent ppl to Qyburn, while when Tyrion does something bad - you analyze it ( and are upset about it in my case - I'm not shocked if cersei does something horrible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagini's Neville Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: How so? He didn't make himself look guilty, everyone else made him look guilty. They took the stand & either outright lied about him or twisted the truth to make it appear to fit the crime. True and Tyrion deserved non of that, but he did dug himself a hole by constantly openly antagonizing Joffrey- even when it wasn't truly necessary and Sandor actually warned him about it twice, but Tyrion was dismissive/insulting towards him. Of course, that doesn't make it okay what happened to Tyrion, but his family was out to get him and even though Tyrion kinda knew that he couldn't keep his mouth shut and was still very shocked, when it finally happened (understandably so) - really sad IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said: Yeah, Tyrion might have done some cruel shit, especially in Dance, but the big difference between him and Cersei is that she just doesn't care about people- at all (if they aren't her children or Jaime or at times Tywin) Cersei in the end is not truly capable of empathy much like Tywin, while Tyrion obviously is. You never really ask yourself for too long, why Cersei gives innocent ppl to Qyburn, while when Tyrion does something bad - you analyze it ( and are upset about it in my case - I'm not shocked if cersei does something horrible) Indeed & it makes it feel worse in a way, because you expected better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 18 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said: Yeah but whatever Cersei dishes out, Tyrion can be 1000x more cruel in his punishments which was my point. If he wants his father to burn alive early on...then actually kills him in a horrific manner, I'm sure that he'd kill Cersei, probably raping her first, her since he cracks jokes about it so much. Can he?? Cersei actually acts on them. And he doesn't kill him in a horrific manner, he shots him with an arrow, that's a rather clean way to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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