Your darkest ASoIaF secrets

[Victarion Greyjoy]

When Sansa and Tyrion were wed I thought "Oh, I'm so happy for her. He'll treat her right."

After Ned's death, Sansa chapters went from being my least favorite to my all-time favorites regardless of anything else.

I hope Victarion becomes a dragon rider and his dragon eats Euron.

I didn't really find Oberyn or his brother that badass... maybe I just missed it when I was reading, but they didn't stick out to me.

[Bazzlebane]

I like Theon. I sympathize with him. I see why he makes the mistakes he does. I want him not necessarily redeemed but at least to still do something interesting.

[siyrean]

i can't forgive Jamie for killing Neds men but his tossing Bran was fine

[Khamul]

Let us see...

1) I didn't feel particular sorry for Bran after Jaime threw him out

2) After Ned had been imprisoned, I was a bit worried if he were going to die. Nope, I thought, this is fantasy, he can't die. I learned from that.

3) I was actually rooting for Cersie in AGOT - little did I know how incredible stupid she is. But I still like that she won't settle for being the pretty little wife. And I felt sorry for her when Robert hit her. If I were in her position, with an abusive husband, I'd probably have planned a little accident as well...

4) I am in general all for House Lannister - except Joffrey and, to a lesser degree, Cersie. I'd like her if she wasn't so incredibly dense. I can never get enough of Tyrion especially but also Jaime. They rule!

5) I respect Tywin and quite like his character, unless we're speaking family. I'd have liked to see him if Joanna had survived Tyrions birth. I think that would have changed a lot.

6) The Red Wedding did not leave me shocked. There were plenty of foreshadowing and I don't really like Robb or Catelyn (Die, b*tch!). I did feel sorry for Arya though.

7) I like Sansa. More than Arya anyway. In the start it was the other way round, but Sansa is much more interesting now.

8) I can never remember who all the lesser-known characters are.

9) I hate Sam! Hate him. It's okay to be a coward, but listening to him whining and pissing himself for four books now is a little much. Grow up!

[Kat]

My newest ASOIAF confession is that 90% the fans disturb me.

*goes back to hiding in another forum*

[Miryana Storm]

I'm simple: I hate the characters who've committed atrocities. I loathe Tywin for the abuse of Tysha and won't consider him a great man because of that (it wasn't just vile and unnecessary, it was counterproductive and the reason Tyrion eventually killed him). I hate Jaime for crippling a child and not feeling sorry for it. When I read a post praising Gregor and expressing regret that the great warrior with his interesting hijinks won't be around anymore, I gaped. I wish Euron would die, and soon. I know Westeros is a harsh place and these people aren't going to pay for what they did, but I'm still horrified. I don't find rape, torture or the murder of innocents cool even if they're committed by fictional characters who have witty lines and an air of badassery.

I just don't see the appeal of Sandor/Sansa. Yes, there are no perfect knights, yes, girls marry older men in this society, but he's a bloody killer who has little in common with her. What are they going to talk about? How is he going to help her get a safe household she can manage? He might have raped and killed her in ACOK. He's a savage. As much as people hate Sansa, she can do better. He should stay as a gravedigger and find some peace, and she should find a proper husband, not some bad boy x10 that she can redeem through her love. I guess I'm just too unromantic and realistic, since I've always rooted against the Phantom of the Opera too - he's a possessive, insane murderer who lives in the sewers, what kind of life would that be for his wife and children?

I understand why Cat said what she did after Bran was injured. She was a real mess because of her fear and suffering. It wasn't nice to Jon but it was a human reaction and a small thing compared to deeds other characters are actually praised for.

[siyrean]

eh, i don't think many people are trying to defend their love of Gregor, this threads for secret shames- trust me we know how wrong it is.

i too root against the phantom, mainly cause he was insane and unstable, Sandor on the other hand is not a sociopath, i have hope.

[The Marquis de Leech]

I'm simple: I hate the characters who've committed atrocities.

So I'm guessing you hate Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Robb? I'll give Catelyn a pass here, since her murder of Jinglebells took place when she was clearly insane.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Yes, there is just no black or white in SoIaF: everyone commits sins, and most of them are pretty bad.

Even Catelyn who was as pure as a nun released Jaime. And I dont know about you guys, but I REALLY couldnt agree with her, and if I was there I would´ve had slaped her.

[Multaniette]

Not even the one with Arianne and Arys?

Nope. That was boring.

[Yrael]

8) I can never remember who all the lesser-known characters are.

Eh, eh!! Same here. Certain threads here are Chinese for me; most times I don't know what the hell they're talking about!

Mult,

Aren't you reading the wrong genre, then?

[Multaniette]

Mult,

Aren't you reading the wrong genre, then?

I was under the impression I was reading epic fantasy, not erotic fantasy. :|

[redcandle17]

I was under the impression I was reading epic fantasy, not erotic fantasy. :|

You're not alone, Mult, the sex scenes don't do anything for me either. Though I appreciate the Arys/Arianne scene for how well she played him. I'm just not affected by most movie and book sex scenes.

I did think Sansa's dream about Sandor (which occupied all of two lines) was more erotic than every other sex scene combined. So maybe for me it's a matter of caring about the characters and caring about them being together.

[Lunera]

I certanly identify with the "I'm a woman but I still want power"-part. More than a "tiny" bit. However, I don't wanna do my brother or burn any towers...

Yeah, that's why I said, "a tiny bit".

I didn't think Maggy the Frog's prophecy about Cersei was a misstep. When I read it, I thought, "That explains a lot".

I thought the Iron Islands chapters were boring the first time around, but I liked them more on my second read.

I don't ship anybody.

The sex scenes don't do anything for me, but I don't object to their presence. I just skim over them.

I wasn't horrifically traumatized by "fat pink mast".

[PhoenixFlame]

I did think Sansa's dream about Sandor (which occupied all of two lines) was more erotic than every other sex scene combined. So maybe for me it's a matter of caring about the characters and caring about them being together.

That makes two of us! I went "Whooooa! Naughty Sansa!"

[Miryana Storm]

So I'm guessing you hate Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Robb? I'll give Catelyn a pass here, since her murder of Jinglebells took place when she was clearly insane.

As I definine atrocity, it includes malice, uncommon cruelty and lack of remorse. Would you truly group the characters you named with Tywin (the gangrape of Tysha, unleashing the Mountain on the Riverlands when he knew full well what Gregor would do, the various examples of his ruthlessness), Euron (rape and murder as a way of life), Jaime (crippling a child to cover up his latest treason, killing those who get in his way, feeling no guilt for the war caused by his selfishness) and Gregor (hideous rapes, tortures and deaths too numerous to mention)? It's a also a pattern for these people, not just a simple incident, and they've continued their behaviour for years unlike the POV children/teenagers. Everyone in ASOIAF has some sin or other, but I definitely do not place things like Cat freeing Jaime without the king's permission or Robb sleeping with Jeyne then trying to make amends with the Freys on a level with the bloodthirst and utter lack of consideration for others that's been displayed by the characters I named.

Robb hasn't raped anyone or conspired to murder an innocent as far as I know of. He executed Karstark himself even though it cost him allies because he did not approve of indiscriminate warfare that included personal revenge and the murder of children. I'm not too fond of Dany (though I'd defend her against some accusations that are OTT) but she's not yet a hardened conquerer and has shown mercy, something lacking when it comes to the likes of Tywin and his treatment of potential enemies/people who're in his way. Arya, sadly, might be too far gone to recover (a child thrust into a terrible situation, witness to the deeds of Gregor and Roose, no wonder she's becoming the rabid wolf that has to be taken down). I think Tyrion is terribly well written as a character, but he was able to take part in the gangrape so I can't like him and don't want him to have a happy ending.

And for something new: even though I've picked Storm as my name, I was pleased when Renly died. He reminds me of Jennifer Aniston's remark that Brad Pitt is missing a sensivity chip: pretty, dumb and vaguely robotic. Where is Renly's moral awareness? He doesn't even enjoy causing pain like Euron, he's not hellbent on acquiring power like Tywin, he just feels like being king. Any apparent reaction to the fact that he's setting a dangerous precedent by overthrowing his eldest brother's presumed children? Nope. Any qualms over the expected defeat and death of his elder brother? Nope. He just feels like doing things so he does them, without seeming to think or feel strongly about anything. What an empty moron.

I also root for characters who I know are 90% likely to meet bad ends. Such as Shireen: she'll get sacrificed to R'hllor sooner or later but I can't stop feeling foor the poor girl even though it'll end with me getting my heart stomped on again by GRRM.

[Sandello]

Redcandle17 I laughed at the horrific story Ayra overheard Chiswyck telling Gregor's other men. I feel bad about it, but still, Gregor asking for change is just too funny. Plus it made the Mountain a bit more human; he does have a sense of humor, just a very nasty one. The way Gregor corrected the sequence of events that Oberyn accused him of, while killing Oberyn, also amused me.

Yes, I laughed al lot. I have very nasty and grin sense of humor.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Renly is exacly like Robert was: an easy going guy who is competent enough, and that easily gather the love of everyone around him. I´m pretty sure he would become a good king.

BTW, I never realized Sansa had dreamed with Sandor. (time to read again).

[Greywolf2375]

"I'm not too fond of Dany (though I'd defend her against some accusations that are OTT) but she's not yet a hardened conquerer and has shown mercy, something lacking when it comes to the likes of Tywin and his treatment of potential enemies/people who're in his way. "

I'd consider her nailing 163 people to posts an atrocity - in some ways it was worse than the original because it was as revenge. Tywins treatment of enemies is spot on - the ones that will not bend, you break; the ones that will bend, help them bend, and then help them back on their feet and make them your ally if not your compatriot. His treatment of family on the other hand is more than a little shoddy.

If part of the definition includes lack of remorse, then Arya fits in as well - she is absolutely fascinated with killing and has killed without it being required of the situation - trying to avoid any spoilers since this is in General.

[Wisp]

And if/when that scene comes, I expect it to last ten pages - not three paragraphs. We got a deal on that, GRRM? If the kids don't like it they can skip the chapter and go read about Bran instead.

Ditto. GRRM has been working the Sansa/Sandor relationship into one of the main romances for the series since book one, and when they both finally realize and accept their feelings for one another, I expect the resulting sex scene to be long, detailed, and positively explosive. I feel that each has what the other one needs--opposites completing each other, so to speak. They're another, perhaps less obvious, ice and fire match.

I think they'll be reunited soon. It's no coincidence that they are so geographically close once again.... :cool: