Seasons and Westerosi warfare

[Aldarion]

OK, it is assumed that winter warfare in Westeros means moving through snow all the time. But is that necessarily so? As I recall, there are mentions of summer snows; but could there be winter thawings as well? Basically, something like false spring or false winter, but at timeframe long enough to make them into actual spring and actual winter. So long summer would actually be spring-summer-autumn-winter, while long winter would be winter-autumn-winter/autumn-winter.

This means that - theoretically - there might be some crops which could be grown during winter as well, and terrain would not be impassable either - or at least not all the time, at least south of the Neck. As a result, armies (which are professional and not conscripted peasants) should be able to operate during winter as well.

[Van Gogh]

It will not be absolute darkness but do not expect to be able to grow crops.  The temperature will vary, with the north getting the worst of the cold.  The southern parts may not freeze and some sunlight may come through but very little will grow in the deserts of Dorne.  So the ones who survive, which will be very few, will have to fish, hunt, or eat mushrooms until they too run out.  Then they will do as the crows and eat the dead.

The foolish among the nobles will march what's left of their men for a while.  Brutal men like Stannis will execute many more men for cannibalism until his own men turn on him and may even stuff him in a cooking pot.  The common peasants, which may up the most of the population, will rebel against their leaders.  We have already seen what happens when a leader has lost his marbles.  The people below them will rise up and cast them down.  The best example of this is Bowen Marsh having to get rid of an irrational leader in Jon Snow.  Professionalism, what little bit of it, will break down in the face of starvation and hardships. 

[Morte]

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

OK, it is assumed that winter warfare in Westeros means moving through snow all the time. But is that necessarily so? As I recall, there are mentions of summer snows; but could there be winter thawings as well? Basically, something like false spring or false winter, but at timeframe long enough to make them into actual spring and actual winter. So long summer would actually be spring-summer-autumn-winter, while long winter would be winter-autumn-winter/autumn-winter.

It heavily depends on the quality of the Winter.

So let's pick this into small pieces:

- During the Dance of the Dragons Cregan Stark marched his men into war well during winter; it seems that that particular winter, while harsh in the north wasn't that bad in the south, so fighting could still be done. One can assume that it wasn't really cold at all in the Reach and further south, while it might have been possible to work with winter barley and similar crops even in the Riverlands and the West, at least in the southern parts of whose, as well as the Crownlands. It might have been snow in the Riverlands etc., but nothing like what we see in the North during ADwD and the sample-chapters.

- In 133 AC, when the Maiden's Day Ball is being held for Aegon III, it seems to be deep winter in the North, as Barba Bolton said, if the king wants to send her home, he should do this "with food, for the snows are deep and your people are starving" (damn, he should have married her!). So this winter, while horrible in the North, seems to have had little impact on the South, at least concerning food supplies.

- Jamie is talking about how the people should "pray for a last harvest" in the Riverlands before he wakes up to snow in Riverrun, so normally Winter would not march that fast South, nor would it's impact be as severe as in the North for a long time.

- It seems that a lot of problems normal Winter is causing in Westeros is because of idiots in charge, as while the Wildling are raiding more frequently in Winter, and are starving too, they seem to be able to work better than the average Northerner around the obstacles, as is the Night Watch. Seems there are not enough bean-counters in the North to live in such a climate.

- We are also told by one character in Dunk & Egg that the winters got longer and more severe since the last dragon died, so it might well be - if his statement is true - that during the time Valyria still existed winters were very much manageable even in the North. It would explain why the Wildling settled north of the Wall in the first place.

Of course we aren't talking about a normal harsh winter here, so:

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

This means that - theoretically - there might be some crops which could be grown during winter as well, and terrain would not be impassable either - or at least not all the time, at least south of the Neck. As a result, armies (which are professional and not conscripted peasants) should be able to operate during winter as well.

In a normal winter, even a harsh one - yes. At least partially in the Riverlands and the West - and certainly without any obstacles as far South as the Reach or Dorne.

The winter coming now however is not a normal winter, but the Long Night, so we can expect weather to have an impact on warfare faster and further South than normally, as we have snow in the Riverlands and KL in late autumn/at the start of winter already; something that would not be very common and is indeed a problem, as we can dissect from Jamie's thoughts.

However, it will of course take it's time to reach the South, and one can assume that the drifts will not be as deep, the snowfall not as long and steady as in the North for a longer period. And of course truly professional armies such as the Golden Company will also be operable much longer and better even under shitty weather than conscripted peasants or half-professionals will.

So the weather will indeed be an advantage for the GC in the beginning, imho.

What we imho will see though the course of TWoW, is that it is getting colder and darker even south of the neck, maybe we will even see crops and fruits freezing to death as far south as the Reach or Dorne somewhere in the middle or end of the book, simply because this regions would normally grow species not that resistant to cold.

[Loose Bolt]

Another thing is that war seems to be one way that northmen try to make sure that their children would have better chances for survival. Or by sending additional males away from their homes those people who stay behind should have more food for themselves.

I assume that Starks and other lords of the North are much more aggressive during winters than during any another seasons. After all those lords have to somehow use those loose men or they would became huge potential security risk for status quo. So it would be logical for them to send those "hunters" against any potential enemy and the fact that most of loose men will never survive that trip is just how the world works and so their deaths are accepted even by their surviving relatives as necessary sacrifice.

[Back door hodor]

Yea I also think there are periods of of unseasonable warmth/cold within seasons, Neds mention of Summer snows and the year of the false spring both point to this.

I also speculate that Dorne and the reach get little to no Snow, even in winter(excluding the mountains between the two regions.)

The text tells us that wars are definitely fought during Winter, both the Novels and the "history books" and the fact the the population of Westeros does not reduce exponentially every winter points to food being grown still somewhere. 

Side note, WTF do wildlings eat? There seem to be too many of them to sustain themselves on simple hunting and gathering, we know they have livestock(at least some of them, craster does anyway.) But the land North of the Wall seems less than ideal for actual farming to day the least

[Lord Varys]

Winter shouldn't be that much of an issue in the southern Reach and Dorne where it supposedly 'almost never' snows, but the northern Reach, the West, the Riverlands, KL, the Vale, etc. should be covered in snow for months and even years in those winter which last for years.

Chances are not that bad that in Dorne and around Oldtown people can plant some crops even in winter, although not the entire time and not enough to feed all of Westeros (there are no oranges from Dorne in winter, for instance).

But since the length of winter cannot be predicted, people in the regions where it does and might most likely snow cannot really 'plan for' or 'predict' when it would make sense to wage a war in winter.

They could, like Stannis, start to march on a sunny day only to find themselves stuck in a snowstorm before they have reached the battlefield.

That would be utter stupidity. The reason why winter wasn't 'war season' for the Romans is because you couldn't predict whether you would be stuck in snow or not. Thus it is stupid/suicidal to go to war in that season.

In that sense, even if there were long periods of mild cold/thawing/no snow in, say, the Riverlands or the Crownlands and the West, the people there would be complete idiots if they would think this was the right time to start a war. They could kill themselves and their people with such behavior.

In the series, they might jump on the chance to continue or finish a war that's already fought, of course.

16 hours ago, Morte said:

- During the Dance of the Dragons Cregan Stark marched his men into war well during winter; it seems that that particular winter, while harsh in the north wasn't that bad in the south, so fighting could still be done. One can assume that it wasn't really cold at all in the Reach and further south, while it might have been possible to work with winter barley and similar crops even in the Riverlands and the West, at least in the southern parts of whose, as well as the Crownlands. It might have been snow in the Riverlands etc., but nothing like what we see in the North during ADwD and the sample-chapters.

Winter is announced on Maiden's Day in 130 AC, and it seems the south does indeed get no winter weather until after the Dance is over - or at least the regions where there is fighting (around KL, Tumbleton) don't get any snow in 130-131 AC. If they got some winter weather than neither source reported on that.

One imagines that this six-year-winter only turned really bad, even in the North, during the Regency era, starting in 132 AC. Cregan would have likely marched with his big host sooner if the weather had made a last big harvest impossible.

16 hours ago, Morte said:

- In 133 AC, when the Maiden's Day Ball is being held for Aegon III, it seems to be deep winter in the North, as Barba Bolton said, if the king wants to send her home, he should do this "with food, for the snows are deep and your people are starving" (damn, he should have married her!). So this winter, while horrible in the North, seems to have had little impact on the South, at least concerning food supplies.

Yeah, at that time things were already pretty fucked up in the North at least. But we don't hear much about snow problems in KL during the later Regency, either, so either there wasn't much snow and cold there, or the sources/Gyldayn didn't bother with such things.

16 hours ago, Morte said:

- Jamie is talking about how the people should "pray for a last harvest" in the Riverlands before he wakes up to snow in Riverrun, so normally Winter would not march that fast South, nor would it's impact be as severe as in the North for a long time.

To be sure, Stannis' storm is clearly identified as an autumn storm by the clansmen. It is not a winter snowstorm and something the Northmen don't find particularly cold or gruesome - which puts winter as experienced in the Stormlands into perspective. The people around Storm's End and the Kingswood and the Marches and Cape Wrath don't have the kind of winter weather in their homeland the Northmen call 'autumn storms'.

Jaime doesn't know that the Citadel is about to announce the beginning of winter, so he doesn't have all the pieces when he expresses his hope, but if we take the Dance comparison then it doesn't seem that implausible that one can still bring in one harvest in the Riverlands or the Reach even if winter has begun officially. At least when we are talking a mild or short winter.

But in a harder winter - like the part of winter that followed the false spring on 281 AC - we have giant icicles in KL and a Blackwater frozen shut - which means severe cold and a lot of snow for a pretty long period of time. Broad, fast-flowing rivers don't froze shut quickly, and icicles only grow gigantic if there is a series of freezing and melting periods (due to heating the people in the houses generate).

16 hours ago, Morte said:

- We are also told by one character in Dunk & Egg that the winters got longer and more severe since the last dragon died, so it might well be - if his statement is true - that during the time Valyria still existed winters were very much manageable even in the North. It would explain why the Wildling settled north of the Wall in the first place.

There is some evidence for that in FaB with there possibly being a very quick succession of seasons during the First Dornish War - starting in the second year of autumn in 4 AC with 8 AC allegedly being a very dry year where the Dornishmen burned parts of the Rainwood - which sort of implied this was either a spring or even a summer year. This could mean winter started in 5 AC and lasted, perhaps, until 6 AC, and then we had a sunny spring year in 7 AC, with summer beginning in 8 AC.

16 hours ago, Morte said:

However, it will of course take it's time to reach the South, and one can assume that the drifts will not be as deep, the snowfall not as long and steady as in the North for a longer period. And of course truly professional armies such as the Golden Company will also be operable much longer and better even under shitty weather than conscripted peasants or half-professionals will.

Winter weather could also help the outlaws in the Riverlands for the time being - I expect the Twins will be taken and the Freys slaughtered when the river is frozen shut and their stupid bridge will be irrelevant - but fighting there should not last much longer.

In KL the weather certainly could change again. I expect we could have some sort of false spring/false dawn when Aegon take the city and has people cheer him and celebrate a lavish coronation/wedding ceremony, only for winter come back with a vengeance a fortnight later.

Realistically, large campaigns should only be fought in the Crownlands, the Stormlands, the Reach, Dorne, and, perhaps, the West, depending how the weather is there (while no POVs are there we are not likely to get any reports).

People from regions where snow has already set in are not likely very keen to send troops to fight in war, regardless for what reason. Meaning that the size of the armies fighting in winter weather will be much smaller than those we got in the War of the Five Kings - or might see being assembled in the Reach to retake the Shields.

16 hours ago, Morte said:

What we imho will see though the course of TWoW, is that it is getting colder and darker even south of the neck, maybe we will even see crops and fruits freezing to death as far south as the Reach or Dorne somewhere in the middle or end of the book, simply because this regions would normally grow species not that resistant to cold.

The next Sam chapter should give us a taste of 'official winter times' in Oldtown. It wasn't chilly down there in the last AFfC chapter, but he should give us some insight into whether they normal grow and crops in autumn/winter in the lands outside the city.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Martin has confirmed that “spirit summers” are a thing, allowing full harvests to be grown and collected even in the North during these interludes in the middle of Winter. But they are unpredictable so never a sure thing.

 

[Aldarion]

8 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That would be utter stupidity. The reason why winter wasn't 'war season' for the Romans is because you couldn't predict whether you would be stuck in snow or not. Thus it is stupid/suicidal to go to war in that season.

 

Romans avoided going to war during winter, but they still did it with some regularity (one example). They would also start wars in summer but continue them through winter (though it often consisted simply of army wintering in enemy territory). Against barbarians however Romans would deliberately campaign through winter, as barbarians would not be able to sustain winter warfare and would not have thick undergrowth to hide in.

And Hungary in 15th century actually considered autumn and winter as campaign season, as kingdom was quite poor and thus had to bring in the summer crops to finance any kind of offensive warfare in the first place. It did cause trouble with supply and movement (Balkans, mountains, snows...) but was clearly considered practical. Look at campaigns of John Hunyadi:

Battle of Vasaq - September 1442

Campaign of 1443
campaign start - September 1443
campaign end - January 1444

Varna:
campaign start - September 1444
battle of Varna - November 1444

War of 1446
campaign start - April 1446
campaign end - mid-to-late 1446 (treaty)

Battle of Kosovo
campaign start - September 1448
Battle of Kosovo - 18th - 19th October 1448

Siege of Belgrade - July 1456

Matthias Corvinus didn't do it as frequently, but some of his campaigns were still fought during winter:

Siege of Neytra - December 1471

Fall of Korneuburg - 1st December 1484

Siege of Vienna - 29th January - 1st June 1485

Siege of Wiener Neustadt - 13th January - 17th August 1487

This is relevant because the closest thing to Westerosi "banner" system of military organization is actually Hungarian banderial system - in fact, banderium means literally "banner". Where Martin got his "banner" system from I do not know, but I do not think that Hungary was somehow hypercompetent and achieved something no other kingdom did. So Hungarian military performance should be good rough outline for what Westerosi should be capable of. And "winter warfare" is definitely on list of things "Westerosi should be capable of".

 

Of course, as other posters have pointed out, issue still remains that it is Long Night coming, not just normal winter.

[Loose Bolt]

Another thing is that frozen rivers and lakes would make moving troops easier. Naturally assuming that ice is thick enough to support them.

[Lord Varys]

23 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Romans avoided going to war during winter, but they still did it with some regularity (one example). They would also start wars in summer but continue them through winter (though it often consisted simply of army wintering in enemy territory). Against barbarians however Romans would deliberately campaign through winter, as barbarians would not be able to sustain winter warfare and would not have thick undergrowth to hide in.

Well, it is just a rule of thumb. In our world you do have a calendar that actually fits with the seasons and allows you to expect no more than 3-4 wintery months in Europe.

In Martinworld this isn't the case.

If we had more information how the Citadel measures the seasons and whether there are methods to predict which months in a winter or summer year are going to be particularly cold and particularly hot (sort of like with the real world seasons) then one could, perhaps, assume that people could properly plan a campaign in winter.

But as things stand, this simply isn't the case. Thus anybody going to war in winter does risk to see his men starve and freeze to death. One also has to consider that the people as a whole are not likely to suffer madness like this. One can certainly see conquerors back in the First Men and Andal days march on foreign territory and starving out/eradicating an enemy by stealing/destroying winter provisions and starving out a lord or king or holing up inside a castle, but since the Conquest it seem inconceivable that a lord or king could get away with deliberately endangering huge portions of the population by going to war in winter and living off the winter provisions of a population, just put down some rebel lord/pretender.

Even if the landed knights/peasants could stop such campaign from happening, they could take their vengeance next spring. If something like Tywin's Riverlands campaign took place in winter then it could lead to the depopuation of an entire region, because hundreds of thousands or millions of people could starve to death simply because winter provisions are destroyed/stolen.

A society where something like that would be done would simply not survive.

George took whatever banner talk he as from either Druon or Costain. But there isn't really a banner system considering pretty much any lord and knight gathers his own men and marches under his own banner.

On 7/19/2020 at 7:16 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Martin has confirmed that “spirit summers” are a thing, allowing full harvests to be grown and collected even in the North during these interludes in the middle of Winter. But they are unpredictable so never a sure thing.

Yeah, that kind of thing makes no sense unless people could predict how long such periods would last. Seeds are not exactly a commodity to be wasted, meaning people should not try to plant crops when they would not know if winter came back tomorrow to destroy what they planted.

19 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Another thing is that frozen rivers and lakes would make moving troops easier. Naturally assuming that ice is thick enough to support them.

One cannot help but wonder whether George ever thought that through. Riverrun is a joke as a castle if you consider that the rivers might be frozen shut through for months and years for months and even years in most, if not all winters.

[Aldarion]

24 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

George took whatever banner talk he as from either Druon or Costain. But there isn't really a banner system considering pretty much any lord and knight gathers his own men and marches under his own banner.

 

Is that the case for major campaigns as well? Considering the sizes of field armies (10 000 by Dorne, 20 000 by North, 20 000 by Westerlands), some form of standardization must exist, otherwise calculating supply requirements and all other paperwork would be impossible. This document is about Byzantine army, but same argument applies for any premodern army of significant size (modern armies manage to have not-standardized units thanks to being supplied by expert record keepers).

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

Is that the case for major campaigns as well? Considering the sizes of field armies (10 000 by Dorne, 20 000 by North, 20 000 by Westerlands), some form of standardization must exist, otherwise calculating supply requirements and all other paperwork would be impossible. This document is about Byzantine army, but same argument applies for any premodern army of significant size (modern armies manage to have not-standardized units thanks to being supplied by expert record keepers).

Given how the banners are gathered, it seems like it would likely fall to the individual commanders at the various levels to ensure their units / men had sustenance. At a certain point, food would have to be sourced locally since you'd eat through your stores on the march. Traditionally that was done by stockpiling at a forward supply base (e.g. Richard I and Sicily / Cyprus), Henry V and the Cinque Ports and later Calais / Caen. The men fo the first crusade brought enough food to get them through Germany but relied their own money and markets being open to them to source their food starting in Hungary / Albania. 

Most Westeros supply lines wouldn't need to mirror the crusades preparation except the Northerners and Dorne due to the distance.   

[Morte]

3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Is that the case for major campaigns as well? Considering the sizes of field armies (10 000 by Dorne, 20 000 by North, 20 000 by Westerlands), some form of standardization must exist, otherwise calculating supply requirements and all other paperwork would be impossible.

I'm afraid this is another warfare-plothole... But I don't think it will be that much to bother with - the text will say that they are lacking provisions, or that army xy is starving or has to plunder and forage.

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

23 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

Another thing is that frozen rivers and lakes would make moving troops easier. Naturally assuming that ice is thick enough to support them.

One cannot help but wonder whether George ever thought that through. Riverrun is a joke as a castle if you consider that the rivers might be frozen shut through for months and years for months and even years in most, if not all winters.

Clearly, he didn't.

On 7/19/2020 at 4:26 AM, Lord Varys said:

Quote

- We are also told by one character in Dunk & Egg that the winters got longer and more severe since the last dragon died, so it might well be - if his statement is true - that during the time Valyria still existed winters were very much manageable even in the North. It would explain why the Wildling settled north of the Wall in the first place.

There is some evidence for that in FaB with there possibly being a very quick succession of seasons during the First Dornish War - starting in the second year of autumn in 4 AC with 8 AC allegedly being a very dry year where the Dornishmen burned parts of the Rainwood - which sort of implied this was either a spring or even a summer year. This could mean winter started in 5 AC and lasted, perhaps, until 6 AC, and then we had a sunny spring year in 7 AC, with summer beginning in 8 AC.

Now this is interesting; this makes one wonder whether the name "Land of the Long Summer" had more to do with the winter-containing magic, and not just generally nice weather.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Given how the banners are gathered, it seems like it would likely fall to the individual commanders at the various levels to ensure their units / men had sustenance. At a certain point, food would have to be sourced locally since you'd eat through your stores on the march. Traditionally that was done by stockpiling at a forward supply base (e.g. Richard I and Sicily / Cyprus), Henry V and the Cinque Ports and later Calais / Caen. The men fo the first crusade brought enough food to get them through Germany but relied their own money and markets being open to them to source their food starting in Hungary / Albania. 

Most Westeros supply lines wouldn't need to mirror the crusades preparation except the Northerners and Dorne due to the distance.   

The idea the North or Dorne have a traditional system im place where they can move troops from Sunspear to the Marches or the Umber lands to Moat Cailin efficiently, isn't very likely. Historically, the Dornishmen/Northmen close to the Red Mountains/Neck would have made up the men for a conquest/raiding campaign into the Riverlands/Marches, not the entire military power of Dorne.

The Princes of Dorne/Kings in the North wouldn't have tried to use the Riverlands or Reach as battlefield to war with the Lannisters of Casterly Rock - like Robb did when he marched down south.

5 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Is that the case for major campaigns as well? Considering the sizes of field armies (10 000 by Dorne, 20 000 by North, 20 000 by Westerlands), some form of standardization must exist, otherwise calculating supply requirements and all other paperwork would be impossible. This document is about Byzantine army, but same argument applies for any premodern army of significant size (modern armies manage to have not-standardized units thanks to being supplied by expert record keepers).

There is talk of banners and bannermen, but we don't have any clue which houses do count as such, nor whether they have any kind of jurisdiction over the others. Instead, it seems any lord with a banner of his own does count as a bannerman, although they would be the bannermen of mid-tier lords who in turn serve as bannermen to Winterfell or Highgarden.

1 hour ago, Morte said:

Now this is interesting; this makes one wonder whether the name "Land of the Long Summer" had more to do with the winter-containing magic, and not just generally nice weather.

I'd imagine that 'Lands of the Long Summer' isn't a name the people of the peninsula gave to themselves. They wouldn't know winter down there, just as the Summer Islanders don't seem to know winter - although both could know a less hot season, something like autumn or spring.

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

The idea the North or Dorne have a traditional system im place where they can move troops from Sunspear to the Marches or the Umber lands to Moat Cailin efficiently, isn't very likely. Historically, the Dornishmen/Northmen close to the Red Mountains/Neck would have made up the men for a conquest/raiding campaign into the Riverlands/Marches, not the entire military power of Dorne.

The Princes of Dorne/Kings in the North wouldn't have tried to use the Riverlands or Reach as battlefield to war with the Lannisters of Casterly Rock - like Robb did when he marched down south.

I was speaking more to a hypothetical distance than  practice of it, but the last few wars they have explicit details on (RR and Wo5K) we know that the "marcher" lords in Dorne and the North didn't provide the majority of troops (Few Ryswell troops are mentioned before ADWD, Dustin sent as few as possible, Manderly kept most of his strength back) or that they marched well beyond the bordering region and / or fought thousands of miles away from home (e.g. Umbers, Karstarks, most northmen in RR).

I agree on the lack of evidence for it in the book, but he asked about real world examples. As you and Ran have both acknowledged, GRRM isn't one to quibble of details of transport and logistics.

[Aldarion]

19 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Given how the banners are gathered, it seems like it would likely fall to the individual commanders at the various levels to ensure their units / men had sustenance. At a certain point, food would have to be sourced locally since you'd eat through your stores on the march. Traditionally that was done by stockpiling at a forward supply base (e.g. Richard I and Sicily / Cyprus), Henry V and the Cinque Ports and later Calais / Caen. The men fo the first crusade brought enough food to get them through Germany but relied their own money and markets being open to them to source their food starting in Hungary / Albania. 

Most Westeros supply lines wouldn't need to mirror the crusades preparation except the Northerners and Dorne due to the distance.   

Look at first Crusade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_forces_of_the_First_Crusade

40 000 men, of which 20% were noncombatants, and cavalry-to-infantry ratio of 1-7. These were divided into seven armies which only united at Constantinople - and from that point on they could rely on Byzantine logistical arrangements. That is absolutely not comparable to ASoIaF where we have armies of tens of thousands with much higher cavalry-to-infantry ratio running around in homogenous hordes without apparent benefit of Byzantine logistical apparatus.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Look at first Crusade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_forces_of_the_First_Crusade

40 000 men, of which 20% were noncombatants, and cavalry-to-infantry ratio of 1-7. These were divided into seven armies which only united at Constantinople - and from that point on they could rely on Byzantine logistical arrangements. That is absolutely not comparable to ASoIaF where we have armies of tens of thousands with much higher cavalry-to-infantry ratio running around in homogenous hordes without apparent benefit of Byzantine logistical apparatus.

Oh man they absolutely could not rely on consistent Byzantine logistics. They only sent a small scouting force with the crusaders and they turned back before Antioch. There were large stretches both pre Constantinople and Post Constantiople in byzantine controlled or allied territory where the local markets refused to sell anything and the crusaders looted / pillaged. It was so bad it strained the crusader relationship with the Byzantines going forward along with how to split territory conquered.

 It seems that during the First Crusade, at a critical juncture in their ongoing social and political relationship, the supply of food seriously undermined relations between the crusaders and the Byzantines, gravely tarnishing political and military negotiations, and setting a precedent that clouded future interaction.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44173099?seq=1