sifth Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I'm conflicted on things when it comes to season 3 of Discovery. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. It was a step in the right direction and had several episodes solve problems without the use of violence, which made me really happy. To be honest, season 3 of Discovery felt like season 1 of every other Trek show I've seen, which is both a good and a bad thing; good because it finally felt like Trek, bad because nearly every first season of Trek sucked. I still don't understand why Burnham wasn't just made the captain from the very beginning; I mean she was already placed in positions of command at least 5 or 6 times already, so I'm not sure what the point was in having her be a lower ranking officer. The fact that the show refuses to develop any of the cast beyond Burnham is another issue the show has suffered from. It's shocking to see the show is scared to let characters stand on their own feet and solve their own problems without Burnham's help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 The thing about Discovery (as well as Picard I guess) is that it takes itself so damn seriously, while offering plots that lack the depth that we'd expect of a Trek show. That trailer embodies everything that doesn't work for me. Spectacular images but a plot that depends on high stakes and action, while focusing on a single character. There'll probably be a bit more to the season than that, but the trailer is awful at selling it imho, and looks like it was made for a 2h movie. The reason I like Lower Decks is precisely because it never tried to pretend it would offer much depth. Or much anything. It was, and still is, the show that's not meant to be good in the first place, so it's all the more exciting when it pulls off the sweet balance between plot and charaterization, the right pace, and at least a few jokes that land. It helps that it has two main characters (Boimler and Mariner), but also takes the time to develop many others. Episode 9 was dope btw. It had a lot of great moments and great jokes for a 20-minute episode. And it creates an actual story and abtly introduces two new characters, one of which has serious comic potential. That "live long and prosper, sir" is pure gold. As is the final joke. T'Lyn will be a good addition to our cast of main characters. She clearly has the spunk to stand up to Mariner and a curiosity and enthusiasm for science that will match that of Rutherford and Tendy. Of course, it's easy to see exactly how she will interact with Mariner and Boimler (cold and distant) before warming up to them (Boimler first, then Mariner), so I hope they subvert our expectations here a bit. At any rate, it's always nice to have a Vulcan perspective. I only wonder if she will join the crew at the very beginning or at the very end of the finale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I too just binged Lower Decks season two so far. Great stuff. I half expect them to kill Boimler and then replace him with his double at some point. I've read that was the original plan for Riker. Also: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 22 hours ago, Rippounet said: Hide contents That "live long and prosper, sir" is pure gold. As is the final joke. T'Lyn will be a good addition to our cast of main characters. She clearly has the spunk to stand up to Mariner and a curiosity and enthusiasm for science that will match that of Rutherford and Tendy. Of course, it's easy to see exactly how she will interact with Mariner and Boimler (cold and distant) before warming up to them (Boimler first, then Mariner), so I hope they subvert our expectations here a bit. At any rate, it's always nice to have a Vulcan perspective. I only wonder if she will join the crew at the very beginning or at the very end of the finale. T'Lyn was beyond awesome. Has it been confirmed that she's joining the cast next year? I have to give Lower Decks even more credit than usual for actually creating the first Vulcan character I didn't hate. Don't get me wrong, Spock is cool, but he's also half human and Tim Russ is an awesome actor and a very funny guy, but was wasted playing Tuvok, IMO. To this day I still feel, Tim Russ would have been much better playing a Romulan. Back on topic, I fully agree with you about last weeks episode being extremely good. It both explored the casts personal relationships and expanded it's universe at the same time; not something easily pulled off in around only 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Mmh, not sure I can agree all that much. I think T'Lyn falls into the exact same mold of the super duper special mega genius who knows everything better and is always right. They only made her sympathetic by making her crewmates absolutely insufferable obstructionists. Maybe I would have liked it more if she convinced her superiors that her alterations were purely logical additions for the success of their mission or the effectiveness of their ship instead of just doing it on her own completely blindsiding the chain of command and then going "I had a gut feeling, trust meeeeeee!" when she's called out on it. The end point of that story could still be the captain suggesting a transfer to Starfleet to make use of her creative thinking instead of adding just another maverick who can't play by the rules. We already got Mariner for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, sifth said: T'Lyn was beyond awesome. Has it been confirmed that she's joining the cast next year? There's still one more episode on Thursday so I suspect we'll find out then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 9 hours ago, sifth said: T'Lyn was beyond awesome. Has it been confirmed that she's joining the cast next year? It's just my assumption. But honestly, I think it's a pretty safe bet. 8 hours ago, Toth said: Mmh, not sure I can agree all that much. I think T'Lyn falls into the exact same mold of the super duper special mega genius who knows everything better and is always right. They only made her sympathetic by making her crewmates absolutely insufferable obstructionists. [...] The end point of that story could still be the captain suggesting a transfer to Starfleet to make use of her creative thinking instead of adding just another maverick who can't play by the rules. We already got Mariner for that. The irony may be that T'Lyn will no longer be a maverick once she's surrounded by humans. On the Cerritos, she'll be encouraged and praised for following her "gut feelings." Which is, of course, something her captain would have known/expected. Hence why he told her she was jumping to conclusions again: it is clear that her assignment to the Cerritos will prove immensely rewarding for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I'm honestly expect Mariner and T'Lyn to get on each others nerves, while at the same time getting along with Boimler quite well. This is just a guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 22 hours ago, Rippounet said: Episode 9 was dope btw. It had a lot of great moments and great jokes for a 20-minute episode. And it creates an actual story and abtly introduces two new characters, one of which has serious comic potential. Reveal hidden contents That "live long and prosper, sir" is pure gold. As is the final joke. T'Lyn will be a good addition to our cast of main characters. She clearly has the spunk to stand up to Mariner and a curiosity and enthusiasm for science that will match that of Rutherford and Tendy. Of course, it's easy to see exactly how she will interact with Mariner and Boimler (cold and distant) before warming up to them (Boimler first, then Mariner), so I hope they subvert our expectations here a bit. At any rate, it's always nice to have a Vulcan perspective. I only wonder if she will join the crew at the very beginning or at the very end of the finale. I did enjoy the different 'Lower Decks' groups on the various ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Star Trek Voyager is much better when you can binge it and not have to pay too much attention to any of it. But then Season 2 episode 15 Threshold comes on and it's absolutely riveting how awful it gets. Paris tests out a shuttle crossing the Warp 10 barrier and begins to "evolve". Ok, what environment conditions is he evolving in response to?? And then he kidnaps Janeway, goes Warp 10 again with her and she turns into a lizard too. And they have little lizard babies. Was it premediated sexual assault, brushed off with Janeway's "how do you know it was my idea?" I can't even. Sooner or later I have a feeling someone on the Voyager writing staff is going to have their Me Too moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Me and my friends were talking about the Tuvix episode just the other night and we were shocked by that fact that the episode is over 20 years old and yet so dam memorable. I honestly don't think any of the new Trek episodes have reached that point yet, where they've made episodes that I'll still be thinking about 20 years or so into the future; even Lower Decks, which as I've stated many times is a show I find very enjoyable, has still yet to reach the place that 90's Trek has for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 8 hours ago, williamjm said: I did enjoy the different 'Lower Decks' groups on the various ships. The credit gag with the Borg lower decks was fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I just realized, if they add T'Lyn to the main cast, it probably is in order to have a regular in the science division. Also... I'm somewhat surprised that with the exception of Shaxs (who doesn't really count given that he's bridge crew) we also don't have a security officer regular in a show about redshirts. If Ma'ah hadn't become captain at the end of the episode, I would wonder whether the point of it was to also introduce him as a possible cast member to rectify that. I mean he could still get the boot if the guy he killed had good connections that now have it out for him, but still, from his whole personality he would fit much better into the command division like Boimler and Beckett. In addition to that I'm thinking it would fit the theme of the show a whole lot to have a bumbling nerdy security officer to counter Shaxs' hypermasculine action hero personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 18 hours ago, sifth said: Me and my friends were talking about the Tuvix episode just the other night and we were shocked by that fact that the episode is over 20 years old and yet so dam memorable. I honestly don't think any of the new Trek episodes have reached that point yet, where they've made episodes that I'll still be thinking about 20 years or so into the future; even Lower Decks, which as I've stated many times is a show I find very enjoyable, has still yet to reach the place that 90's Trek has for me. I podcasted that episode, possibly the most absurd in the entire franchise, live, and it was a hoot. I even made sure everyone in the audience had a photo of Tuvix, to ensure they knew what that hideous space-goblin looked like. Janeway's only mistake was not spacing him right off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyria Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 11 hours ago, Maltaran said: The credit gag with the Borg lower decks was fun We wait to watch it until Monday nights when we have a weekly hangout with one of our friends, so I check this thread after, so I don't get spoiled. This episode was fantastic. We all giggled so hard through the credits. Coulda been the wine for me, coulda been the weed for them, but it was so much awesome. I really do love Lower Decks. For me, it is second only to DS9. We watched the latest trailer for Discovery last night too, and we're all meh on it. It was part of our weekly meet up watch session, and we're going to check out the first ep when it airs to see if we want to keep hate watching it together. I have a feeling that we'll end up skipping it, and just hate watching it on our own. Picard used to be on the list too, but that's also a huge meh for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, TrackerNeil said: I podcasted that episode, possibly the most absurd in the entire franchise, live, and it was a hoot. I even made sure everyone in the audience had a photo of Tuvix, to ensure they knew what that hideous space-goblin looked like. Janeway's only mistake was not spacing him right off. I mean you're free to have your opinion, but I honestly don't think the argument of killing one life to save two, is quite that black and white as you seem to believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, sifth said: I mean you're free to have your opinion, but I honestly don't think the argument of killing one life to save two, is quite that black and white as you seem to believe it is. I dunno, one of those lives was Neelix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 1:12 AM, sifth said: Me and my friends were talking about the Tuvix episode just the other night and we were shocked by that fact that the episode is over 20 years old and yet so dam memorable. I honestly don't think any of the new Trek episodes have reached that point yet, where they've made episodes that I'll still be thinking about 20 years or so into the future; even Lower Decks, which as I've stated many times is a show I find very enjoyable, has still yet to reach the place that 90's Trek has for me. There are at least two Voyager episodes nobody who's seen them ever forgets. One is the Tuvix episode, the other is the mad thing where Tom invents the Warp 10 engine, evolves into a frog and has offspring with Janeway. Nobody ever forgets that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 Just got to the episode where Tuvok mind melds with a murderer, played by Wormtongue, and then chokes the life out of Neelix. That's the episode right after the Warp 10 episode, Threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: There are at least two Voyager episodes nobody who's seen them ever forgets. One is the Tuvix episode, the other is the mad thing where Tom invents the Warp 10 engine, evolves into a frog and has offspring with Janeway. Nobody ever forgets that. And the crew never, ever mentions it again, which I suppose is what you would do. But, still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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