polishgenius Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Raja said: I just had a look and oof, those replies are...something. The gender colonizer bit did make me laugh, ngl. Anecdotally, having lived in both the UK & the US, the UK seems to be miles behind the US in terms of trans activism whilst also being completely filled with TERFs. Makes me big sad. Do I follow you? I know I did on my old one but I think I haven't seen you for a while unless you've changed/I forgot your handle, and maybe I told you my new one but forgot to follow back, uncouthly? Anyway yeah it's depressing as shit. Partly it is because I'm British but my interactions are quite widespread and the vast majority of twitter terfery I see comes from Britain. It's just a really, awfully strong movement here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, polishgenius said: Today I commented on twitter that people shouldn't send death threats to JK Rowling even though she's a bigot and my comments have since been indundated with Brits screaming waaaah she's not a bigot waaah! Fucking terf island, man. In an article I read someone (I don't remember the name) said that feminism in the UK (esp academic feminism? memory is so bad) has basically been hijacked by transphobic cis-women. It's bad, but I can kinda see their perspective, that they are fighting for women's rights, and their struggle is being marginalised (so they believe) and usurped by trans-activism. Therefore they see trans-rights as competing for attestation and primacy in the struggle against the patriarchy rather than the causes being allied / aligned against a common foe. I wonder if feminism is really no longer a useful term in the struggle against the patriarchy. today it's all about achieving gender equality, which is to say the equality of all genders with that of the currently politically and economically dominant cis-man gender. Terfs seem to be fighting a rearguard action trying to keep the cause narrowly focused on their specific interests dating back to their activist awakening in the 60's and 70's where the talk was just about the plight of women at at time when there was no confusion that women = cis-women. 2 hours ago, DMC said: That math doesn't make sense. Just because 40% of those hospitalized for covid have been vaccinated does not mean 40% of all vaccinated people are being hospitalized. I think the important take away here is that being fully vaccinated does not prevent you from infection, or illness or hospitalisation, or even death. It just massively reduces the risk of each. And also the risk of each of these is some % higher with the Delta variant compared to the variant on which the vaccines were developed. So it is important for people not to simply throw all caution to the wind with high vaccination rates. People should still use other measures to further reduce the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 6 hours ago, polishgenius said: Today I commented on twitter that people shouldn't send death threats to JK Rowling even though she's a bigot and my comments have since been indundated with Brits screaming waaaah she's not a bigot waaah! Fucking terf island, man. You should do an experiment where you also tweet that you don’t think Rowling is a bigot and see what reaction you get and compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Would need an alt account for that. And I am sure there are plenty of JKR defenders who have already tweeted more or less exactly that. There must be a few among the tsunami of her supporters who also inhabit Twitter. It is interesting the sub-theme of her most famous works is about wizards and muggles existing in the same world but living completely separate realities. Perhaps she's a segregationist at heart. Diverse communities can't coexists, so they have to find a way to exist separately with minimal interaction. In her books she uses the safe and completely fictional notion of magical and non-magical segregation (to keep magic folk "safe" from muggles). But it is merely allegorical for segregation on whatever ethnic or cultural lines that one deems most significant to one's identity. In her case it seems to be sex, and in particular anyone not fitting the binary definition thereof. Keep them out of polite society. They can be who they are, but in their own little social enclave. Don't make things weird for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Or you just say ‘I’ve changed my mind, she’s not a bigot’. Either way I’m quite sure there would be a tsunami of abuse no matter what position you took on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said: In an article I read someone (I don't remember the name) said that feminism in the UK (esp academic feminism? memory is so bad) has basically been hijacked by transphobic cis-women. It's bad, but I can kinda see their perspective, that they are fighting for women's rights, and their struggle is being marginalised (so they believe) and usurped by trans-activism. Therefore they see trans-rights as competing for attestation and primacy in the struggle against the patriarchy rather than the causes being allied / aligned against a common foe. I wonder if feminism is really no longer a useful term in the struggle against the patriarchy. today it's all about achieving gender equality, which is to say the equality of all genders with that of the currently politically and economically dominant cis-man gender. Terfs seem to be fighting a rearguard action trying to keep the cause narrowly focused on their specific interests dating back to their activist awakening in the 60's and 70's where the talk was just about the plight of women at at time when there was no confusion that women = cis-women. Social media outcry isn’t the best gage towards actual real life social sentiment. I think there may be a real danger in overestimating the Terfs magnitude in regards to feminism. Even in the academic context. There’s an concerted and insidious conservative push largely funded By America’s religious right to try frame women’s rights groups, and feminists, and women(white women because nearly everyone hates them because misogyny is more socially acceptable if it’s directed at white women to leftists and progressives), as being the ones who have the most problem with trans people in women’s spaces. They Don’t want the public perception of whose most angry with the existence of trans people being conservative religious men like say Dennis Prager; instead white women who’d identify as feminist like Rowling. Terfs are useful idiots for the religious right who recognize their 80s style rhetoric heathens and sinners won’t be well received by certain audiences who’d be more religiously apathetic and by many aspects socially liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 57 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: And I am sure there are plenty of JKR defenders who have already tweeted more or less exactly that. Rowling by any reasonable metric is a transphobe and anyone saying she isn’t probably agrees with the things she’s said that are transphobic. At this point you’d have as good a chance at convincing a fan of David Duke’s he’s anti-Semitic. he doesn’t say he hates Jews. He just says he’d protect the white race from Jews. How dare anyone rush to judge this man just for wanting to protect his family. Whose the real bigot. Sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Think we need to coin the ‘Varys law’ which denotes that as any online thread grows longer @Varysblackfyre321 will inevitably compare somebody to David Duke or Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 So today is freedom day, but September will be is the no-vaccine no-play day. Does anyone think the horse will have bolted by then? Does an analogy count as a comparison? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 Well it was ‘freedom day’ except that masks were mandatory in most situations still, social distancing was still happening, the prime minister was having to self isolate despite being jabbed and having had the rona already and to really give us that sense of freedom, vaccine passports were introduced for nightclubs and indoor events. I’m sure there was cheering in the streets at this level of ‘freedom’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 20, 2021 Author Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: Or you just say ‘I’ve changed my mind, she’s not a bigot’. Either way I’m quite sure there would be a tsunami of abuse no matter what position you took on the topic. But then I'd be lying and hurting several of my friends. If your point is that there are anti-TERF people who are horrible and should shut the fuck up, that was the whole point of my original tweet, so I neither need the bothsiding nor do I need to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, polishgenius said: But then I'd be lying and hurting several of my friends. If your point is that there are anti-TERF people who are horrible and should shut the fuck up, that was the whole point of my original tweet, so I neither need the bothsiding nor do I need to do it again. I would have thought the death threats directed towards JK was ample demonstration of that. No need for an experiment to prove a thing that is already clearly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: Think we need to coin the ‘Varys law’ which denotes that as any online thread grows longer @Varysblackfyre321 will inevitably compare somebody to David Duke or Hitler. Aha! I didn’t compare Rowling to David Duke. I compared people who’d deny Rowling’s transphobia to the people who’d deny Duke’s anti-semitism. Check mate, I win the ASOIAF Though seriously for others. I think it’s worth noting this is a willful sidestep from actually arguing against the fact that Rowling is a transphobe. Just imply the comparison for the type of people who’d deny Duke’s anti-semitism and Rowling’s transphobia is improper…and imply any claims of Rowling being a transphobe is improper and worth dismissal with no elaboration. It’s not a bad trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: I would have thought the death threats directed towards JK was ample demonstration of that. No need for an experiment to prove a thing that is already clearly true. Yep, in a sea of billions of people you’re going to find some people issuing death threats towards others for anything and everything. Especially when you’ve achieved some significant public notoriety whose given an opinion surrounding a topic. To be clear I agree with the idea of not sending death threats. Even to Transphobic pieces of shit like Rowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Though seriously for others. I think it’s worth noting this is a willful sidestep from actually arguing against the fact that Rowling is a transphobe. Just imply the comparison for the type of people who’d deny Duke’s anti-semitism and Rowling’s transphobia is improper…and imply any claims of Rowling being a transphobe is improper and worth dismissal with no elaboration. It's simply an interesting observation of the way you interpret the world and how you conduct online conversations. That it happens so regularly with your posts is notable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: It's simply an interesting observation of the way you interpret the world and how you conduct online conversations. That it happens so regularly with your posts is notable. Oh another side step. No explicit defense of Rowling or the people who deny her blatant transphobia. There’s an implication of a flawed worldview on my part. My posts about Rowling and the people who’d deny her transphobia are further evidence of this. Again no explicit defense of the people criticized. It’s not a bad trick. If pressed I can see you declaring not knowing what’s in Rowling’s heart(default to relativism) and not seeing the validity in judging her as bigoted merely for the bigoted words she’s she’s said and things she’s done. I don’t think you’d be completely genuine. You are not ignorant in how you choose to speak. I recognize that my dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Oh another side step. No explicit defense of Rowling or the people who deny her blatant transphobia. There’s an implication of a flawed worldview on my part. My posts about Rowling and the people who’d deny her transphobia are further evidence of this. Again no explicit defense of the people criticized. It’s not a bad trick. If pressed I can see you declaring not knowing what’s in Rowling’s heart(default to relativism) and not seeing the validity in judging her as bigoted merely for the bigoted words she’s she’s said and things she’s done. I don’t think you’d be completely genuine. You are not ignorant in how you choose to speak. I recognize that my dude 1. I am under no obligation to discuss anything. No matter how often you choose to press me on a subject 2. I don’t really see what JK Rowling has to do with a UK poltics thread anyway 3. We already had this conversation in a previous thread and it was promptly closed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/confusion-as-protestors-demand-end-to-lockdown-on-day-lockdown-ends-282082/ Quote Confusion as protestors demand end to lockdown on day lockdown ends "This might actually be the dumbest protest of all time," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/confusion-as-protestors-demand-end-to-lockdown-on-day-lockdown-ends-282082/ Well it sounded like a dumb protest.. until later that day vaccine passports were introduced.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Well it sounded like a dumb protest.. until later that day vaccine passports were introduced.. Fair point, well made - beyond the pedantry that the passports won't be introduced for a couple of months yet (and possibly never if it's unpopular) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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