House of the Dragon Teaser Released

[Lord Varys]

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t know, I’ve often heard fans describe Aemond as a “badass,” so I don’t think most people saw him as a joke. Who do you think is the most dangerous Green then? 

Oh, I think Aemond could be shown as brutal, ruthless, cruel, with the largest dragon alive who can cause massive destruction ... but at the same an accurate description would also show him as a rash and stupid youth who didn't know what to do with the dragon he rode.

I'd say Alicent and Otto and to a lesser degree Criston Cole.

Alicent knew how to poison her children against Rhaenyra and how to cultivate her own coterie of followers. Otto was a shrewd and effective politician who knew how to stage a coup and win a war. If Aegon II hadn't sacked him, he would have won the war easily enough.

And Criston Cole knew how to command troops and win battles, even if he was endangering the life of his king in the process of that.

14 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

The point wasn't killing peasants, the point was to strike fear into the hearts of the Black Lords. It isn't just swords and spears and numbers that win wars, though they do help. It's morale. Imagine if you were one of the Black Lords and you heard that Prince Aemond was attacking castles, villages and towns. Wouldn't that sort of make you reconsider your allegiances? 

I know that this was the plan, but Aemond was just a single dragonrider in the Riverlands ... while Rhaenyra had KL and multiple dragonriders. He had no chance. If he had kept his army, had targeted castles in the Riverlands with the intention to force the lords and the people to join him and his army and then march against the city he could have turned the war around. But he didn't do that. He honestly thought he would defeat Rhaenyra by taking out all her dragonriders and dragons. That was just utter stupidity on his part.

You see how he could used his dragon with Addam Velaryon later on. He flew from castle to castle with his dragon and raised an army that way. Aemond did nothing of that sort.

Rhaenyra goes down because Ulf and Hugh betray her, because she and her advisers panic and antagonize the other dragonriders and the Velaryons, and because Daemon throws away his life.

If that hadn't happened Aemond would have been crushed like bug after the Blacks had destroyed the Greens at Tumbleton. Which they would have if Daemon had led the war effort there.

[Jaenara Belarys]

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I know that this was the plan, but Aemond was just a single dragonrider in the Riverlands ... while Rhaenyra had KL and multiple dragonriders. He had no chance. If he had kept his army, had targeted castles in the Riverlands with the intention to force the lords and the people to join him and his army and then march against the city he could have turned the war around. But he didn't do that. He honestly thought he would defeat Rhaenyra by taking out all her dragonriders and dragons. That was just utter stupidity on his part.

 

That's a much better plan, but it seems that Alicent's brood isn't the most intelligent.

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You see how he could used his dragon with Addam Velaryon later on. He flew from castle to castle with his dragon and raised an army that way. Aemond did nothing of that sort.

 

Wouldn't said army be very likely to turn on him at first opportunity? As you say, he's not the best battle commander, and his stated nature isn't diplomatic....IMO I would've loved to see the dialogue between Aemond and Lord Borros play out. 

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Rhaenyra goes down because Ulf and Hugh betray her, because she and her advisers panic and antagonize the other dragonriders and the Velaryons, and because Daemon throws away his life.

 

Along with all her own policies (i.e, taxes) along with all the stuff about Blood and Cheese, the Shepherd and Helaena's death. 

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

That's a much better plan, but it seems that Alicent's brood isn't the most intelligent.

Wouldn't said army be very likely to turn on him at first opportunity? As you say, he's not the best battle commander, and his stated nature isn't diplomatic....IMO I would've loved to see the dialogue between Aemond and Lord Borros play out. 

Well, he could have just threatened to burn villages and castles - like Addam implicitly did when he visited various castles and places with his dragons. Either you raise an army and fight for me or you risk that I turn my dragon against you.

Aemond just used his dragon as a weapon of terror without ever trying to convince the Riverlands to join him.

13 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Along with all her own policies (i.e, taxes) along with all the stuff about Blood and Cheese, the Shepherd and Helaena's death. 

The Shepherd would have never had any success if the Blacks had won at Tumbleton, the Velaryons had remained loyal, Addam Velaryon would have still in KL with a dragon, and the Kingslanders had reason to fear that Caraxes and Sheepstealer would sweep down on them if they were rioting.

Overall, the Dragonpit was likely only stormed because a weak woman sat on the Iron Throne ... and people actually were right that she wouldn't have the stones to burn them all.

[Daeron the Daring]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aemond just used his dragon as a weapon of terror without ever trying to convince the Riverlands to join him.

I think it is important to note that he was bewitched by Alys Rivers since he and Ser Criston retook Harrenhall. For reasons unknown, he decided not to remain with Ser Criston Cole and his host as well (it is important to note that he didn't want to team up with Daeron either), and therefore was always roaming the Riverlands. Alys Rivers might have been a reason why he did that. 

Other than that, I can imagine him having all this as a strategy that would make the lords of the Trident side with the Greens (the neutral ones and the Black supporters as well), in the fear of being burned down with in their holdings. 

And Aemond wasn't useless either. He was a thing that had to be taken care of. We are supposed to believe that this is what the Blacks tought as well, since Daemon and Nettles went after him. Without them, the blacks didn't have enough dragons to face Vermithor, Silverwing and Tessarion on the head of the reachmen army. In this sense, Aemond did a good job in being a distraction, altough the whole thing required the treachery of Ulf and Hugh. 

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I think it is important to note that he was bewitched by Alys Rivers since he and Ser Criston retook Harrenhall. For reasons unknown, he decided not to remain with Ser Criston Cole and his host as well (it is important to note that he didn't want to team up with Daeron either), and therefore was always roaming the Riverlands. Alys Rivers might have been a reason why he did that. 

That seems like a weirdo misogynistic story, to be honest, concocted by folks who tried to explain (away) Aemond's stupidity.

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Other than that, I can imagine him having all this as a strategy that would make the lords of the Trident side with the Greens (the neutral ones and the Black supporters as well), in the fear of being burned down with in their holdings. 

If he tried that, he never had any success, and his silly decision to confront his uncle at Harrenhal rather than actually raising an army and retaking KL makes it very unlikely he ever had such a plan. We are even given his strategy in what the sources give as his own words: That he is burning the Riverlands with the intention to take out Rhaenyra's dragonriders.

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

And Aemond wasn't useless either. He was a thing that had to be taken care of. We are supposed to believe that this is what the Blacks tought as well, since Daemon and Nettles went after him. Without them, the blacks didn't have enough dragons to face Vermithor, Silverwing and Tessarion on the head of the reachmen army. In this sense, Aemond did a good job in being a distraction, altough the whole thing required the treachery of Ulf and Hugh. 

It shows Rhaenyra's (and Daemon's) bad judgment that they thought that Aemond was a priority. He wasn't. He was no danger to them or their rule, and they should have taken care of him only after they had broken all meaningful resistance to their rule - which, at that point, was only the Hightower army.

Their first key mistake was actually allowing Hugh and Ulf to lead a campaign together rather than keeping one of them in the capital and putting the other under the command of Daemon.

Not to mention that it was also kind of stupid to not reward them properly for their service at the Gullet and during the taking of KL. They did make Rhaenyra queen, after all.

[Daeron the Daring]

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That seems like a weirdo misogynistic story, to be honest, concocted by folks who tried to explain (away) Aemond's stupidity.

I didn't say Aemond used his head properly. I pointed out how Alys Rivers, an aged woman, a rumoured witch, became the lover of Aemond right after he retook Harrenhall. I mean, we can answer everything with "George didn't think this trough, it's unrealistic" or "the character was so stupid to do this and not that", or we can look for possible reasons behind it. I didn't say that's what happened, I brought that up as a probability. I assume I am misogynistic for assuming a witch was capable to useher magic to influence someone, which is a somewhat confirmed thing anyway, only not in this shape. 

Edit: Of course Aemond was full of pride by then, being Prince Regent, considered himself king, etc... His common sense (the little he might have had) might have been beaten back by that position he got into as well. 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I didn't say Aemond used his head properly. I pointed out how Alys Rivers, an aged woman, a rumoured witch, became the lover of Aemond right after he retook Harrenhall. I mean, we can answer everything with "George didn't think this trough, it's unrealistic" or "the character was so stupid to do this and not that", or we can look for possible reasons behind it. I didn't say that's what happened, I brought that up as a probability. I assume I am misogynistic for assuming a witch was capable to useher magic to influence someone, which is a somewhat confirmed thing anyway, only not in this shape. 

At first Aemond parts ways with Alys Rivers only to take her with him after he returned to Harrenhal, burning it some more. Those aren't the actions of a man who is controlled by a woman.

Also, there are men who are into much older women, just as there are women who are into older men. Those things do happen.

I also see no reason why Alys should want Aemond to just terrorize the Riverlands and then throwing away his life when he could have kept his army ... or built an army in the Riverlands.

Even if Alys just used Aemond to produce a royal child which could claim the Iron Throne - which I believe she did - then it would have been much better for her if (1) Aemond had left her an army and a living Vhagar upon his death, (2) had publicly married her and acknowledged her child as his own, (3) had introduced her and her child to the Green court so the child may have become the presumptive heir of Aegon II.

[Daeron the Daring]

20 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

At first Aemond parts ways with Alys Rivers only to take her with him after he returned to Harrenhal, burning it some more. Those aren't the actions of a man who is controlled by a woman.

Also, there are men who are into much older women, just as there are women who are into older men. Those things do happen.

I also see no reason why Alys should want Aemond to just terrorize the Riverlands and then throwing away his life when he could have kept his army ... or built an army in the Riverlands.

You don't get my point. I said Alys might have influenced Aemond not to get away too far from her/Harrenhall. Which he never did, nevermind that he later had to get back for her. 

That Aemond was bewitched by Alys is something we should consider a fact. She could have still been charming/comely at that age as well, but the woman was a witch nonetheless, making it more likely that she had some sort of influence over him.

And don't think of Aemond facing Daemon a situation where Aemond decided to throw away his life. That could very well apply to Daemon, but not Aemond, who showed up only because (and only when) he tought he could take out Daemon. 

Other than that, Aemond leading an army wouldn't have benefited the Greens anymore. Not even Aemond considered Vhagar to be enough against two smaller, but still formidable dragons. That's why he never showed up for Nettles and Daemon. In case he would lead an army, the choices he could make are to flee or die there, once two dragonriders show up, making his presence meaningless anyhow things decide to be played out. 

If I was Aemond, I would've tried to catch other riders off guard (like Addam did). That would've made any sense. Leading an army or terrorizing the Riverlands would not, neither of them. 

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

That Aemond was bewitched by Alys is something we should consider a fact. She could have still been charming/comely at that age as well, but the woman was a witch nonetheless, making it more likely that she had some sort of influence over him.

So far we have no indication that women can actually bewitch men in this world. Stannis also seems to be bewitched by Melisandre, but this not, in fact, the case.

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

And don't think of Aemond facing Daemon a situation where Aemond decided to throw away his life. That could very well apply to Daemon, but not Aemond, who showed up only because (and only when) he toight he could take out Daemon. 

But he was stupid in actually agreeing to a silly dragon battle. Why not show up at Harrenhal with some men-at-arms and capture Daemon before he can mount his dragon? That's something Aemond could have done if he hadn't just be an obscure guy with a dragon in the wilderness at that point.

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Other than that, Aemond leading an army wouldn't have benefited the Greens anymore. Not even Aemond considered Vhagar to be enough against two smaller, but still formidable dragons. That's why he never showed up for Nettles and Daemon. In case he would lead an army, the choices he could make are to flee or die there, once two dragonriders show up, making his presence meaningless anyhow things decide to be played out. 

We see how folks thought they could do stuff with a dragon and an army with the Hightower and Addam Velaryon's Riverlander army. Just because you have more dragons doesn't mean you can use them effectively.

9 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

If I was Aemond, I would've tried to catch other riders off guard (like Addam did). That would've made any sense. Leading an army or terrorizing the Riverlands would not, neither of them. 

How stupid the guys during the Dance are can be drawn from the simple fact that George doesn't really has any of them do a sneak dragonrider attack. Both the Blacks and the Greens could have used their dragons to stage a sneak attack on the enemy stronghold in the beginning of the war. For the Blacks a success would have been guaranteed if they had flown across the Bay in the middle of the night to attack the Red Keep at first light. Most Green dragons would have been in the Dragonpit, after all.

A similar attack on Dragonstone could also have worked, although the risk that the dragonriders there would have reached the dragons very quickly would have been much higher. But then, the Green dragonriders would have known where exactly the dragon yards were, so they would have landed there, effectively cutting off Rhaenyra and her family from their own dragons.

[The Dragon Demands]

Hey, I put together an hour-long documentary video summarizing EVERYTHING from the England location shoots in September, outlining their schedule for October, and cross-referencing with the leaked list of directors by episode to try to develop a rough timeframe for what Season 1 covers:

Directors:

• Miguel Sapochnik - episodes 1, 6, 7
• Greg Yaitanes - episodes 2, 3, 10
• Clare Kilner - episodes 4, 5, 9
• Geeta Patel - episode 8

Director list was leaked with casting sheet for Laenor. Generally makes sense: episode 1 is so important they have Sapochnik do it, then directors filming 2 episode blocks back to back; Yaitanes for 2 and 3, Kilner for 4 and 5, and Sapochnik for 6 and 7.  But then episodes 8, 9, and 10 break that pattern, going Patel-Kilner-Yaitanes. Why is Patel only doing one episode? She's a documentary filmmaker. What's so special about episode 8 ?

Yaitanes was spotted filming the beach battle in the Stepstones, which would line up with episodes 2 and 3.

Kilner was spotted filming young Laenor and young Rhaenyra on a beach, with a clapper that said episode 5 on it. This also matches up.

While we've seen certain scenes in spy photos to try to parse out the timeline (filming Laena's funeral), they're now redundant with the first teaser trailer, which established that they're starting AT LEAST as early as the Tourney for the ascension of Viserys I (moved to Horn Hill? ) and as late as Aemond claiming Vhagar (trailer shows Alicent angry with the dagger, we've seen spy photos of Aemond on the beach of Driftmark) - also seems to be a spy photo of Aemma Arryn's funeral (which is after the tourney)

It's an open question whether we'll actually see the Great Council at Harrenhal on screen. No casting mention it yet.

The main question is of course when will season 1 end....with the death of Viserys I and outbreak of the Dance? Because that would mean skipping 10 years of internal time. It's possible that they're actually PADDING OUT the storyline so Season 2 covers the 120s AC, and the civil war only begins in late Season 2 (which I prefer). I possible hint at this is casting Vaemond Velaryon so prominently (perhaps setting up the Velaryon succession conflict as a major ongoing subplot in Season 2?)

We cross-referenced with descriptions for minor characters to determine that Laena & Laenor's double funeral is probably in episode 7.

Thus the rough outline for the season is beginning to look like this:

• Episode 1 (Sapochnik) - Harrenhal? / Tourney for the Ascension of Viserys I at Horn Hill
• Episodes 2 & 3 (Yaitanes) - War in the Stepstones, death of Aemma Arryn, remarriage to Alicent Hightower
• Episodes 4 & 5 (Kilner) - Young Rhaenyra & Young Laenor, Harwin, etc. / deepening court intrigues
• Episode 6 (Sapochnik) - wedding of Young Rhaenyra and Young Laenor
  • the transition between young Rhaenyra/Alicent and adult Rhaenyra/Alicent happens around episode 6 or so; which includes the very end of episode 5 or beginning of episode 7, depending on how they want to play it.
• Episode 7 (Sapochnik) - funeral of Laena and Laenor; Aemond claims Vhagar
• Episode 8 (Patel) - unknown
• Episode 9 (Kilner) - unknown
• Episode 10 (Yaitanes) - unknown

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

• Episode 1 (Sapochnik) - Harrenhal? / Tourney for the Ascension of Viserys I at Horn Hill
•  

Horn Hill? I thought that was at Maidenpool. 

On 10/11/2021 at 8:26 AM, Lord Varys said:

A similar attack on Dragonstone could also have worked, although the risk that the dragonriders there would have reached the dragons very quickly would have been much higher. But then, the Green dragonriders would have known where exactly the dragon yards were, so they would have landed there, effectively cutting off Rhaenyra and her family from their own dragons.

Wouldn't some of the dragons be housed in the Dragonmont? We don't know much about dragon bonds, but it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that they can at least call their dragons to where they are. Also, unless you called Daeron back from Oldtown, all it would take is one dragon and rider mounting up, and then the Schumer hits the fan. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

A thought just came to me about Rhaenyra and Criston.

I have long favored the theory that the two became enemies after Rhaenyra rejected him, because unfortunately that’s something that happens to women quite a bit. But then something occurred to me: what if Rhaenyra turned down Criston’s proposal. . . but not his love? Maybe Rhaenyra refused to give up her claim for him, but instead told him that they could remain lovers in secret, even that Criston might father her children. This is, after all, what Cersei and Jaime did—and what Rhaenyra and Harwin ultimately did. Only instead of agreeing to it, Criston was offended and infuriated, and felt like Rhaenyra was using him. This could be a way to make Criston a bit more sympathetic, because at this point he’s basically just a spurned suitor hellbent on destroying her life.

[Lord Varys]

11 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Wouldn't some of the dragons be housed in the Dragonmont? We don't know much about dragon bonds, but it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume that they can at least call their dragons to where they are. Also, unless you called Daeron back from Oldtown, all it would take is one dragon and rider mounting up, and then the Schumer hits the fan. 

The impression is that all the Black dragons but the wild dragons were houses in the dragon yards and dragon pits of the citadel of Dragonstone. The three wild dragons had their lairs on the Dragonmount.

But I actually forgot that the Greens only had Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar in KL when Viserys I died. They really stood no chance if the Blacks had attacked with their dragons.

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

A thought just came to me about Rhaenyra and Criston.

I have long favored the theory that the two became enemies after Rhaenyra rejected him, because unfortunately that’s something that happens to women quite a bit. But then something occurred to me: what if Rhaenyra turned down Criston’s proposal. . . but not his love? Maybe Rhaenyra refused to give up her claim for him, but instead told him that they could remain lovers in secret, even that Criston might father her children. This is, after all, what Cersei and Jaime did—and what Rhaenyra and Harwin ultimately did. Only instead of agreeing to it, Criston was offended and infuriated, and felt like Rhaenyra was using him. This could be a way to make Criston a bit more sympathetic, because at this point he’s basically just a spurned suitor hellbent on destroying her life.

Yes, of course, that is one of the scenarios. It is also possible they already had a romance going on prior to that, but never consummated the relationship. The version of Eustace claiming Criston wanted to her to run away with him and marry her indicates that he didn't just wanted to have an affair or secret relationship with her, but wanted her to be his wife.

And it seems clear that Rhaenyra was not willing to do that, even if she also loved Criston Cole. The Iron Throne was more important to her ... or her duty to her father and the dynasty.

That could, of course, also help to explain why Criston viewed Rhaenyra as slut after they had their falling-out - he could not cope with the fact that she wouldn't marry him but rather entertain lovers while marrying a man she clearly didn't love.

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

But I actually forgot that the Greens only had Sunfyre, Dreamfyre, and Vhagar in KL when Viserys I died. They really stood no chance if the Blacks had attacked with their dragons.

 

It probably would've only been Vhagar and Sunfyre, since Helaena's no warrior. 

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The impression is that all the Black dragons but the wild dragons were houses in the dragon yards and dragon pits of the citadel of Dragonstone. The three wild dragons had their lairs on the Dragonmount.

 

Forgot about that. One last thing....would the dragon yards be spread out across the complex or in one large place? 

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

It probably would've only been Vhagar and Sunfyre, since Helaena's no warrior.

 

Forgot about that. One last thing....would the dragon yards be spread out across the complex or in one large place? 

They counted Helaena as a dragonrider, so we have to assume she would have ridden to war prior to her breakdown.

No idea about the dragon yards. Those are just words from FaB, we have no idea how those places look like. They may be still there, so a POV might visit and describe them in future chapters.

[Jaenara Belarys]

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

They counted Helaena as a dragonrider, so we have to assume she would have ridden to war prior to her breakdown.

 

But with what we know of her nature and how Westeros views its women, it'd be hard to imagine Helaena conducting a battle in the skies. And plus, I've always interpretted Helaena as being a sort of reserve, or simply held back to defend KL. Or at least, that was the plan. 

[The Wolves]

I finally watched the trailer and question if anyone can help, but are there black Targaryens in the show?  

[The Bard of Banefort]

46 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

I finally watched the trailer and question if anyone can help, but are there black Targaryens in the show?  

Black Velaryons. We’re thinking that Corlys’ mother may have been a Summer Islander.

[Daeron the Daring]

On 10/11/2021 at 6:26 PM, Lord Varys said:

How stupid the guys during the Dance are can be drawn from the simple fact that George doesn't really has any of them do a sneak dragonrider attack. Both the Blacks and the Greens could have used their dragons to stage a sneak attack on the enemy stronghold in the beginning of the war. For the Blacks a success would have been guaranteed if they had flown across the Bay in the middle of the night to attack the Red Keep at first light. Most Green dragons would have been in the Dragonpit, after all.

From what I understand, if everyone is stupid, then noone is stupid. George had to kill the dragons and had to show how destructive the Dance was as well. He did that, we read that. I won't be aaying how stupid everyone was for not thoing this or that instead os something else. I would try to reasom why things happened the way they did. I said why in this comment. 

[The Dragon Demands]

19 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Horn Hill? I thought that was at Maidenpool.

Seems to have been moved to Horn Hill, based on the teaser trailer.