UK Politics: Bully for you

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

i disagree with HOI on almost everything, but the amount of people going to university that have no business going to university, and leaving with 50 grands worth of debt and no discernible skills is absurd.  

Well exactly, where the speaker at that conference is absolutely right is that far too many people are going to university for no real reason, only that we have now created the expectation that you need to go to university in order to succeed in life. So yes not only are young people putting themselves into debt unnecessarily, but they are taking themselves out of the labour market for years, starting their actual careers much later and also as a consequence getting to their mid 30s and only then starting to think about having kids, which for a lot of people is actually a bit late. 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Heartofice

[Ran]

The real reason that talking about free university education as a solution to declining birth rates doesn't make sense is that countries with free university education have in many cases fertility rates equally lower or worse than countries with no such programs. The countries with the lowest fertility rates in the EU -- Malta, Italy, and Spain -- all have free university education. Sweden's fertility rate is marginally lower than the U.S., and has free everything (all the way up to free post-graduate education!)

Education debt is doubtless a problem in certain countries (the US) but for the most part it seems to be true that the biggest thing stopping people from having children, even if they wanted it, is the cost of child care. If you are educated and want to work, having children puts a real crimp in your plans unless you can afford child care.

That said! Countries that have both generous education and generous child care (e.g. the Nordics) still have less-than-replacement-level fertility rates. The fact is that educated, well-to-do people mostly do not see the point in having large families any longer. This is perhaps a by-product on the emphasis of education and career having shifted values from an emphasis on forming and raising a family to achieving career success, as discussed here.

ETA: Free education has been for so very long "free university education", but it's clear that there has been some over-emphasis on university education to the detriment of vocational education, apprenticeships, etc. I think adjusting for that will be important for countries that have partaken in that over-emphasis.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Ran

[BigFatCoward]

I have one child in care 3 days a week, and it costs me £858 a month.  Its insane, my sister lives in Norway which for almost everything else is absurdly expensive, yet the childcare was about 1/4 as much. 

Even the 30 hours 'free' childcare is horseshit, the nursery gets about £4.50 per hour per child, which works out £400-450 per month, so we have to still top up the rest when he gets to 3.  When he leaves nursery, and my wife goes back to work full time i'm going to feel like a millionaire, i'll be in clubs like a gangster rapper buying Cristal and shit (but only until about 2230 at the latest). 

I don't understand why not for profit childcare is not top of the list of priorities for any government.  It would encourage more people to have kids (if that is their stated aim) and hugely increase tax revenues as far more people could work.  

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by BigFatCoward

[A Horse Named Stranger]

5 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I have one child in care 3 days a week, and it costs me £858 a month.  Its insane, my sister lives in Norway which for almost everything else is absurdly expensive, yet the childcare was about 1/4 as much. 

Even the 30 hours 'free' childcare is horseshit, the nursery gets about £4.50 per hour per child, which works out £400-450 per month, so we have to still top up the rest when he gets to 3.  When he leaves nursery, and my wife goes back to work full time i'm going to feel like a millionaire, i'll be in clubs like a gangster rapper buying Cristal and shit (but only until about 2230 at the latest). 

I don't understand why not for profit childcare is not top of the list of priorities for any government.  It would encourage more people to have kids (if that is their stated aim) and hugely increase tax revenues as far more people could work.  

 

 

No offense mate, but I think in 2230 you will be in the nursery (best case scenario). And to be able to afford that, you will probably be selling Crystal like a gangster rapper in his wildest songs.

[Heartofice]

13 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I have one child in care 3 days a week, and it costs me £858 a month.  Its insane, my sister lives in Norway which for almost everything else is absurdly expensive, yet the childcare was about 1/4 as much. 

Yeah I'm paying close to a grand a month for 4 days a week. It's insane. That's why I think childcare and housing are two huge issues in this country that there seems to be little effort to really deal with. 

There is also something to be said for the 'workism' cultural issue that Ran's paper mentioned  when it comes to low fertility levels. I suspect that the people having less kids are actually the more well off middle class families who prioritise 'career' until their mid 30s and then realise it's all been a bit of a lie and that they should have thought about having a family earlier.  I can't count the number of friends and acquaintances who would fit into that bucket, who would have loved to have a load of kids but left it too late because they thought there was something important about being a middle manager in a faceless company.