Why did Aerys choose Elia Martell as Rhaegar's wife ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

What are the reasons for which Aerys II may have chosen Elia Martell to marry Rhaegar, despite, or perhaps rather because of, his madness and his distaste for dornish, and paranoia toward his elder son ?

Could he have chosen partially just to spite Tywin further, perhaps knowing how Tywin spurned the Martells by saying that he intended to marry Cersei to Rhaegar and offered Tyrion instead ?

Did he do it to reinforce and secure Dorne's support ? Did he do it to deprive Rhaegar of à better and potentially more politically useful wife ?

[Curled Finger]

Dorne's always been a sensitive political situation for the crown.  However, given that Elia was rejected by the Lannisters, it really would be a slap in Tywin's face to choose her for Rhaegar over Cersei.  

It is telling that Aerys makes hateful comments about his grandchildren.  There does not seem to be any familial love here for them.  Could well be the decision was made to put Rhaegar in his place too.  Perhaps Aerys wasn't at all keen on all the prophecy Rhaegar wrapped himself in and deemed the children beneath the fulfillment of this prophecy?    

As for Elia herself, it is written she was no more than a political prisoner held hostage to Dorne's support during Robert's Rebellion.   He did not protect her or his grandchildren, but kept them precisely where the rebellion was bound to end.  He sure got his precious Viserys and even his best punching bag Rhaella out.  This guy was an absolute louse.  

[Castellan]

I had the impression Dorne had a small population, small wealth and wouldn't be able to raise much of an army. I just checked the wiki and found that GRRM has stated they would have a military strength similar to the North and the Vale, which is not huge but makes them a player and a useful ally.

So that makes them a respectable alliance if not a powerful one. But I suppose that's how Aerys thinks - don't ally yourself with someone who could steal your power. Look how much Cersei hates the alliance with the Tyrells with which Tywin saved the Lannisters' bacon. She has a similar mindset to Aerys. And if he was paranoid about Rhaegar, he certainly wouldn't give him a powerful set of in-laws.

 

 

 

[astarkchoice]

Simple process of elimination

Aerys may be paranoid but is aware of the growing stark, tully , baratheon, arryn alliance growing and needs to counter it.

The reach is with him

 

Steffon baratheons mission failed for a suitable valyrian bloodline bride in essos with powerful connections

The only other westeros vaylyrians are toonweak to ally with hoises  celtigsr and velyaryn

That  leaves those filthy ironborn = nope( seems no king or  greenlander lord wants anything to do with them)

Westerlands: aerys and tywins feud rules this out despite it making perfect sense! 

Thiis leaves dorne and for a king only a martell will do! 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by astarkchoice

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, Castellan said:

I had the impression Dorne had a small population, small wealth and wouldn't be able to raise much of an army. I just checked the wiki and found that GRRM has stated they would have a military strength similar to the North and the Vale, which is not huge but makes them a player and a useful ally.

So that makes them a respectable alliance if not a powerful one. But I suppose that's how Aerys thinks - don't ally yourself with someone who could steal your power. Look how much Cersei hates the alliance with the Tyrells with which Tywin saved the Lannisters' bacon. She has a similar mindset to Aerys. And if he was paranoid about Rhaegar, he certainly wouldn't give him a powerful set of in-laws.

 

 

 

I think that he’s changed his mind about the North and Vale being equal to Dorne in terms of numbers.

[Gilbert Green]

Aerys did not choose Elia.  Rhaegar did. 

Aerys, like Viserys after him, was a blood purist.  He wanted Rhaegar to marry someone of suitably noble status, and Valyrian heritage.

That was the point of Steffon Baratheon's mission.  To find someone suitable.  The failure of that mission gave Rhaegar options.

Aerys's "smells Dornish" remark about Rhaella is a pretty clear indication that Elia was not an ideal choice in his opinion.

I suppose, being king, Aerys must have consented, however reluctantly.   I guess various persons must have wore him down by explaining the political advantages of the union.

[Gilbert Green]

Rhaegar chose Elia because he suspected she was a by-blow of Aerys.   Rhaegar realized he was not Aerys' son, did not unite the lines of Aerys and Rhaella, and hence could not be TPTWP.   Elia's mother gave birth to Elia a "month early" after rushing home from King's Landing.  So she was likely a daughter of Aerys.  If a son of Rhaella married a daughter of Aerys, the wood's witch prophesy might be fulfilled.

This was an early formative sexual experience for Aerys, and culminated in his fetish for the wives of noblemen.

Disclaimer:  Most of the above is only theory.

[The Duck and the Field]

28 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

That was the point of Steffon Baratheon's mission.  To find someone suitable.  The failure of that mission gave Rhaegar options.

Not to derail the conversation, but that mission seems weird to me. It's such an odd task to give to one of the major lords of the realm. Was Lord Payne or Lord Estermont busy? I guess it could just be one of Aerys's whims that everyone went along with. Also, they "failed" in what way? Could they not find a single available Valyrian woman of high station in Essos. That seems unlikely, given that there's more than one major power that descends from the Valyrians. Whole thing seems kind of odd.

Edited June 12, 2023 by The Duck and the Field

[Gilbert Green]

4 minutes ago, The Duck and the Field said:

Not to derail the conversation, but that mission seems weird to me. Always wonder how anyone knew that they failed to find a match given that they drowned before making it back to Westeros.

I don't suppose ravens fly across the narrow sea, but letters can still be sent by boat.  I imagine a number of letters were sent about the various candidates before they gave up and returned home.

4 minutes ago, The Duck and the Field said:

Plus it's such an odd task to give to one of the major lords of the realm. Was Lord Payne or Lord Estermont busy?

I have no thoughts on who would be more suitable.  Aerys sent Steffon, and I'm fine with that.

4 minutes ago, The Duck and the Field said:

Also, they "failed" in what way? Could they not find a single available Valyrian woman of high station in Essos. That seems unlikely, given that there's more than one major power that descends from the Valyrians. Whole thing seems kind of odd.

I would imagine it is not just about descent from Valyrians, but about descent from Valyrian dragonlords.

[Hippocras]

5 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Rhaegar chose Elia because he suspected she was a by-blow of Aerys.   Rhaegar realized he was not Aerys' son, did not unite the lines of Aerys and Rhaella, and hence could not be TPTWP.   Elia's mother gave birth to Elia a "month early" after rushing home from King's Landing.  So she was likely a daughter of Aerys.  If a son of Rhaella married a daughter of Aerys, the wood's witch prophesy might be fulfilled.

This was an early formative sexual experience for Aerys, and culminated in his fetish for the wives of noblemen.

Disclaimer:  Most of the above is only theory.

I like it though.

To continue:

Dany is actually the bastard daughter of Aerys and Ashara, who, upon learning of various key deaths in Robert's Rebellion, faked her own death and brought her daughter to Dragonstone in secret. Meanwhile, queen Rhaella had another stillbirth and died herself. So, with Viserys too young to know the difference between a newborn and an older baby, they passed off Dany as Rhaella's daughter and sent both children away to Braavos.

Or...

Young Griff is actually the bastard son of Aerys and Ashara, same faked death but different destination. Ashara was in on Rhaegar's plans, but when he and his children died she knew her son had to survive. So she fled across the Narrow Sea with him, but could not stay with him as it would threaten his future. Dany is the child of Rhaella but not Aerys, and Young Griff is the child of Aerys but not Rhaella. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Hippocras

[Corvo the Crow]

To spite Tywin. Joanna and Princess Martell were friends and promised for a marriage between their kids, or so the Martell claims. Tywin rejected her, Aerys rejected Tywin. Tywin was for a long time king’s best friend so he definitely knows his dislike of Dornish. How better to spite him than marry your son to the girl he rejected for his son, especially when he knows you hate the guts of her people. I’d prefer the Dornish over you Tywin sends a real strong message.

[The hairy bear]

I think that a very significant factor is that, after the failure of Steffon's mission to find a Valyrian blood bride, Elia Martell was just the available candidate with the highest degree of Valyrian blood.

Blood has always been important for Targaryens. Nearly every single consort of a Targaryen heir presumptive has a full Tragaryen (when possible), or at least someone with Valyrian blood (when not). The only exceptions would be the ones brokered by the very unusual kings Baelor and Aegon V.

[X-Buster]

Elia was a good choice.  It builds relations with the Dornish.