Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: tell me why should I be sad if Euron Greyjoy sacks Sunspear in the next books? The Magyars slaughtered a load of people when they invaded HRE, would you be okay with the Bavarian state government now fire-bombing Budapest in response? Edited July 31, 2023 by Craving Peaches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: My name... tells you that I am a Dorne fan? My signature... suggests I am of the opinion that Wyl was a great guy? My user picture... shows how I support the Dornish atrocities? Do you realise how ridiculous what you are saying sounds? Why would he? His username (Aerys II) tells everything you have to know about him. We know that those filthy smelling Dornish bastards have intentionally lost the Trident as well. Without their treason, the dragon hatching experiment of Aerys II would have proceeded as planned. Edited July 31, 2023 by csuszka1948 sweetsunray, Ser Arthurs Dawn and SaffronLady 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said: We know that those filthy smelling Dornish bastards have intentionally lost the Trident as well. Without their treason, the dragon hatching experiment of Aerys II would have proceeded as planned. You're right of course. How could I forget that Elia also intentionally made herself unable to have any more children and then framed Rhaegar as running off with Lyanna, starting the whole war? Ser Arthurs Dawn and SaffronLady 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: There were no accounts of such brutality in Asoiaf history, maybe during the Rape of the three sisters, tell me why should I be sad if Euron Greyjoy sacks Sunspear in the next books? Nothing except valuing human life and/or not holding feudal subjects responsible for the actions of their overlords…your call, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: The Magyars slaughtered a load of people when they invaded HRE, would you be okay with the Bavarian state government now fire-bombing Budapest in response? Also, most of the atrocities that Aerys II listed are called atrocities because they were done to nobles, to highborn people. to well-standing knights. I obviously don't approve these acts, but I would call the actions of Tywin in general (drowning entire castle, sacking KL and killing children, gang-rape of Tysha, burning of the Riverlands) or the actions of Aegon in Dorne as bigger atrocities than any of those, even if those atrocities were inflicted on smallfolk (who 'don't matter' to history). Craving Peaches and James Arryn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Jon Cafferen gelded during his wedding. Lord Oakheart killed during the wedding of his daughter. Lady Oakheart gang-raped and sold to slavery. Captive knights tortured and horrifically mutilated. Harlan Tyrell disappeared near Hellolt. Rhaenys Targaryen tortured for two years. Lord Fowler captured the Carons and a female Caron became Lady of Nightsong, probably because her brothers died during the captivity. Entire households poisoned. There were no accounts of such brutality in Asoiaf history, maybe during the Rape of the three sisters, tell me why should I be sad if Euron Greyjoy sacks Sunspear in the next books? Nobody is telling you to feel anything about what happens in the next book. It just seems a tad silly to cast the entirety of Dorne in the same broad net as Wyl, the Vulture King, or Oberyn Martell. I suppose all of the entire North should be badly ashamed because the Winter Wolves did them some war crime shit a few times. That seems to be the standard you are trying to set here. Ser Arthurs Dawn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 Nimeria was an invader too, she did wars for power, but Nymeria is ok, Aegon is not, why? If the invader is a tyrant, so it is Nymeria, are there accounts of torture, slavery, rape during Nimerya wars? It seems the atrocities, made by dornishmen during the first dornish war, were unmatched in Asoiaf history Lord of Oldstones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, Nathan Stark said: That seems to be the standard you are trying to set here. Not a standard that applies to the Targaryens, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: Nimeria was an invader too, she did wars for power, but Nymeria is ok, Aegon is not, why? Nymeria was invited to Dorne, Aegon was not Nymeria was 'invading' to save her people from genocide, Aegon invaded because he could Nymeria was not doing wars for power Nymeria did not burn tens of thousands of innocents alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Not a standard that applies to the Targaryens, of course... Look, I don't care about Targaryens, my name is King Aerys II, but this doesn't mean I am a fan of this character, who is comparable to Ramsay Snow, but claims of Targaryen imperialism during Aegon Conquest are ridicolous, I don't think the Riverlands regret the domination of House Hoare, the ironborns used to steal women throughout Westeros, the abolition of the first night right, the law of thumbs, the law of six, the population that doubled during Jaehaerys reign, then Robert came and won the Throne by using his hammer and that is right, the dinasty ended after the Conquest of Robert, it is impossible to tell facts against Dorne, because the ultras of the kingdom start insulting Edited July 31, 2023 by KingAerys_II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, KingAerys_II said: because the ultras of the kingdom starts insulting What, is Dorne now a football club? Are you ignoring that virtually everyone has said that they don't think what Dorne did was okay either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Nymeria was invited to Dorne, Aegon was not Nymeria was 'invading' to save her people from genocide, Aegon invaded because he could Nymeria was not doing wars for power Nymeria did not burn tens of thousands of innocents alive Nymeria was so beloved she survived dozen of assassination attempts, she crowned Mors Martell prince of Dorne and started wars against the dornish kings, the wars lasted about 9 years, the excuse "Dorne invited Nymeria" is totally ridicolous, try another trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, KingAerys_II said: Nymeria was so beloved she survived dozen of assassination attempts Never said she was beloved, so...? 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: "Dorne invited Nymeria" Didn't say Dorne invited her, I said she was invited to Dorne (by Mors Martell). Difference. Please actually read what I wrote next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: Look, I don't care about Targaryens, my name is King Aerys II, but this doesn't mean I am a fan of this character, who is comparable to Ramsay Snow, but claims of Targaryen imperialism during Aegon Conquest are ridicolous, I don't think the Riverlands regret the domination of House Hoare, the ironborns used to steal women throughout Westeros, the abolition of the first night right, the law of thumbs, the law of six, the population that doubled during Jaehaerys reign, then Robert came and won the Throne by using his hammer and that is right, the dinasty ended after the Conquest of Robert, it is impossible to tell facts against Dorne, because the ultras of the kingdom start insulting Pointing out categorical evidence of imperial behaviour is not a ‘claim’. It’s self-evident and not even denied by the Targaryens, but rather explicitly announced to everyone via raven. Craving Peaches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Never said she was beloved, so...? Didn't say Dorne invited her, I said she was invited to Dorne (by Mors Martell). Difference. Please actually read what I wrote next time. The Martells offered an alliance to Aegon against Argillac, however this means nothing, and about the burnings, a dragon rider that uses his dragon, shocking, do you really think if Nymeria had dragons she wouldn't have used them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, James Arryn said: Pointing out categorical evidence of imperial behaviour is not a ‘claim’. It’s self-evident and not even denied by the Targaryens, but rather explicitly announced to everyone via raven. The same behavior of the Rhoynars that conquered Dorne, same concept of imperialism, but Nymeria is good, Aegon is not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: and about the burnings, a dragon rider that uses his dragon, shocking It is morally shocking that he would use it to burn loads of innocent people alive yes. Normal use in battle no one is shocked by. 2 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said: The same behavior of the Rhoynars that conquered Dorne, same concept of imperialism, but Nymeria is good, Aegon is not Not the same, people have already explained why but you just ignore and claim they are biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, KingAerys_II said: The same behavior of the Rhoynars that conquered Dorne, same concept of imperialism, but Nymeria is good, Aegon is not First, no, not the same. I think it’s arguable that conquest of any kind isn’t much distinct from imperialism in moral terms, but it’s still distinguishable in practice. Short, imperfect illustration: imperialist Nymeria would not have stopped at the Red Mountains, as Nymeria did. (And Aegon did not.) Second, when did I say Nymeria was good? Third, last time with feeling, invaders who start wars do not get to excuse their actions under the ‘sad realities of warfare’. At least not with any legitimacy. Craving Peaches 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: It is morally shocking that he would use it to burn loads of innocent people alive yes. Normal use in battle no one is shocked by. Not the same, people have already explained why but you just ignore and claim they are biased. His vassals complained the burnings were not enough, and the explaination of "why Nymeria was better" is not so clear, she killed people as well during her conquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, KingAerys_II said: His vassals complained the burnings were not enough So? We are a modern audience not medieval feudal vassals at war. Just now, KingAerys_II said: and the explaination of "why Nymeria was better" is not so clear It is plenty clear, the books themselves make it clear. 1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said: she killed people as well during her conquest She didn't go out of her way to burn civilians alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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