SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 7 hours ago, SaffronLady said: Doesn't that basically sum up Viserys' succession plans for Rhaenyra? "History remembers names, not blood", the man had also saith. So not necesarrily - I mean, he was a Black for most of the war. I mean sure? But that was just pushing it. And Corlys, who cares for legacy, will want his blood on the throne. Seeing Strong blood in the boys would make him livid. There's some problems with season 1 of HOTD (and Fire and Blood) and that is one of the many horrible story telling issues. 6 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said: Apparently he wasn't livid. It's absolutely baffling to me, but he seemed to be okay with his son being cuckolded. Nah that's just straight up eating the idiot pill for no reason. Lee-Sensei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: And Corlys, who cares for legacy, will want his blood on the throne. Seeing Strong blood in the boys would make him livid. Then maybe he should just cuckold his own son, cuz he also seems to tolerate Laenor's sexual preferences. Velaryon blood is Velaryon blood after all, no matter which Velaryon it comes from ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 56 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Then maybe he should just cuckold his own son, cuz he also seems to tolerate Laenor's sexual preferences. Velaryon blood is Velaryon blood after all, no matter which Velaryon it comes from ... He should’ve forced Laenor to copulate with Rhaenyra and allow him to watch to make sure it’s happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: He should’ve forced Laenor to copulate with Rhaenyra and allow him to watch to make sure it’s happening. IIRC there were mentions that Laenor did try, but failed to impregnate Rhaenyra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: IIRC there were mentions that Laenor did try, but failed to impregnate Rhaenyra. Plenty of gay monarchs were able to have kids. Laenor has no excuse. Plus I saw it as GRRM not being aware that gay men have been able to sire children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Plenty of gay monarchs were able to have kids. Laenor has no excuse. Plus I saw it as GRRM not being aware that gay men have been able to sire children. I mean yes, but Laenor might have been dead set to be among the unfortunate people who were born sterile on top of being gay, instead of GRRM not being aware some gay men could sire children. One of the reasons the Dance started in the first place was that everyone could see Rhaenyra's children were Strong bastards. It would be rather difficult to kick things off if Laenor actually could sire children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 26 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: I mean yes, but Laenor might have been dead set to be among the unfortunate people who were born sterile on top of being gay, instead of GRRM not being aware some gay men could sire children. One of the reasons the Dance started in the first place was that everyone could see Rhaenyra's children were Strong bastards. It would be rather difficult to kick things off if Laenor actually could sire children. ??? I mean Viserys could’ve forced Laenor to do something or break off the marriage. This level of stupidity is just straight up too unbelievable that it ruins the story. Also the whole plot line sounds like a cheap way of copying the Cersei/Jaime incest storyline. Kal-L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 24 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: I mean Viserys could’ve forced Laenor to do something Do what something? Keep trying and hope he gets a son who looks like himself? 25 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: break off the marriage Remind me why Viserys arranged a marriage between his daughter and Corlys' son again? Right, because Corlys is the richest man in Westeros, and the commander of its largest fleet. How do you think he would react to the marriage being broken? 27 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Also the whole plot line sounds like a cheap way of copying the Cersei/Jaime incest storyline. This I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Plenty of gay monarchs were able to have kids. Laenor has no excuse. Plus I saw it as GRRM not being aware that gay men have been able to sire children. Was that in the books too? I thought Laenor being unable to was just the show. It's been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthurs Dawn Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 20 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: Character's 'Catchphrases' get irritating after a while, especially on rereads. "I am only a young girl who knows...." blah blah blah. "You know nothing" is rich coming from someone who lacks basic knowledge such as what a castle looks like. "Something something fucking moonboy for all I know" and "Reek, Reek. It rhymes with [your choice of words that rhymes with Reek]." Psa, this one doesn't annoy me since it's Theon's desperate attempt to remember his new name. And I feel sorry for him. SaffronLady and Lee-Sensei 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 28 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Do what something? Keep trying and hope he gets a son who looks like himself? Remind me why Viserys arranged a marriage between his daughter and Corlys' son again? Right, because Corlys is the richest man in Westeros, and the commander of its largest fleet. How do you think he would react to the marriage being broken? This I agree. Yes? And of course Viserys would take the whole thing seriously since he can’t afford to piss of the Velaryons. And yeah, I don’t know what was in GRRM’s head when he came up with that storyline. 10 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said: Was that in the books too? I thought Laenor being unable to was just the show. It's been a while. I just saw that as GRRM not realizing that gay kings have managed to sire kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 8 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Yes? It's not working. In a sense, if Rhaenyra's kids weren't so ... Strong, the Dance could again have been avoided.  9 minutes ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: And of course Viserys would take the whole thing seriously since he can’t afford to piss of the Velaryons. I am also confused by Viserys doing so little to placate the Velaryons. Lee-Sensei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, SaffronLady said: It's not working. In a sense, if Rhaenyra's kids weren't so ... Strong, the Dance could again have been avoided.  I am also confused by Viserys doing so little to placate the Velaryons. Rhaenyra being the heir is enough to cause a conflict imo. That Strong storyline was completely unnecessary. Yeah George should’ve done better on that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csuszka1948 Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 3 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: ??? I mean Viserys could’ve forced Laenor to do something or break off the marriage. This level of stupidity is just straight up too unbelievable that it ruins the story.  Honestly, this is true for much of the Dance. Daemon is the only real character there, and GRRM favors him immensely (dies a cool death+all his kids survive) 3 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Also the whole plot line sounds like a cheap way of copying the Cersei/Jaime incest storyline.  I think that's intentional and GRRM will play out some of the Dance storyline in Winds just switching Rhaenyra to Cersei. Cersei's own 'Daemon' Jaime also abandoned her in the Riverlands with another woman, while she becomes more and more paranoid and turns the smallfolk against her rule, and at the end she will be forced to flee to her ancestral home (Casterly Rock instead of Dragonstone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Also, I am by no means an expert on human behaviour, but Barristan’s unending love for Ashara seems a bit odd to me. If he was going to have lasting memories of an unrequited love, wouldn’t it make more sense if it was someone from his youth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Also, I am by no means an expert on human behaviour, but Barristan’s unending love for Ashara seems a bit odd to me. If he was going to have lasting memories of an unrequited love, wouldn’t it make more sense if it was someone from his youth? Why do you think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odej Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: Also, I am by no means an expert on human behaviour, but Barristan’s unending love for Ashara seems a bit odd to me. If he was going to have lasting memories of an unrequited love, wouldn’t it make more sense if it was someone from his youth? Maybe he didn't have any great love on his youth. Barristan appears to be one of the that knights who live for their sword and it's more interesting for the story that he had fell in love for a woman when a relationship between them were nearly impossible. Add some tragedy to the already tragic story of Ashara Dayne. The only thing the bothers me it's not knowing how old was Ashara at the time. Her and her brother's age is something I really would like Martin reveals. Edited September 8, 2023 by Odej Lee-Sensei, Lady Dacey and Vante 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Odej said: Maybe he didn't have any great love on his youth. Barristan appears to be one of the that knights who live for their sword and it's more interesting for the story that he had fell in love for a woman when a relationship between them were nearly impossible. Add some tragedy to the already tragic story of Ashara Dayne. The only thing the bothers me it's not knowing how old was Ashara at the time. Her and her brother's age is something I really would like Martin reveals. My guess is that she was probably younger than Arthur Dayne. In my headcanon he was Rhaegar's age, so about 22 during the Tourney at Harrenhal. Knowing George, she was probably somewhere in her mid to late teens. Edited September 8, 2023 by Lee-Sensei Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 6 hours ago, csuszka1948 said: Honestly, this is true for much of the Dance. Daemon is the only real character there, and GRRM favors him immensely (dies a cool death+all his kids survive) I think that's intentional and GRRM will play out some of the Dance storyline in Winds just switching Rhaenyra to Cersei. Cersei's own 'Daemon' Jaime also abandoned her in the Riverlands with another woman, while she becomes more and more paranoid and turns the smallfolk against her rule, and at the end she will be forced to flee to her ancestral home (Casterly Rock instead of Dragonstone). Yeah I have no idea why George just wanted to copy and past shit. What good does it do for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said: Why do you think that? For the most part, young people tend to fall in love more easily than older people. Wasn't Barristan in his 40's during the Harrenhal tourney? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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