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Lady Dacey

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About Lady Dacey

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    Landed Knight

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    the third world

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  1. Good point. Lots of kissing involved in life and death situations in Martin's world. Very fairytalely... or not
  2. There is a lot of precedent for that in the series... Lady stoneheart was a "statue" brought to life by a kiss.
  3. Lady Dacey

    What’s under His many faces?

    I think this is a very, very, very important aspect of thinking religions many readers don't attent to. All those theories that connect all religions as one big thing... I don't think that's were Martin is going at all. Uh... I truly never attempted it. My point about R'hllor is not that he is a god of death, but that the Faceless Men see him as such. The difference between this two concepts is not subtle - I'm not trying to asses the "true nature" of any god at any moment, I'm constantly trying to anderstand how religious people interpret the world in-universe. And of course, in a world where magic is so palpable, that's a big deal. I don't think we can reconciled everything into one "unified theory of magic" or anything like that. I don't think "it's all made-up guff"... of course it's all made up, sure, and I don't think there is a one great truth (about gods and deities that is). But it's not guff either. I know the author is not religious, but he writes with great respect for it. There are a lot of things for us to think about... and some truths to be inferred about it all as well, I think. I absolutely agree with that - and it actually makes the world of ice and fire very similar to our own. Martin has stated that he incorporated religion into his writing because he could not imagine a world without it. It is a force with a lot of political a cultural influence, and it functions as motivation for many characters. It's more than that as well: It's a way to be connected to and (try to) manipulate a higher power men don't understand. This is undoubtedly true in asoiaf, where kisses bring people back to life, the future can be seen in the flames and in dreams (specially if one happens to sleep around weirwoods, it seems), and people can slip into the bodies of animals. Magic is real alright, and people that "yield it" have their special rituals to do so - and beliefs about those rituals. Are the rituals all that's necessary, or is believing in them important? Thoros wasn't particularly faithful when he brought Beric back to life, but the attributed his miracle to the red god nonetheless. Victarion thinks he can use the red god's prowess without forsaking his belief in the Drowned God at all. What does it all mean? Is religion irrelevant to magic? Is the way people worship irrelevant to the gods/God? Is it necessary for everyone else to be wrong for one belief to be right? Or do all religions simply represent culturally different ways for people to establish a relationship with 'the unknown' which includes death, magic, and god? Let's go back to the OP: are the Faceless Men pious? Are they true believers of their god, or is it all a smoke screen to a guild of assasins? I read them as true believers, but I'm swinging back and forth about being sympathetic to their cause. How do their beliefs influence our story? That's what I'm most interested in.
  4. I completely agree... I can't help it, I empathize with Arya too much. All through AGOT and ACOK she just reminds me so much of how I was at her age. And she's masterfully well written for a child. GRRM is really pulling all the tricks he has to make it believable. I just feel Arya's feelings and motivations are so much more layered and complex than Bran's (I mean to compare the writing style the author adopts in each POV, not the characters themselves).
  5. This is new to me. Who was a girl close to Lem who was violated?
  6. He sniffs her She pushes him and makes to run He grabs her harm and they fall to the ground together She tries to punch him and he laughs He tickles her She kicks him in the nuts "I bet I don't look so good now!!" And then the reactions from the brotherhood!! I absolutely love the accornhall scene. Arya is the most endearing character to me.
  7. I remember laughing out loud when I read this passage in the middle of a crowded subway station.
  8. when Gendry reveals to Arya he knows she's a girl anything with Dolorous Edd Tyrion-Bronn interactions Aurane Waters in the small council
  9. Lady Dacey

    Puns and Wordplay

    Is Martin familiar with Spanish language? I can't get over the Sansa/Sonsa/Zonza "pun". Zonza (Spanish) and sonsa (Portuguese) are adjectives with the same pronunciation and meaning, and could traditionally be translated as "silly" or "stupid". Controversely, the words have evolved since they first entered the iberic lexicon in the 17th century, and currently they are used to define people, usually females, who are deceivers, feigning apparent silliness to hide their true intentions under an aura of innocence. Every Brazilian reader I know describes Sansa as "sonsa". Even if it's unintentional, it works
  10. Lady Dacey

    What’s under His many faces?

    This is a personal obsession of our beloved author isn't it? How come do people do so much nasty stuff? Why does war seem to be so much more abundant than peace?
  11. Lady Dacey

    What’s under His many faces?

    I could see GRRM writting these two religions as foil to each other, as you eloquently put it. But I don't think they antagonize each other - because the FM antagonize no religion at all, and R'hllorism antagonizes all of them. Actually, we could come up with a list of differeces like that for many pair of religions presented in the books. I didn't understand what you tried to say with the Ned quote though...
  12. Lady Dacey

    What’s under His many faces?

    Har! I think R'hllor is more closely related to the MFG than the Great Other... Personally, I 100% agree with this. Oh I like that! Selling the soul? There is a lot of emphasis on what Arya has to give up to become a "servent of him of many faces". The faceless men have been associated with "deals" from the beggining of the books, first when Littlefinger talks about hiring them, but more importantly in Jaqen's interactions with Arya, which are full of mysticism and related to 'tricky bussiness' by Arya herself. We know Arya wants to be able to change her face. She says as much to the Kindly Man. He tells her there is a price. Is she being tricked into a deal - selling her soul, so to speak?
  13. Lady Dacey

    What’s under His many faces?

    Oh my, I was rereading the thread and I realized I didn't register a lot of great stuff people shared here! These are some great questions. We know everyone in the temple is refered to as a "servent of the MFG", and that there are novices and acolytes, which are two different stages of training... to become a faceless man? Not sure. The two people Arya calls the Waif and the Kindly Man are residents of the temple, together with "long with three acolytes, two serving men, and a cook called Umma." I always wonder about Umma, what is she doing there?? She has a name, therefore she definetely isn't trying to become 'no-one'. These two serving men, are they in the initial stages of training, like Arya (who get's a servents garb) before she becomes a novice? It's funny that this takes place in Arya II, AFFC. Many months later, in Blind Girl, ADWD, we get: "Besides her, the House of Black and White was home to two serving men, three acolytes, Umma the cook, and the two priests that she called the waif and the kindly man." so no changes there. None of the people who lived there got "promoted". The Kindly Man and the Waif are both priests: "There were no services, no songs, no paeans of praise to please the god. The temple was never full. From time to time, a worshiper would ask to see a priest, and the kindly man or the waif would take him down into the sanctum, but that did not happen often." All the men that come and go with different faces are called priests too: "The priests used the language of Braavos, though once for several minutes three spoke heatedly in High Valyrian. The girl understood the words, mostly, but they spoke in soft voices, and she could not always hear. "I know this man," she did hear a priest with the face of a plague victim say. "I know this man," the fat fellow echoed, as she was pouring for him. But the handsome man said, "I will give this man the gift, I know him not." Later the squinter said the same thing, of someone else." I like the idea of the worship of the MFG being related to an end to ressurection. I'm sure they aren't cool with the whole "bringing people back from death" idea. It would be a good point in our story. About ice and fire... Absence or the sum? I'd go with absence. I don't think everything in the books can be described in a "ice-to-fire scale", for I believe there are other elements at play. But I agree that death is pretty neuthral. It's the greatest equalizer of men, right? Great stuff here. What has caused the upsurge in magic/dragons coming back/others becoming apparent is one of the central questions of the books and I do hope we get some answers on page! Thematically the FM represent a great inflexion in Arya's arc. Their way of seeing things is diametically opposite to all westerosi nobles think is 'honourable'. We see Arya judging the people she feels entitled to kill (the Tickler, Dareon, the merchant whose hands move to much), and we see her feel bad for the people that died at her hands without a 'just sentance' (the stable boy, the lannister squire that was together with the Tickler and Polliver). The more I think about the FM, the more I realize how little we know about them... But we do know they believe that those who are instruments of the MFG should be only that: instruments. The point is not "forgetting who deserves the sentence" because (1) it's not the instrument's concern to judge, only to act and (2) death is not a punishment, it has nothing to do with what one deserves otherwise the just would live forever. That is why I called them the "House of Orange and Blue", we are much more prone to feel aligned with Ned Stark than with the FM. Arya doesn't agree with them either, and that's why we are all eagerly waiting to see how she'll leave the HoBaW!
  14. Lady Dacey

    What if Ned never met up with Lyanna

    *virtual hug*
  15. Lady Dacey

    Sorcerers and Swords

    I don't really understand swords at all, and I haven't read any of the novellas, so I'm not rellay qualified to talk about Darksister. I learned a lot with your OP though - thanks for that! It's very well written and organized One thing a know for certain though... I'm pretty sure Arya qualifies as a "sorcerer" in the same way Lord Bloodraven did. I mean she is a warg and a capable skinchanger, she's very connecetd to the Old Gods and she is very knowledgeable - she understands poisons, speaks many languages and she can pull mummery tricks. Those are her current skills, and she might yet learn to work glamours and even how to change her face FM-style. I can't see another character in the books that has that many "magical qualities". What does it take for a person to be called a sorcerer in Westeros, circa 300 A.C.? In fact she's such a good candidate for the sword I think GRRM might not give it to her just to mess with us.