Aussies & NZ: You're the Voice Try and Understand It

[Skyrazer]

Honestly, I can't wait for the vote to be done with and the thing settled. The amount of vitriol and bullshit being flung around over the Voice has just been nauseating.

From the moment it was announced, I knew skeletons would start pouring out of the closet. I can't help but stand back, watch it all happen and think "FFS we need to grow the fuck up!"

[Jeor]

14 hours ago, Skyrazer said:

Honestly, I can't wait for the vote to be done with and the thing settled. The amount of vitriol and bullshit being flung around over the Voice has just been nauseating.

From the moment it was announced, I knew skeletons would start pouring out of the closet. I can't help but stand back, watch it all happen and think "FFS we need to grow the fuck up!"

I agree, I hope it all settles down quickly. People aren't likely to be surprised if the result is No, and it might start looking like a foregone conclusion, which may lower the stakes a bit and keep it lower-key.

[Paxter]

Much like during the same-sex marriage "postal survey", Australia is not really grown up enough to have a civilized debate that doesn't involve the marginalized group in question feeling even more hurt.

The whole debate is as grubby and embarrassing as our Opposition Leader.

Edited September 16 by Paxter

[Jeor]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:47 AM, Paxter said:

Much like during the same-sex marriage "postal survey", Australia is not really grown up enough to have a civilized debate that doesn't involve the marginalized group in question feeling even more hurt.

The whole debate is as grubby and embarrassing as our Opposition Leader.

It's one of the issues with referendums, I guess. Constitutional recognition couldn't happen any other way, but a Voice could have been legislated and I doubt anyone would have been particularly surprised if Albanese had done that. Labor won the election, they were very clear about having a Voice as part of their platform, so it would have been a relatively simple matter of legislating one. Now unfortunately it looks like they aimed too high for what the Australian public are ready for.

It's a bit like tax reform in that what's good for the country is not necessarily appreciated by the Australian population as a whole. So a government will hope to win an election in spite of it and implement it, then hope that after it happens people will realise it's not that bad. BTW I realise this is a higher order issue than tax reform, so the analogy isn't meant to be 100%...but it's the signature dilemma of government - popular policies aren't necessarily good ones and vice versa.

[The Anti-Targ]

17 hours ago, Jeor said:

It's a bit like tax reform in that what's good for the country is not necessarily appreciated by the Australian population as a whole. So a government will hope to win an election in spite of it and implement it, then hope that after it happens people will realise it's not that bad. BTW I realise this is a higher order issue than tax reform, so the analogy isn't meant to be 100%...but it's the signature dilemma of government - popular policies aren't necessarily good ones and vice versa.

NZ labour has tried that a few times with a capital gains tax, and always lost the election. Whether it was because of bad timing, that they were always going to lose that particular election, or if the electorate generally is so opposed that any party proposing CGT would lose I'm not sure. Certainly a lot of tax experts think lack of a CGT it a significant hole in out tax system.

[Paxter]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:00 AM, Jeor said:

It's one of the issues with referendums, I guess.

Not necessarily. We didn't have this issue in 1967. The Opposition was on board and it sailed through.