Most stupid things Lannisters, other than Cersei and Joffrey, ever did ?

[Odej]

19 minutes ago, sifth said:

Fair point. If truth be told, the first book has a lot of weird things that don't match up with the rest of the series; we can add Tyrion never thinking about Cersei and Jamie's relationship as another one of those.

I think since by the time Martin wrote the first book his intention was to write a trilogy and only when he was writing ACOK he realised the story was going to get more complex, those flaws are kind of understandable.

The whole Daenerys/Viserys/Aegon/Varys&Illyrio's thing is another of them.

Edited September 17, 2023 by Odej

[Lee-Sensei]

3 hours ago, sifth said:

Fair point. If truth be told, the first book has a lot of weird things that don't match up with the rest of the series; we can add Tyrion never thinking about Cersei and Jamie's relationship as another one of those.

Yeah. It could just be a bit of early installment weirdness. George didn't have things figured out as much early on.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

Joffrey was young and spoiled.  He wasn't a bright candle but he was not as stupid as his parents, Jaime and Cersei.  It was poor decision to let the Faith rearm.  You can exclude Cersei if you want.  Jaime has his own manner of stupidity.  

Edited September 18, 2023 by Aline de Gavrillac

[Nevets]

On the issue of whether Tyrion knew about the incest, there is this exchange at the end of Tyrion's first chapter, still at Winterfell.

"I hope the boy does wake.  I would be most interested to hear what he might have to say".  

His brother's smile curdled like sour milk.  "Tyrion, my sweet brother," he said darkly, "there are times you give me cause to wonder whose side you are on."

Tyrion grinned up wolfishly at Jaime.  "Why, Jaime, my sweet brother,"  he said, " you wound me.  You know how much I love my family".

I've always assumed that Tyrion knew and that Jaime knew he knew.  And that Tyrion is being snarky and difficult in this scene.  Of course we also know he doesn't care much for most of his family, Jaime possibly excepted.

[Alester Florent]

14 hours ago, Nevets said:

I've always assumed that Tyrion knew and that Jaime knew he knew.  And that Tyrion is being snarky and difficult in this scene.  Of course we also know he doesn't care much for most of his family, Jaime possibly excepted.

He very much cares about Jaime, I think. He seems to get on with Kevan and doesn't have any issue we know of, I think, with Tygett or Gerion or their children, or with Genna. And even Tywin, I think on some level he just wanted his father's approval until events in ASoS made it clear that wouldn't happen. Nor does he express any real malice towards Tommen and Cersei, and as much as he might despise Joffrey he never attempts to harm him directly.

It's only really Cersei he has a lifelong grievance with, at least at the point the series starts.

[Dofs]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:35 PM, Lee-Sensei said:

That's beside the point. I already acknowledged that you're probably right about him already knowing. My point was that when Tyrion thinks that Cersei should have had one of Robert's to give her a bit of cover, it's weird that he didn't think to himself about the time that he suggested it.

I think it's also worth remembering that before he was appointed as Hand, Tyrion was more busy drinking, whoring, exploring, reading, enjoying his life essentially than thinking about politics. So while from one hand what you said is true and it is a bit weird he doesn't think back on this, on the other hand I can see Tyrion not really bothering himself that much about the implications of incest before the book series began when it started to actually be a big deal. So even if he did suggest something like that to Jaime (and that's an "if") , it might not have been some serious conversation worth remembering. That conversation might have happened even when Tyrion was in his teens - not a serious memory to recall.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Dofs

[Lee-Sensei]

30 minutes ago, Dofs said:

I think it's also worth remembering that before he was appointed as Hand, Tyrion was more busy drinking, whoring, exploring, reading, enjoying his life essentially than thinking about politics. So while from one hand what you said is true and it is a bit weird he doesn't think back on this, on the other hand I can see Tyrion not really bothering himself that much about the implications of incest before the book series began when it started to actually be a big deal. So even if he did suggest something like that to Jaime (and that's an "if") , it might not have been some serious conversation worth remembering. That conversation might have happened even when Tyrion was in his teens - not a serious memory to recall.

Having read his chapters, I think that his thought process would have naturally been to consider the consequences of them being found out. What they did was punishable by death. For Jaime's sake at the very least, I imagine that he'd have thought about it and brought it up. As Cersei points out in her chapters, there were eyes and ears all over the Red Keep. If anything, they were lucky that they weren't found out very early on (or rather, George needed their affair to be a well kept secret until AGOT).

Edited September 25, 2023 by Lee-Sensei