maesternewton Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 A marriage between a Martell and a Targaryen, specifically one that involved Daeron himself at the least, would have completed the Conquest of Dorne and most likely stopped uprisings by the Dornish. It's honestly odd that it wasn't even tried, since it's playbook that most Kingdoms followed before the Conquest. Marrying their defeated vassals to cement the relationship. Quote Whatever the truth, the last man to be called Marsh King was killed by King Rickard Stark (sometimes called the Laughing Wolf in the North, for his good nature), who took the man’s daughter to wife, whereupon the crannogmen bent their knees and accepted the dominion of Winterfell. In the centuries since, the crannogmen have become stout allies of the Starks, under the leadership of the Reeds of Greywater Watch. The World of Ice & Fire, The North: House Stark. The Starks did it during their Conquest of the North. Quote With the unification of the realm and the establishment of the boy Ronnel Arryn (the King Who Flew) as the first Lord of the Eyrie, there were new opportunities for the house. It was no great surprise when Queen Rhaenys Targaryen arranged the betrothal of young Ronnel to the daughter of Torrhen Stark, for that was but one of the many such marriages she made in the name of peace. The World of Ice & Fire, The Vale: House Arryn. The Targaryen Queens did it after they conquered the realm. It's very suprising that Daeron I didn't attempt to do so after conquering Dorne, all he did was take hostages and left Lyonel Tyrell in charge as if Dorne was some colony. Then the is Daeron II who also didn't try it, which could have stopped the Blackfyre rebellions. Daeron I should have married a Martell right after the the Dornish nobles submitted and Daeron II should have negotiated marriages between Reach and Marcher nobles with Dornish ones to knit the realm together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Daeron I was, IMO, like Sweden's Charles XII -- just enamored with war and just entirely uninterested in marriage when he had glory to pursue. On our game, Blood of Dragons MUSH (approved by GRRM), we did actually have rumors that Daeron had started to consider marrying the Prince of Dorne's daughter for all the reasons you state, but then he met the wrong group of Dornishmen at the wrong parley, and the rest is history. maesternewton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ran said: Daeron I was, IMO, like Sweden's Charles XII -- just enamored with war and just entirely uninterested in marriage when he had glory to pursue. On our game, Blood of Dragons MUSH (approved by GRRM), we did actually have rumors that Daeron had started to consider marrying the Prince of Dorne's daughter for all the reasons you state, but then he met the wrong group of Dornishmen at the wrong parley, and the rest is history. Yea, but why didn't Aegon the Conqueror try it, by trying to create a marriage pact, between one of his sons and a member of House Martel? Edited September 8, 2023 by sifth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, sifth said: Yea, but why didn't Aegon the Conqueror try it, by trying to create a marriage pact, between one of his sons and a member of House Martel? He seemed pretty intent on maintaining the Valyrian purity, given that Aenys was married to a Velaryon. Frey family reunion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 1 hour ago, maesternewton said: Daeron I should have married a Martell right after the the Dornish nobles submitted and Daeron II should have negotiated marriages between Reach and Marcher nobles with Dornish ones to knit the realm together. It doesn't always work: cfr. Blackwoods and Brackens. They intermarried often and regularly to promote peace, and thus basically are close families in blood. Some Brackens may be closer to Blackwoods than some of the Blackwood cousins have been at times, I'm sure. Nevertheless hostilities resume regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 A royal marriage between the Targs and the Martells does not automatically cancel out all the bad blood between the Marcher Lords and the Dornish. It might even antagonize the Marcher Lords against the crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 Correct, and the text I think says as much, GRRM wants us to believe this and wants it established as fact in world. The why of it is because Jon like the Young Dragon he idiolised is going to go south and conquer, but being a Daeron fan Jon will recall his histories (or someone will tell him if he doesn't) and know that he must consolidate his conquest with a marriage pact lest it all fall apart, and this is how we will get the pact of Ice and Fire as Jon will force a marriage onto princess of the north Arya to the crown, and Arya will have to decide to either run away and be no-one or do her duty and become queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Stag Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 4 hours ago, SaffronLady said: A royal marriage between the Targs and the Martells does not automatically cancel out all the bad blood between the Marcher Lords and the Dornish. It might even antagonize the Marcher Lords against the crown. Agreed, this was likely in part what caused the Blackfyre rebellion - Reach involvement included House Peake, and bad blood between the Marcher Lords and Dorne was certainly a major reason for the marriage between Jena Dondarrion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maesternewton Posted September 28, 2023 Author Share Posted September 28, 2023 On 9/9/2023 at 3:10 PM, Green Stag said: Agreed, this was likely in part what caused the Blackfyre rebellion - Reach involvement included House Peake, and bad blood between the Marcher Lords and Dorne was certainly a major reason for the marriage between Jena Dondarrion Yeah, which is why when Daeron II was going to marry Mariah Martell, he should have arranged marriages also between the Marcher lords and Reach lords with Dornish lords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, maesternewton said: Yeah, which is why when Daeron II was going to marry Mariah Martell, he should have arranged marriages also between the Marcher lords and Reach lords with Dornish lords. Undoubtably they would have refused these matches. Edited September 28, 2023 by Frey family reunion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) On 9/8/2023 at 5:04 PM, Ran said: He seemed pretty intent on maintaining the Valyrian purity, given that Aenys was married to a Velaryon. And not just any Velaryon but a first cousin. I assume there was a real concern that if they started diluting their bloodlines too much they would lose their connection with their dragons. ETA: sorry, cousin not first cousin. Edited September 28, 2023 by Frey family reunion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Stag Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 10 hours ago, maesternewton said: Yeah, which is why when Daeron II was going to marry Mariah Martell, he should have arranged marriages also between the Marcher lords and Reach lords with Dornish lords. Baelor arranged for the marriage when Daeron was only a boy, it appears the marriage was to bring peace, not for Daeron to necessarily become King and unite with Dorne. After Aegon the Unworthy became King and Daeron his heir he was either busy with his mistresses or otherwise messing things up to create any marriages between the Marcher Lords and Dorne that might promote any peace. When Daeron first became King, he was likely busy cleaning up his father's messes for a while; I'm certain that Daeron would have tried to new marriage alliances, to include Dornish Lords with the Reach and Stormlands, given some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAerys_II Posted September 29, 2023 Share Posted September 29, 2023 (edited) I don't think Aegon could have done some marriage pact after the Dornish uprising, the knights, that led entire garrisons murdered, were slowly torture to death, then there was the Alys Oakheart thing, the dornish marches lords wanted revenge, one of them wanted Aegon to sell Deria to the brothels. Orys Baratheon and the Reach thought the Vulture Hunt was the right occasion for revenge Edited September 29, 2023 by KingAerys_II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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