Kalbear Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Ah, okay. My apologies for misremembering. I guess I don't disagree with a number of the characters and their viewpoints, though I think part of their personality being grating is intentional. Especially both Lae'zel and Shadowheart - Shadowheart is supposed to be a brainwashed cultist who had her real life stolen from her, so her acting this way makes sense and is part of the beats of her story. Lae'zel is similarly inclined, and you can make massive changes to her viewpoints because of it. Both are supposed to be a bit weird and alien, and you're kind of supposed to feel a bit alienated, IMO. Astarion is supposed to be, well, kind of evil and represents a more interesting and entertaining evil than the previous BG characters in your party - to the point that he can be part of a good campaign if you want him to. But also I hated his ass from the start and it took my wife and my daughter to convince me to let him live after he threatens to kill you. It's worth it - his story beats are pretty awesome, and he has some great scenes - but again, him alienating people is kind of his deal. As to the emperor and that whole storyline - I really love that he is this sociopath and you can discover this - or you can go along with it and be a total freak! Having the person helping you from the start being a Secret Evil Thing is a pretty big deal for D&D campaigns. Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II and IlyaP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 6 hours ago, Ran said: Kind of now makes me wonder which ending @Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II got... Everyone lives, we cure our minds of the infection (so the game dosent feel pointless unlike umm…some other game), karlach and Wyll go to avernus and probably hook up. The city is saved, the dead three and the mindflayers are defeated, Orpheus turns into a mindflayer but I also let him live, Lazael goes off to fight for her people. All origin characters get positive endings where they improve as people, I overcome and defeat my dark urge and live happily ever after with Shadow Heart. Oh and we all have a nice get together party 6 months after the final fight. I don’t mind working hard to get a satisfying ending as long as the game gives me atleast one path for it ,amidst all the shit endings.To quote Paul Atriedes-“ I see so many possibilities where our enemies prevail, but there is one, narrow way forward….” I guess the only character I screwed up with was Wyll as I eternally bound his soul to Mizora in exchange for letting his father live. (Which I later found out was unnecessary) but I like Mizora so I’m okay with it lol. Poobah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 2 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: I guess the only character I screwed up with was Wyll as I eternally bound his soul to Mizora in exchange for letting his father live. (Which I later found out was unnecessary) but I like Mizora so I’m okay with it lol. The Iron Throne undersea base is where you need to go - I found it by accident after finding crying umberlee fanatics by accident after finding and blowing up the foundry by accident because Act 3 is chaotic randomness personified. But if you save him - and Omirlee (sp?) the illithid that hangs out with the spores in the underdark, you render the contract with Miroza null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 27 minutes ago, IlyaP said: The Iron Throne undersea base is where you need to go - I found it by accident after finding crying umberlee fanatics by accident after finding and blowing up the foundry by accident because Act 3 is chaotic randomness personified. But if you save him - and Omirlee (sp?) the illithid that hangs out with the spores in the underdark, you render the contract with Miroza null and void. I did that but he had already agreed to be bound eternally to Mizora before that mission so it dosent change that outcome. Basically if you don’t agree to the pact Mizora comes to the iron throne and makes it more difficult to rescue the duke. Since my Wyll had agreed to the pact she came and actually helped me rescue the duke. The game (and Mizora) actually mislead us into signing Wylls soul away by saying the duke will die if he dosent but you can still save the duke and not sign away Wyll. Oh well. Atleast I got to bang Mizora. I didn’t find Gale to be an egomaniac though - if anything he’s a bit too nice. Not sure where your getting that vibe from ? He tried to get the Weave orb for his gf Goddess basically, rather than himself. There is some temptation to use the crown in the end but any of us would be tempted by that kind of poetry I’d think… Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 44 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: I didn’t find Gale to be an egomaniac though - if anything he’s a bit too nice. Not sure where your getting that vibe from ? He tried to get the Weave orb for his gf Goddess basically, rather than himself. There is some temptation to use the crown in the end but any of us would be tempted by that kind of poetry I’d think… The backstory of what he was trying to do with the magic that ultimately backfired on him, and then later on, when he finds out more information on Karsus in the vault in Lorroakan's vault, his greediness comes to the fore again, and it's like "brotha, did you learn nothing between when I pulled your arse out of a stone and now?" (If you pay attention to the nuances in his dialogue, with him talking about wanting to become a god, etc., and all the hubris comes back out that was alluded to as being his downfall prior to the start of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: Ah, okay. My apologies for misremembering. All good. Not sure who found issue with the voice acting. Like, the acting is, across the board, fantastic. 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: I guess I don't disagree with a number of the characters and their viewpoints, though I think part of their personality being grating is intentional. Especially both Lae'zel and Shadowheart - Shadowheart is supposed to be a brainwashed cultist who had her real life stolen from her, so her acting this way makes sense and is part of the beats of her story. Lae'zel is similarly inclined, and you can make massive changes to her viewpoints because of it. Both are supposed to be a bit weird and alien, and you're kind of supposed to feel a bit alienated, IMO. I don't disagree, it's just a question of personal taste. I didn't find their characters to be interesting or memorable the way I did Morte, Eder, Varric, Anomen, Yoshimo, Boots, Hawke, Morrigan, Amiri, HK-47, or Kreia, to name a few from just a few cRPGs that I've played over the years. Again, this is not to cast aspersions at them - I know many a player has connected with some of the cast, and that's absolutely fine. I personally found them wanting, and that's 100% a me thing. 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: Astarion is supposed to be, well, kind of evil and represents a more interesting and entertaining evil than the previous BG characters in your party - to the point that he can be part of a good campaign if you want him to. But also I hated his ass from the start and it took my wife and my daughter to convince me to let him live after he threatens to kill you. It's worth it - his story beats are pretty awesome, and he has some great scenes - but again, him alienating people is kind of his deal. I did do his story beats (I went and did all the companion quests, as I'm a completionist by nature), and found it all just so meh. "Can a truly vile, evil person who's damned hundreds of people find redemption and still be allowed to live and not face any kind of legal justice for his actions?!" Uh... 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: As to the emperor and that whole storyline - I really love that he is this sociopath and you can discover this - or you can go along with it and be a total freak! Having the person helping you from the start being a Secret Evil Thing is a pretty big deal for D&D campaigns. I initially thought he might have had some redeeming or interesting qualities as well, having previously been (essentially) a spymaster. Instead, he just turned out to be a petty berk. Alas. 3 hours ago, Kalbear said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 49 minutes ago, IlyaP said: All good. Not sure who found issue with the voice acting. Like, the acting is, across the board, fantastic. I don't disagree, it's just a question of personal taste. I didn't find their characters to be interesting or memorable the way I did Morte, Eder, Varric, Anomen, Yoshimo, Boots, Hawke, Morrigan, Amiri, HK-47, or Kreia, to name a few from just a few cRPGs that I've played over the years. Again, this is not to cast aspersions at them - I know many a player has connected with some of the cast, and that's absolutely fine. I personally found them wanting, and that's 100% a me thing. I did do his story beats (I went and did all the companion quests, as I'm a completionist by nature), and found it all just so meh. "Can a truly vile, evil person who's damned hundreds of people find redemption and still be allowed to live and not face any kind of legal justice for his actions?!" Uh... I initially thought he might have had some redeeming or interesting qualities as well, having previously been (essentially) a spymaster. Instead, he just turned out to be a petty berk. Alas. Not to mention the fact that the emperor was previously mind controlling his partner Duke Stelmaine. He’s also the founder of Baldurs gate - Baldurian who again killed his bestie dragon when the dragon told him he’s becoming a sociopath and must end himself. The MF influence had changed him completely. This scene really highlights his true colors. Kinda reminds me of the Reaper Indoctrination. My boy Omeluum is the only good MF in the game ! (Other than whoever turns into one in the end ) Really liked the payoff with breaking Yugirs contract - I spent a ton of time on YouTube guides and reloads to get that outcome and was really glad it paid off. Wish I had kept the shapeshifter cow alive though, another ally in the final fight apparently. Zevlor also had a nice arc. Same with Barcus. A random gnome you save from a windmill had such an epic storyline. That’s the best parts of this game. Edit: I just realised that in my epilogue Minsk has prison clothes and the Zhentarrim are now peacekeepers in the city ? Even though I sided with the guild ,had nine fingers help me in the final fight and destroyed all the Zhent……This is the second game breaking bug with these guys, why are the Zhentarrim so fucking buggy in this game!?!? Other than that everything else is correct in the epilogue. Also was Ninefingers a homage/reference to the First Law Trilogy ? Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 And just wait till you try to try to play 5th edition after playing BG3... Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Do you guys feel they should’ve given the companions set sexual preferences in terms of race and gender to fleshen them more like CP2077 or you prefer them being protagasexual? In the vanilla game I think only Astarion rejects you if you become a mindflayer. I do wish they had the mechanic of companions romancing each other if they player didn’t pursue them, would’ve been so cool. Fire Emblem Awakening does this beautifully where you can even get them to have different kids based on the combo. Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Only if it actually had actual consequences to and benefits from relationships and actually affected things in-game, from a narrative and role-playing perspective. Which at the moment, obviously, it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Kinda reminds me of the Reaper Indoctrination. And being unable to highlight this to him at any point during the game? A missed opportunity for some interesting character reflection and increased RP options. 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Really liked the payoff with breaking Yugirs contract - I spent a ton of time on YouTube guides and reloads to get that outcome and was really glad it paid off. You can avoid battling him by just convincing him to kill himself. It's how I avoided what by all accounts was a tedious, unbalanced, and egregiously long fight. 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Wish I had kept the shapeshifter cow alive though, another ally in the final fight apparently. You monster! ALL HE WANTED WAS SOME GOOD GRASS TO CHEW ON. 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Zevlor also had a nice arc. Same with Barcus. A random gnome you save from a windmill had such an epic storyline. That’s the best parts of this game. You mean the Bioware Factor? "Everyone you save then shows up for a speech, and to rally around you!" I damn near rolled my eyes out of the back of my skull when I hit that point. 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Edit: I just realised that in my epilogue Minsk has prison clothes and the Zhentarrim are now peacekeepers in the city ? Even though I sided with the guild ,had nine fingers help me in the final fight and destroyed all the Zhent……This is the second game breaking bug with these guys, why are the Zhentarrim so fucking buggy in this game!?!? Other than that everything else is correct in the epilogue. You've been to their cave, right? You know it's an atrocious, buggy mess full of broken camera movements, clipping problems, audio bugs, etc. 3 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Also was Ninefingers a homage/reference to the First Law Trilogy ? Nope. She's an established character in D&D lore. Many have asked this same question, but I've yet to see any comment or suggestion from anyone at WotC that this is the case. Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) @IlyaP breaking Yugirs contract is not just about avoiding the fight but afterwards he comes to your camp in act 3, helps you break into Raphaels house , joins you to help kill Raphael once your in the house and shows up as an ally in the final fight in the city, with a change in his morals ie redemption arc. That’s what I love about BG3. The devs could’ve just ended his story after you break his contract in the mausoleum itself but instead they chose to fleshen out the choice-consequence factor and develop his storyline and character further, so much content you can easily miss out on. Also if you play as a gith,romance lazael, side with Vlaakith and choose to join lazael in the end to return to her Queen, there’s a unique (and creepy) ending it unlocks….it still boggles my mind on how many different permutations this game has ! Did you finally finish the game and get your own ending btw ? I agree the suicide mission mechanic of Mass Effect 2 has been used soo many times since…Witcher 3, BG3, etc. Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Is anyone up for playing a BG3 multiplayer campaign on the weekends on PC? Im itching to keep playing this game but i wanna do a co-op run as origin Shadowheart now! We can detail out the timings if anyone is in ! Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: @IlyaP breaking Yugirs contract is not just about avoiding the fight but afterwards he comes to your camp in act 3, helps you break into Raphaels house , joins you to help kill Raphael once your in the house and shows up as an ally in the final fight in the city, with a change in his morals ie redemption arc. That’s what I love about BG3. The devs could’ve just ended his story after you break his contract in the mausoleum itself but instead they chose to fleshen out the choice-consequence factor and develop his storyline and character further, so much content you can easily miss out on. Oh I know. I did the fight the other day, before summarily beating Raphael into the ground in five short minutes because Laezel is a goddamn psychopath with five attacks. Yug's still a grossly underwritten character, and I wish there were more backstory to him, as he's one of the legitimately more interesting characters in the game. 28 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Also if you play as a gith,romance lazael, side with Vlaakith and choose to join lazael in the end to return to her Queen, there’s a unique (and creepy) ending it unlocks….it still boggles my mind on how many different permutations this game has ! Did you finally finish the game and get your own ending btw ? A creepy ending doth not =/= meaningful in-game consequences, however. If we make decisions only because of The Ending and not because of Different In-Game Roleplaying Choices it provides the $Char_Name, then that's not really a design choice that I'll find particularly rewarding. Even though, duh, a cRPG can only do and offer so much, but I'd rather have some kind of system like the reputation system in the original Baldur's Gate, where one's choices actively affected how people in the game responded to my character and party, which then affected the choices that could be made, and how easy or difficult a choice would be from a RP or combat perspective. (Early era Bioware really leaned into role-playing in a way post-EA Bioware really did not.) As to finishing it - I finished it at a point that felt satisfying. I got to the stem, and got insanely annoyed at the way the game artificially prolonged the game with new waves of endless combatants to suffer while I dodged intergalactic missiles, and Alt+F4'd out of it and read about the ending, which is basically just more combat, and then "Everyone run for the portal!". (I'm not a combat guy in games; give me as many and whatever RP options you got, but I'm really more about story and lore and choices. Combat is a low second-tier point of concern for me.) 28 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: I agree the suicide mission mechanic of Mass Effect 2 has been used soo many times since…Witcher 3, BG3, etc. As I was telling my other half yesterday: this game is heavy on interactivity and colliding systems, but mostly it's more about object interaction, about vertical object interactivity (or as I joked about with DOS2: "Creative ways to light people on fire"). But from a role-playing perspective...that's not Larian's strong suit. At least not recently*. And so to reach an ending that, as I told her, "felt like Bioware 15 years ago felt a bit regressive, like 'We're still doing this?' Really?" And once again, I found myself pining for Solasta: Crown of the Magister's ending, which wasn't nearly as odious in its length, and instead, was built around a kind of Alamo situation, waiting for help to show up, and finding creative ways of surviving until the calvary showed up to help out. It's a terrific and ridiculously fun game, and once the inevitable Deluxe Edition is released, I'll no doubt play it through a second time, but there's too much parasocial-baiting tittilation that's devoid of meaningful narrative and choice consequences, and a lack of interesting thematic exploration beyond (charitably) "freedom" and "enslavement/fear". Which, really, captures the free-form play of a TTRPG, which is not the same thing as a narrative-driven cRPG (thus the rule of "never make your D&D campaign your novel"). *I've only played DOS 1 & 2 and BG3; have owned Divine Divinity/Beyond Divinity/Divinity II for ages, but have yet to get around to them. Edited March 10 by IlyaP Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (I apparently wrote a goddamn essay by accident. Oops.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Have you played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines ? i suspect you would love that game - although the ending for it is a bit botched cause the devs were forced to rush it (but can be patched by community updates to make that part less painful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 8 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: Have you played Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines ? i suspect you would love that game - although the ending for it is a bit botched cause the devs were forced to rush it (but can be patched by community updates to make that part less painful) It's been on my radar for a while. Tried it a few years ago, but found even then that with community patches it was still a bit janky. But I'll have a look-see tonight after dinner, to see about new community developments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Edit:Wrong Thread Edited March 10 by Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, IlyaP said: And just wait till you try to try to play 5th edition after playing BG3... Pushing people into lava is way less common in D&D tabletop than you'd expect from BG3. 5 hours ago, IlyaP said: Nope. She's an established character in D&D lore. Many have asked this same question, but I've yet to see any comment or suggestion from anyone at WotC that this is the case. She debuted in Murder in Baldur's Gate, which came out in 2013, seven years after The Blade Itself came out, so eminently possible. BG3 also uses the phrase "back to the mud" at least once. Edited March 10 by Werthead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 And back to mud itself was apparently used as recently as the mid-1800s, as I learned today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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