Relic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) On 10/13/2023 at 12:33 PM, Pellert said: Out of interest, how was the expectations of aSoIaF here and in the fan base in general after SoS release? That was a bit before my time, but I have not seen that anyone foresaw that GRRM would face the challenges that he apparently has/ a drop in quality for the later books, based only on the ending of SoS and the status of the plot? Or did people actually already then see major challenges to tie things together? IIRC - After SoS George had a "5 year gap" planned, where 5 years would pass in westeros (and in between 3rd and 4th novel) to allow events to unfold and young characters to age. The first sign of trouble was a couple of years into waiting for the 4th when GRRM announced he was scrapping the gap, and writing a novel that picked up form where SoS left off. A lot of work was scrapped, from what I understand, and the waiting began in earnest. A popular joke back then was that the 5 year gap was an IRL gap between books. Little did we know the series wouldn't be close to complete 20 years later. Edited October 14, 2023 by Relic Pellert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohn Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 4 hours ago, Relic said: Little did we know the series wouldn't be close to complete 20 years later. Or ever would…..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 46 minutes ago, Yohn said: Or ever would…..? Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 One of the things that makes me a little sad about the whole five year gap thing is that iirc GRRM said he was filling it in because he found himself just constantly flashbacking so readers could follow. Which sort of sounded like he didn't trust his readers to keep up with the off-screen if he didn't directly depict them - although it could mean he didn't trust his own ability to sell it. Either way, at the time a time-jump was a relatively rare plot tool in epic fantasy series but since then we've seen it done successfully multiple times, showing pretty clearly it's a more-than-viable way of telling a story that readers are happy to accept. If he'd gone with it it would almost definitely have been fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 3 hours ago, polishgenius said: but since then we've seen it done successfully multiple times best time jumps? Name yours All i can think of are - Age of Madness The Expanse aaaaaaaaand.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellert Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 Thanks guys, I share everyones frustration about this, just didn’t have too much background on the immediate plans after release of SoS. Naive as I am ( ) I still have a small sliver of belief deep down inside of me that we will someday see both WoW, DoS, FaB 2 and a final concludinf novella to DaE i thank the gods for Joe Abercrombie which (for the time being lol) delivers stories for the First Law world at good speed and better quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 Abercrombie is one I was thinking of yeah (between both trilogies and the subseries but yeah). Daniel Abraham does it all the time, he did it in Long Price (much longer time jumps actually) and Dagger and Coin. R Scott Bakker jumped 20 years between his two series. If we're talking SF as well, Alastair Reynolds released the whole original Revelation Space trilogy (plus a few spinoffs) in the real-life five year gap, and that has big time and status-quo jumps in it (actually in that instance probably too big at one point, in the sense that at least one character has essentially an entire character arc happen off-page between books and an entirely new motivation to drive them comes out of it- but it's still totally followable. And very successful). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellert Posted October 14, 2023 Author Share Posted October 14, 2023 Yeah all those have quite successful time jumps. At least Abercrombie, Long Price and Dagger and Coin - Scott Bakker i haven’t read yet (should I?). but I wouldn’t put it equal to a possible time jump after SoS though. I think the challenges (or opportunities) of a time jump after SoS has been sufficiently debated elsewhere in this forum, but both Abercrombie and Abraham sets up the books much more suitable for a timejump. then of course one could make the case that GRRM simply should have set up the story more suitable for timejumps himself if that was his plan, but for the sake of above this particular discussion (let’s not end up in a entirely more timejump discussion of aSoIaF post SoS), there is for sure a very majorn difference in writing BSC/H/RC/AoM after the ending of the FL trilogy, than it is to manage a time jump post SoS.. same for LP really, DaC I must admit I don’t remember how long the actual time that passes between those books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 24 minutes ago, Pellert said: Scott Bakker i haven’t read yet (should I?). Depends on your tolerance for really grim stuff I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellert Posted October 16, 2023 Author Share Posted October 16, 2023 (edited) On 10/15/2023 at 6:30 AM, polishgenius said: Depends on your tolerance for really grim stuff I suppose. most important for me is the setting, worldbuilding and a splash of political plotting and twists. they of course differ a bit, but some examples of series/works I like it; aSoIaF, WoT, LoLL, Rothuss KC, Mistborn, Abrahams DaC/LP, Williams MST/LKoOA, Mistborn, Sword of Shadows, First Law ++, Black Company, and of course the Bound and Broken series lol ). As long as Bakker is remotely close to these type of series setting wise etc, I wouldnt mind it to be (really) grim. Edited October 16, 2023 by Pellert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 16, 2023 Share Posted October 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Pellert said: most important for me is the setting, worldbuilding and a splash of political plotting and twists. the of course different bit, but some examples of series/works I like it; aSoIaF, WoT, LoLL, Rothuss KC, Mistborn, Abrahams DaC/LP, Williams MST/LKoOA, Mistborn, Sword of Shadows, First Law ++, Black Company, and of course the Bound and Broken series lol ). As long as Bakker is remotely close to these type of series setting wise etc, I wouldnt mind it to be (really) grim. Bakker's first trilogy is really good. The second one goes way off the rails, tho. I'd give the first one a go. Tongue Stuck to Wall and Pellert 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) On 10/14/2023 at 6:05 PM, Pellert said: Scott Bakker i haven’t read yet (should I?). TO THE COFFERS BOYS!!!!! A REAL CHOPPER!!!! ITS THE SLOG OF SLOGS!!!! Edited October 18, 2023 by Rhom Larry of the Lawn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 On 10/16/2023 at 11:57 AM, Relic said: Bakker's first trilogy is really good. The second one goes way off the rails, tho. I'd give the first one a go. tbh I liked the second more than the first, even though the ending is... unexpected. But at some point I have to reread the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Unexpected Bakkake I gotta love that after all these years, every new book recommendation thread eventually turns to Achamian and Co. Madame deVenoge, JGP, Reny of Storms End and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Madame deVenoge said: I seem to remember that the first book literally starts out with child rape and a murder within the first six pages? I don't recall that , but yeah, fantasy is filled with horror. A Game of Thrones mentions the rape about 8 times in the first 100 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Madame deVenoge said: I seem to remember that the first book literally starts out with child rape and a murder within the first six pages? Child rape was implied rather than depicted, the murder wasn't. That open to The Darkness That Comes Before is still amongst my favorite Fantasy opens of all time. Rhom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazbibey Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 So I’m on the third main book of the series and as a terry goodkind fan and Branden Sanderson fan I truly enjoyed this series.. it was quick reading and I loved the world design and depth of character highly recommend this series to anyone interested in fantasy novels honestly 5 out of 5 stars even with some writing flaws.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellert Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 On 3/18/2024 at 11:49 PM, tazbibey said: So I’m on the third main book of the series and as a terry goodkind fan and Branden Sanderson fan I truly enjoyed this series.. it was quick reading and I loved the world design and depth of character highly recommend this series to anyone interested in fantasy novels honestly 5 out of 5 stars even with some writing flaws.. Cool stuff, nice to hear that there are likeminded here I fully agree, there are for sure flaws, but the story, world building, characters, action etc is simply really good, and perfect (subjective..) classic fantasy with a modern twist and some uniqueness to not make it to “seen this, read that”. Ryan Cahill keeps a well updated writing progress on his webpage, latest projections is that fourth book is due probably early 2025! So much looking forward to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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