Myrcella I...Queen for a Day???

[KingMaekarWasHere]

GRRM takes ideas from mainly European history to give us ASOIAF. So why not use the story of Jane Grey, as simile/metaphor for Myrcella's potential reign as Queen? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Jane_Grey

Jane may have only been a queen officially for nine days, which makes me wonder if Myrcella would only end up being a queen for a day? 

How would her reign begin and how would it end? Would it begin with an "accident" happening to King Tommen? (possibly via the Dornish/Sand Snakes) 

Would it end via some insane plan of Cersei's? How would Jaime be involved? 

Edited January 3 by KingMaekarWasHere

[Hippocras]

I do tend to agree that Myrcella will be queen briefly. I don't think that the attempt Arianne made to crown her counts as fulfillment of "gold with be their crowns, gold their shrouds". Nor do I think their hair colour is satisfying as an explanation of gold crowns.

However I have certainly wondered if Aegon under certain circumstances, might use her claim to boost his own and help him take the throne, rather than Myrcella claiming the throne entirely in her own right. He could pretend it is like after the Dance, when enemies united in matrimony... until Jaehaera "committed suicide". Myrcella is, after all, on her way North from Dorne currently, and Aegon's forces are on her path while Arianne is negotiating with Aegon.

Cersei has done a great deal to alienate the Tyrells. If they can find a way to extract Margaery and get their people safely out of there then they will gladly leave Cersei and Tommen to their fate and go defend themselves against Euron in the Reach.

 

Possible Sequence:

1. Margaery is taken off the board, either by a trial gone wrong or because of the Sand Snakes. Cersei has Tommen all to herself.

2. Either the Redwyne fleet returning from Dragonstone, or Aurane Waters in the Stepstones captures Myrcella and Trystane is killed in the fighting. If the Redwyns, the plan might be to marry Myrcella and Wilas.

3. Willas dies as a result of the Iron assaults in the Reach. The Tyrells decide to ally with Aegon and offer Myrcella and an end to the Siege of Storm's end if he agrees to assist them against Euron.

4. Arianne begs for Myrcella's life and proposes that Aegon marry her instead of killing her, therefore merging the Baratheon and Targaryen dynasties. 

5. Aegon is now allied with both Dorne and the Reach and advances on KL. But Cersei is warned, and abandons KL for Casterly Rock.

6. Aegon takes KL easily and Myrcella is his queen. For now.

7. Cersei allies with Euron.

8. KL BBQ

 

Edited January 3 by Hippocras

[KingMaekarWasHere]

19 hours ago, Hippocras said:

 

 

Possible Sequence:

1. Margaery is taken off the board, either by a trial gone wrong or because of the Sand Snakes. Cersei has Tommen all to herself.

2. Either the Redwyne fleet returning from Dragonstone, or Aurane Waters in the Stepstones captures Myrcella and Trystane is killed in the fighting. If the Redwyns, the plan might be to marry Myrcella and Wilas.

3. Willas dies as a result of the Iron assaults in the Reach. The Tyrells decide to ally with Aegon and offer Myrcella and an end to the Siege of Storm's end if he agrees to assist them against Euron.

4. Arianne begs for Myrcella's life and proposes that Aegon marry her instead of killing her, therefore merging the Baratheon and Targaryen dynasties. 

5. Aegon is now allied with both Dorne and the Reach and advances on KL. But Cersei is warned, and abandons KL for Casterly Rock.

6. Aegon takes KL easily and Myrcella is his queen. For now.

7. Cersei allies with Euron.

8. KL BBQ

 

I have to admit that your sequence is VERY compelling! I can't see Myrcella marrying Aegon though. In my opinion its just far too easy of a solution to Westeros' problems. After all, if the marriage did occur, it would mean a Four-House union (Lannister-Baratheon-Martell-Targaryen) at least on paper. Talk about your Southron Ambitions...looking at Richard Stark. Anyway, I just think that if the marriage did take place between the two of them, Dany or Cersei really could burn down King's Landing. Cersei because she hates being out of power and control, and Dany because she will believe Aegon to be a fake dragon because its convenient for her conquest. (And cause people believe that she will lose her mind.) 

Also...I don't want to see Myrcella or the city burnt up. 

Edited January 4 by KingMaekarWasHere

[Hippocras]

5 hours ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

I have to admit that your sequence is VERY compelling! I can't see Myrcella marrying Aegon though. In my opinion its just far too easy of a solution to Westeros' problems. After all, if the marriage did occur, it would mean a Four-House union (Lannister-Baratheon-Martell-Targaryen) at least on paper.

Also...I don't want to see Myrcella or the city burnt up. 

Which is why Euron is going to end it just as hope was coming.

I don't want to see Myrcella BBQ'd either. But she will die somehow and this makes as much sense as anything else.

Edited January 4 by Hippocras

[SeanF]

I think the Sands or Jon Con will kill both Tommen and Myrcella.

[Lord Lannister]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:03 AM, Hippocras said:

I do tend to agree that Myrcella will be queen briefly. I don't think that the attempt Arianne made to crown her counts as fulfillment of "gold with be their crowns, gold their shrouds". Nor do I think their hair colour is satisfying as an explanation of gold crowns.

However I have certainly wondered if Aegon under certain circumstances, might use her claim to boost his own and help him take the throne, rather than Myrcella claiming the throne entirely in her own right. He could pretend it is like after the Dance, when enemies united in matrimony... until Jaehaera "committed suicide". Myrcella is, after all, on her way North from Dorne currently, and Aegon's forces are on her path while Arianne is negotiating with Aegon.

Cersei has done a great deal to alienate the Tyrells. If they can find a way to extract Margaery and get their people safely out of there then they will gladly leave Cersei and Tommen to their fate and go defend themselves against Euron in the Reach.

Sometimes a simple explanation subverts expectations. Golden hair could easily qualify as a golden crown. It could also end up meaning other things than a literal explanation. Viserys got his golden crown for example.

As for the Tyrells abandoning Cersei, if Cersei was still calling the shots in King's Landing I'd be inclined to agree. But she's not. She's disgraced and Kevan is dead. That all but leaves the Tyrells in charge in King's Landing. All the Tyrells have to do is put a document in front of Tommen for his seal naming Mace Regent and Hand and tell him it's what Margaery would want.

Edited January 4 by Lord Lannister

[Gilbert Green]

Myrcella's queen-for-a-day moment came and went, and ended with her being slain by Darkstar's poisoned blade.  Now war is inevitable, but Doran is using Myrcella's double Rosamund to delay the inevitable, as he plots and plans, scrambles for allies, and prepares surprise attacks.

Edited January 4 by Gilbert Green

[Hippocras]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Sometimes a simple explanation subverts expectations. Golden hair could easily qualify as a golden crown. It could also end up meaning other things than a literal explanation. Viserys got his golden crown for example.

As for the Tyrells abandoning Cersei, if Cersei was still calling the shots in King's Landing I'd be inclined to agree. But she's not. She's disgraced and Kevan is dead. That all but leaves the Tyrells in charge in King's Landing. All the Tyrells have to do is put a document in front of Tommen for his seal naming Mace Regent and Hand and tell him it's what Margaery would want.

Nah. If it was going to be only about the hair then it would have been about the hair for at least one of her brothers. And with Arianne's plot there was never a corronation.

If I thought Myrcella was likely to arrive in KL safely I might be more inclined to think she would be crowned in her own right. But I just don't really see how she gets past pirates and an invading army by sea or plots to kill her if she travels by land. Her risk of capture by unfriendly forces is extremely high.

[Gilbert Green]

2 hours ago, Hippocras said:

 And with Arianne's plot there was never a corronation.

There was a crown.  The crown and the shroud have been put in her coffin, with her body.

[KingMaekarWasHere]

13 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Myrcella's queen-for-a-day moment came and went, and ended with her being slain by Darkstar's poisoned blade.  Now war is inevitable, but Doran is using Myrcella's double Rosamund to delay the inevitable, as he plots and plans, scrambles for allies, and prepares surprise attacks.

I have definitely heard all that before! Not to say that you're wrong at all. I am almost sure that you are right. BUT!!!! There is still the possibility that Myrcella lives! And if she lives and Rosamund was the one that was attacked, then Myrcella may still be queen. You just can never be too sure. And even if Rosamund is the new Myrcella in name only, just like "Aegon" being Rhaegar's own boy, nobody in King's Landing is likely to sniff out the truth besides Cersei and nobody trusts her anymore. Her reputation is garbage, and if Tommen is killed off by the Sand Snakes...well then "Myrcella" will likely be queen! 

Edited January 5 by KingMaekarWasHere

[KingMaekarWasHere]

On 1/3/2024 at 2:03 AM, Hippocras said:

2. Either the Redwyne fleet returning from Dragonstone, or Aurane Waters in the Stepstones captures Myrcella and Trystane is killed in the fighting. If the Redwyns, the plan might be to marry Myrcella and Wilas.

3. Willas dies as a result of the Iron assaults in the Reach. The Tyrells decide to ally with Aegon and offer Myrcella and an end to the Siege of Storm's end if he agrees to assist them against Euron.

 

 

The two major fleets as well as the allegiances of the Redwynes and the Velaryons is important to keep in mind! Just wanted to say that and repeat your point! 

The WILLAS part of your argument here is also important because we heard a lot about him in ASOS, and he is considered to be the smartest Tyrell basically besides his Redwyne grandmother. So who he marries, when, and for what purpose may easily determine the future of House Tyrell. Mace is old and "heavy" weight wise, so he might not live much longer after all. It's gonna fall on Willas, like Dorne fell on Doran years before. 

Now...do I believe that Euron and the krakens are gonna kill Willas??? Maybe. But I'm leaning toward 80 to 20 saying that the krakens killing him is NOT gonna happen. Willas is smart enough to get himself out of the Reach before it gets too big to handle. He will likely go off to join Aegon in the Stormlands or his dad in King's Landing. 

[Hippocras]

3 hours ago, KingMaekarWasHere said:

The two major fleets as well as the allegiances of the Redwynes and the Velaryons is important to keep in mind! Just wanted to say that and repeat your point! 

The WILLAS part of your argument here is also important because we heard a lot about him in ASOS, and he is considered to be the smartest Tyrell basically besides his Redwyne grandmother. So who he marries, when, and for what purpose may easily determine the future of House Tyrell. Mace is old and "heavy" weight wise, so he might not live much longer after all. It's gonna fall on Willas, like Dorne fell on Doran years before. 

Now...do I believe that Euron and the krakens are gonna kill Willas??? Maybe. But I'm leaning toward 80 to 20 saying that the krakens killing him is NOT gonna happen. Willas is smart enough to get himself out of the Reach before it gets too big to handle. He will likely go off to join Aegon in the Stormlands or his dad in King's Landing. 

Well Euron has taken the Shield islands, so everything along the Mander is vulnerable, including Highgarden. If Highgarden is attacked I doubt Willas will abandon it for KL. Mace will anyway be leading the Siege against Storm's End as soon as Margaery's trial is complete so he will not be in KL.

For now Euron's attention seems set on Oldtown. That is the only reason Willas and Highgarden are not in trouble already.

[Gilbert Green]

11 hours ago, Hippocras said:

For now Euron's attention seems set on Oldtown.

This seeming is an idee fixe of the fans, unsupported by the text, and immune to actual textual evidence.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’m partial to “the half-moon queen.” It sounds very GRRM.

I also think that the Sand Snakes will cause Myrcella’s death, and Arianne will develop some Lady Macbeth-style guilt after becoming Aegon’s queen.

[Hippocras]

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m partial to “the half-moon queen.” It sounds very GRRM.

I also think that the Sand Snakes will cause Myrcella’s death, and Arianne will develop some Lady Macbeth-style guilt after becoming Aegon’s queen.

I don't see why people take it as a given that Aegon would choose to marry Arianne? Or even that this is Arianne's strategy at all?

There really are quite a few other options and facors to consider.

[Aldarion]

4 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I don't see why people take it as a given that Aegon would choose to marry Arianne? Or even that this is Arianne's strategy at all?

There really are quite a few other options and facors to consider.

Because of Arianne's internal thoughts in her chapters, I think.

[Gilbert Green]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:59 PM, KingMaekarWasHere said:

I have definitely heard all that before! Not to say that you're wrong at all. I am almost sure that you are right. BUT!!!! There is still the possibility that Myrcella lives! And if she lives and Rosamund was the one that was attacked, then Myrcella may still be queen. You just can never be too sure. And even if Rosamund is the new Myrcella in name only, just like "Aegon" being Rhaegar's own boy, nobody in King's Landing is likely to sniff out the truth besides Cersei and nobody trusts her anymore. Her reputation is garbage, and if Tommen is killed off by the Sand Snakes...well then "Myrcella" will likely be queen! 

Yes.  It's all only theory at this point, so other things are possible too.

But. 

GRRM has been accused of being a bloated and inefficient writer, and I guess he is guilty as charged to some extent (Your Mileage May Vary), but I don't think he is quite so inefficient as some suppose.  He may progress the plot at a glacial pace, but I don't think he usually sends it around in circles.

I am therefore skeptical of any scenario where GRRM has Myrcella (almost) assassinated and (almost) crowned, but survive, only to have her come round and get assassinated and crowned (in whatever order) one more time, to fulfill the prophesy.

And the prophesy was about Cersei's children.  Not about some other children with the same names (no names were mentioned in the prophesy).  So if a fake Myrcella must get crowned and killed, before the real Myrcella can get crowned and killed (after having been almost crowned and killed already), now we are getting really complicated. 

Also, fooling Balon is one thing.  Fooling everyone at KL is another, and IMHO considerably less plausible.  That, I guess, is why Doran is scrambling for war and and for allies.  He knows the deception can't last long.

 

[Hippocras]

55 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Because of Arianne's internal thoughts in her chapters, I think.

Which say nothing about what Aegon would choose. And Arianne's thoughts as far as I remember were more vague than that. 

Edited January 6 by Hippocras

[Gilbert Green]

5 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I don't see why people take it as a given that Aegon would choose to marry Arianne? Or even that this is Arianne's strategy at all?

They are (supposedly) cousins.  People who are related, but not raised together, often find each-other hot.

And, while I am not sure about marriage, I think some kind of sexual relationship is at least foreshadowed.  I cannot prove that absolutely, because foreshadowing is a vague thing.  But Arianne is not exactly known for her purity and chastity, her last BF got sliced up by Hotah, and she has not found anyone new yet.

Also, GRRM has not done an "accidental incest" story yet (Tolkien once did one that, IIRC, ended in suicide).  He can do it here, since Young Griff was actually born as her brother Quentyn.

[Alester Florent]

8 hours ago, Hippocras said:

I don't see why people take it as a given that Aegon would choose to marry Arianne? Or even that this is Arianne's strategy at all?

There really are quite a few other options and facors to consider.

Well, Arianne is super hot and brings Dorne with her, as well as being old enough to have kids right away. There is currently no other remotely comparable marriage offer on the table, or even obviously available. The only reason to turn it down is if he's holding out for Daenerys.