Jon Targaryen Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I will start this as soon as I finish off WOT. I want to have read at least one book before I see Erickson in person at the WFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potsherds Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I will start this as soon as I finish off WOT. I want to have read at least one book before I see Erickson in person at the WFC. Yo, JT. Before anything else, you gotta spell his name right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barry Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Erikson does not use drafts? A Tab Clear moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Anyways - I did re-read her storyline over again just to see if I was projecting anything, and I don't think I am. Her storyline is sparse, but every interaction and every sentence has impact; there isn't any filler. It's some of Erikson's best writing, IMO.Fair enough, I'm still not convinced but I'll accept it's just caused by difference of wiring in the brain. I'll reread it in a few years, when I'll really have the wisdom I'm supposed to have for my age. Also, not using drafts? It all makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strings Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The real question about the malazan series is what really would happen if kruppe met Tehol with bugg at his side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duchess of malfi Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The reason people Yes, you read that right, Midnight Tides. I can kind of understand people finding it slow to start and so on, but I thought it was probably the most polished of his novels to date. It was, as someone said earlier, a well constructed tragedy: a poignant tale of how a family is torn apart by the machinations of the Crippled God. And what machinations they are! Throw in a dash of comic relief and a fair amount of philosophizing (which personally I enjoy) and you have my favourite book of the series. One of Erikson's strengths is his ability to write tragic circumstances that feel right - see the finale of the Chain of Dogs, the Battle of Coral and the throneroom scene in MT, which reminded me vaguely of Hamlet. Sir Thursday You see, to me there was nothing funny about the "comic relief" in Tehol and Bugg. At all. I found them to be tedious and boring. And what you call philosophizing, seemed like preachiness to me. And I could care less about the family being torn apart by the manipulations of the Crippled God - because I did not care about any of the characters at all. None of them. This huge book could have been summed up in a couple of hundred pages and added to the backstories of the characters as appropriate in later voumes. Like Jordan's Crossroads of Twilight, I honestly do not see a reason for this book to even exist. And man - if he turns in rough drafts to his published, that explains a hell of a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Godsgrace Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 The real question about the malazan series is what really would happen if kruppe met Tehol with bugg at his side? That would be interesting, but I really would love to see what happens when Hellian meets Mogora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 That would be interesting, but I really would love to see what happens when Hellian meets Mogora Hellian slaughters the closest demi-god, turns his blood into alcohol with sheer willpower and gets drunker than ten Irish on St Patrick's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeech Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'd like to see Kruppe meet Iskaral Pust. Hee hee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'd like to see Kruppe meet Iskaral Pust. Hee hee! Two despisable characters that did nothing but annoy. And they violated my only 1 'rambling, talking to himself nutjob' per series rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaegon Targaryen Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Save yourself the pain. They're no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarich Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Read the first two books, found that I actually didn't care for his world of super action heroes and bland characters. I found the wandering around especially pointless, just as opening at least one subplot every second chapter; since I didn't find his characters interesting enough to keep track of all the diversions I quit there. But I'd advise you to read at least the first two books to get a feeling for the series, before you decide wether you want to finish it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Two despisable characters that did nothing but annoy. And they violated my only 1 'rambling, talking to himself nutjob' per series rule. Good thing you quit the series then. There is a very good chance they'll meet up in the next book. Hopefully not for very long though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Read the first two books, found that I actually didn't care for his world of super action heroes and bland characters. I found the wandering around especially pointless, just as opening at least one subplot every second chapter; since I didn't find his characters interesting enough to keep track of all the diversions I quit there. But I'd advise you to read at least the first two books to get a feeling for the series, before you decide wether you want to finish it or not. this is good advice, and the advice I followed as well. I ended up buying MoI (and actually I enjoyed it) in addition to GOTM and DHG, but I'm still really not sure I'm ready to invest in the rest of the series at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerol Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 The real question about the malazan series is what really would happen if kruppe met Tehol with bugg at his side? I would say that is the only combination that could get past all of Kruppe's dodges and maneuvers. On the other hand, whose to say that Krupp wouldn't instantly figure out who Bugg really is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Thursday Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 You see, to me there was nothing funny about the "comic relief" in Tehol and Bugg. At all. I found them to be tedious and boring. And what you call philosophizing, seemed like preachiness to me. And I could care less about the family being torn apart by the manipulations of the Crippled God - because I did not care about any of the characters at all. None of them. This huge book could have been summed up in a couple of hundred pages and added to the backstories of the characters as appropriate in later voumes. Like Jordan's Crossroads of Twilight, I honestly do not see a reason for this book to even exist. Fair enough, I suppose - those things you name are marmite kind of things, after all. Personally, I was rather drawn to Trull Sengar as a character - I was inclined to sympathize with his outsider status, his anger and confusion about what to do when it seems his entire race has left him behind. I don't agree that Erikson should have just added the plot of MT as backstory in the other books though - it is this book that really brings home the threat of the Crippled God, and not having it would severely diminish the reader's perception of the Crippled God's threat. The characters' stories introduced in MT are continued in Reaper's Gale, and I don't think you could just start off a story with: SPOILER: Situation at start of Reaper's Gale 1) A mad emperor on the throne who cannot die. 2) A group of people hunting the spirit of a dragon killed hundred's of thousands of years ago. In any case, an awful lot about the Malazan world's history and metaphysics is revealed in Midnight Tides. There are lots of things in Bonehunters and Reaper's Gale that would make far less sense without the explanations gleaned from Midnight Tides - things like the true nature of the Nascent, what the Shadow Realm is and where the dragons have gone, to name just a few. These are things that aren't infodumped, but rather revealed as part of the story of Midnight Tides, sections that would most likely not be included in a hundred page summary. Stuff does happen in Midnight Tides, and I think that comparisons with Crossroads of Twilight are unwarranted. There is a great deal of information revealed that is useful to the understanding of the world as a whole, and more importantly there is in fact a story told - even if it's one that doesn't particularly enthrall people. Asking Midnight Tides to be taken out would be like having GRRM start Daenerys' story in ACoK and just adding her storyline in AGoT in as backstory. I don't think it would be a good idea. Sir Thursday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Agreed. Midnight Tides is essential for the overall plot of the series, and exposes large amounts of important backstory for: SPOILER: MTThe Tiste races, the Crippled God, the First Empire, the Crimson Guard and the whole Silanda storyline from DHG and HoC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 But SPOILER: MTI don't see how the crimson guard is essential to the overall plot. They are a decoration, and useful deus ex when people like Lorn or Rhulad get cocky, otherwise they aren't even integral to the plot. All sort of "races" got introduced seamlessly into the main story before the Edurs, like the Jag, Jaghuts, Imass, divers or Soletakens, gods, ascendants, Andii or Liosans. It was not necessary to do a side story book to introduce them. I have that same criticism towards Karsa's HOC backstory. They feel like gigantic infodumps to me, because I like my story to flow. I compare that to MoI and the Pannion Seer: An empire, that some monster took over, backed by unknown powers, and the crippled god meddling in it. Did it need a book of backstory to be understandable? Maybe I have just a issue with SE's style, he takes disgressions and side stories to a whole new level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Jaxom - that's the crux of it, I think - Felisin really didn't have that many moments of conscience on her sea voyage. In fact, in her reflections on it, she thinks of how easy it was. And that is 99.9% of the reason for her self-loathing. I think she would have felt more honorable and had less self-hate (which she tried to drown in drugs) had she struggled more. For those of you who say, "but Erikson never says this", this is one of the few moments where Erikson shows TRULY GOOD writing - he shows, not tells. All the conversations with Heboric and many of the flashbacks to the sea voyage, and some of her interactions with Beneth show this. Absolutely spot on! Felisin hates herelf since it was so easy for her to fall into that behaviour. I really don't understand why this is hard for people to see, or why they can't understand her perspective. For me, her behaviour has always been crystal clear. And yes, Chataya and I agree, take note people. I have more to write about the complaints about Deus Ex Machina, which I think people are using incorrectly in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dow Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Save yourself the pain. They're no good. Couldn't agree more. Having read Gardens of the Moon, and having stopped there since I'm not a particular of comic fantasy 50th level AD&D Monte Hall adventures, I really can't understand why fantasy message boards lump Erikson in there with Bakker and Martin. How many do I see references to 'Martin/Bakker/Erikson' as the epitome of good fantasy? I'd put Erikson closer to Goodkind on the bad end than to Martin on the top end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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