etcetera Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Cool. This thread is quite timely. I was in the bookstore Saturday and this book called to me from the SF shelves. I bought it, but will probably not get around to reading it until later in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Cool. This thread is quite timely. I was in the bookstore Saturday and this book called to me from the SF shelves. I bought it, but will probably not get around to reading it until later in November. It was actually the positive review in Entertainment Weekly that had me seek this one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Book Critic Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I bought the Scavenger Trilogy a while ago because of all of the good things I heard about it, but I was sorely disappointed. I could barely finish the first book in the trilogy and just stopped after trying to get into the second one. I thought the concept was pretty interesting, but the writing and pacing was too subpar for me. Later, I picked up "Devices & Desires", thinking since it was a more recent release that maybe it would be better written. Once again, great concept, but the writing just didn't do it for me. K.J. Parker is just one of those authors that doesn't appeal to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podrick Clegane Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Loved it, can't wait for the US release of the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat5150 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I thought it was good, but the book suffered from a number of shortcomings. . . Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Has anyone here read the Escapement by him/her? I just finished Evil for Evil and have a question SPOILER: IibulThe poetry clearly indicated Ziani had written letters to his wife at the end of Devices and Desires, but in Evil for Evil there were some questionable bits in her letter to whoever she wrote to, for example "you never come see me anymore". Wut? Also, while the man's letter perfectly goes along with what Ziani is doing, it could also be taken as, say, Boioannes'. So what I'm asking is, is it still correspondence between Ziani and Ariessa, or is Ziani being cuckolded while campaigning for his love? I am confused and angered by this problem, and certainly unable to confidently continue my day to day affairs until this mystery is solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Has anyone here read the Escapement by him/her? I just finished Evil for Evil and have a question SPOILER: IibulThe poetry clearly indicated Ziani had written letters to his wife at the end of Devices and Desires, but in Evil for Evil there were some questionable bits in her letter to whoever she wrote to, for example "you never come see me anymore". Wut? Also, while the man's letter perfectly goes along with what Ziani is doing, it could also be taken as, say, Boioannes'. So what I'm asking is, is it still correspondence between Ziani and Ariessa, or is Ziani being cuckolded while campaigning for his love? I am confused and angered by this problem, and certainly unable to confidently continue my day to day affairs until this mystery is solved. Having finished Evil For Evil recently, I too am concerned about this. Hopefully the Escapement will come in soon and answer my questions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peadar Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I've already seen "The Escapement" in a shop in London. I plan to get it soon with my Christmas store of book-tokens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep the Evicted Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Has anyone here read the Escapement by him/her? I just finished Evil for Evil and have a question SPOILER: IibulThe poetry clearly indicated Ziani had written letters to his wife at the end of Devices and Desires, but in Evil for Evil there were some questionable bits in her letter to whoever she wrote to, for example "you never come see me anymore". Wut? Also, while the man's letter perfectly goes along with what Ziani is doing, it could also be taken as, say, Boioannes'. So what I'm asking is, is it still correspondence between Ziani and Ariessa, or is Ziani being cuckolded while campaigning for his love? I am confused and angered by this problem, and certainly unable to confidently continue my day to day affairs until this mystery is solved. You find out all about it in the Escapement. You have to realise that Zaini is also being manipulated. As for devices and Desires its a pretty decent read, i think people who liked the Farseer Trilogy will really enjoy it but the have to remember that the main character is one huge bastard. Following is a link to my reveiw. My review of Devices and Desires It gets much better with Evil for Evil though. By much better i mean more complex more sadistic more...drama. The Escapement was....complicated. I want to do a review but i don't know how to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Edit: Disregard. I can RAAAAAAGE well enough while waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Probably going to start D&D this weekend. The whole premise has me really interested. I'll pipe in once I've got both feet wet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttering Bill Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 As for devices and Desires its a pretty decent read, i think people who liked the Farseer Trilogy will really enjoy it but the have to remember that the main character is one huge bastard. Following is a link to my reveiw. My review of Devices and Desires I'm not sure that I would agree with your review. I'm still 150 pages away from finishing though. You probably read a different version (considering that you reviewed it in May), but the Orbit covers are great. And I like the title. Not that those things really make much of a difference. But I would disagree mainly with you assertion that the characterization is bad. Yes, everybody has a few quirks about them, and in some of the secondary characters they do seem to run together, but the main group (Ziani, Orsea, Miel and Valens), all seem, to me, fairly unique in their dysfunctions. Frankly, I'd be more disappointed if they didn't have some quirks. There's something of a yin and yang effect to them. Miel is honorable and Ziani is a complete bastard - Orsea is a weak, indecisive leader while Valens is a strong, confident one. The same can be seen in the nations - Mezentia vs. Cure Hardy, Eremia vs. Vadani (I'm probably screwing up the names). I'd say characterization is... adequate. The problem I'm running into is that he (she?) focuses too much on world-building. Not that I dislike world-building, but there's way more information than I need. The level of detail slows the story to the point that it is, at times, boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheep the Evicted Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'm not sure that I would agree with your review. I'm still 150 pages away from finishing though. But I would disagree mainly with you assertion that the characterization is bad. Yes, everybody has a few quirks about them, and in some of the secondary characters they do seem to run together, but the main group (Ziani, Orsea, Miel and Valens), all seem, to me, fairly unique in their dysfunctions. Frankly, I'd be more disappointed if they didn't have some quirks. There's something of a yin and yang effect to them. Miel is honorable and Ziani is a complete bastard - Orsea is a weak, indecisive leader while Valens is a strong, confident one. The same can be seen in the nations - Mezentia vs. Cure Hardy, Eremia vs. Vadani (I'm probably screwing up the names). I'd say characterization is... adequate. The problem I'm running into is that he (she?) focuses too much on world-building. Not that I dislike world-building, but there's way more information than I need. The level of detail slows the story to the point that it is, at times, boring. Look at the character's you just named they never get truly and utterly angry, like furious, because they are all contemplatives and cool headed individuals with a taste for the ironic; its just that they compare thing, or think them through, in different terms, like Valens thinks in terms of hunting while Zaini thinks in terms of Mechanics. But by the time i finished the series i think i worked it out my quirk with the characters, its simply Parkers "voice" leaking out which is why they all seem so alike. Which again brings me back to the bad characterisation. Or at least it would if i didn't think that the whole point of Parkers series was to show that people aren't that different after all, and that if we had the ability and we where in Zaini's place we would do the same thing. Which is of course bullshit. As for the info-dumping it either gets less as the story goes on or you notice it less because you get usued to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttering Bill Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Look at the character's you just named they never get truly and utterly angry, like furious, because they are all contemplatives and cool headed individuals with a taste for the ironic; its just that they compare thing, or think them through, in different terms, like Valens thinks in terms of hunting while Zaini thinks in terms of Mechanics. I hadn't noticed that, about the anger, but now that you mention it... I suppose, had I noticed it, I would just have assumed it was because nothing has really happened yet to make them all that angry, and that it would probably come about later in the series. So apparently it doesn't. Out of that group though, Orsea stands out not being all that contemplative. But then, he's also the least relevant of them; hardly stands up as lead character even. Let's say we have two personalities then - the confident Valens, and the calculating Ziani. And the other two are just opposite versions. So different that they might as well be the same. I think Parker's prose, in general, is mechanical. It doesn't really have anything to do with the characters. Whether he's talking about how to build a machine (which I wish he would do less of), how to conduct a hunt or describing the politics in the Republic, it all comes out in the same voice. (And every character does seem to have his own thing to equate everything to.) He seems to like to over-analyze everything into the most minute details. Still, where I am, I wouldn't say that it's bad. Not a great job certainly. But just enough to get the job done without standing out, to me, as being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 It is worth noting at this point what everyone misses about Parker the first time they read her: KJ Parker is a woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 It is worth noting at this point what everyone misses about Parker the first time they read her: KJ Parker is a woman I didn't. Saw the initials, assumed it was a she. Checked, was proven right. Regarding the stuff in spoiler space. Dude, the main theme of this book is that people do horrible, misguided things out of love. Theme is found almost everywhere. I agree a lot of the character sound slightly similar in tone, but it's a kind of tone I like, so I didn't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 >> Regarding I know mate, I think I just hoped there'd be one last bastion of innocence left. If she did what she did - which seems to be the case - I find it to be almost hilariously brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttering Bill Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 It is worth noting at this point what everyone misses about Parker the first time they read her: KJ Parker is a woman By the initials, I assumed that... ummm... the author, was a woman. But then I looked around and Wikipedia says otherwise. In reality, Parker is a pseudonym of the British writer Tom Holt [citation needed] . His books break down into three trilogies. And from reading it, this certainly doesn't seem like a woman (not that that necessarily means anything). So I have no idea what to think, and default by referring to him/her as male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edda van Heefmstra Ruston Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Odd. That was only added in November, and is unverified, but speculation goes back at least as far as 2003. Certainly Tom Holt (or a user with that name) was recommending Parker's books (as a new Anglo-American author) on www.swordforum.com in 2004. So do we think: Tom Holt was born in London and raised in Vermont (i.e. the two authors are the same and neither biography is a lie)? KJ Parker's biographies in the books are total fabrication? KJ Parker is someone Tom is connected to - i.e. someone met through his blacksmithing hobby, maybe? Or they're just totally separate people with no connection at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Or this, from the Acknowledgments page to Devices and Desires: ...Tom Holt, for a crash course in cuir bouilli... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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