The Babylon 5 Rewatch Thread

[Ran]

The first season was a bit scattershot, yes. You get a lot fewer truly bad episodes later on, though.

[Ser Bryon]

I re-watched "The Gathering" last night, which I think is a fairly reasonable pilot movie since the exposition does a good job of setting things up for later on.

Maybe it's the fact that I haven't watched the show in such a long time, but I was just astonished time and time again by some of the stuff I was seeing. That feel of that show is so 80s! I know that the costuming got better and better as the show went along, but WOW! In one scene, I swear that the Commander's girlfriend is wearing the same outfit worn by DJ on Full House

When Lando is up at the bar after missing Ambassador Kosh's big arrival, I about died when I saw the bartender. I understand that new shows are often opperating on a budget, but the alien behind the counter was a guy in a gorilla suit with (American) football pads on! I just keep telling myself that it's going to get better.

And Delen! Ah, my poor Delen! Don't worry, they'll be taking some of that make-up off of you soon. They'll have to in order to keep their ratings with the "sex-appeal" factor and to make you seem more "human". My wife, who had never seen the show, saw Delen for the first time, pointed an accusing finger at me and squealed "You used to have a crush on that?" Ah, my ill-spent youth

Now I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy the series. I was lucky to have found "The Gathering" for $5 at a video game store. Somehow I don't think I'll be as lucky with the seasons

[mandy_k]

I re-watched "The Gathering" last night, which I think is a fairly reasonable pilot movie since the exposition does a good job of setting things up for later on.

I agree on the exposition - that's the saving grace of this movie, which for some reason unexplicably at least for me was nominated for a Hugo back then. While the execution left a few things to be desired, it did a good job introducing the major characters, races and conflicts.

And Delen! Ah, my poor Delen! Don't worry, they'll be taking some of that make-up off of you soon. They'll have to in order to keep their ratings with the "sex-appeal" factor and to make you seem more "human". My wife, who had never seen the show, saw Delen for the first time, pointed an accusing finger at me and squealed "You used to have a crush on that?" Ah, my ill-spent youth

Not to mention G'Kar in his bloomers !! If they'd kept that up, there would've been a serious drop in G'Kar's female fans

[Ser Bryon]

Not to mention G'Kar in his bloomers !! If they'd kept that up, there would've been a serious drop in G'Kar's female fans

I know! I just kept thinking, "Where the hell did this Jim Dandy come from and where is the G'Kar I came to know and love?" My wife thought he was adorable. I told her she couldn't speak for the rest of the evening

[fgalkin]

Watched episode 13: Signs and Portents and loved it. The first great episode. If the quality can keep at that level I will have no problem watching this series. I just hope there is less Infection and more Signs and Portents in the future.

Let's put it this way: you will see episodes that will make Signs and Portents look like Infection. Yes, they are that good. Wait for them, they are coming. Even in Season 1- A Voice in the Wilderness was good, Babylon Squared was awesome, and once you've seen Chrysalis, you'll never look back.

The show's best episode (IMHO) is in Season 2, so you don't have to wait for very long.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[mandy_k]

I know! I just kept thinking, "Where the hell did this Jim Dandy come from and where is the G'Kar I came to know and love?" My wife thought he was adorable. I told her she couldn't speak for the rest of the evening

The hairstyle of the Centauri in these early episodes is also absolutely hysterical In one of the DVD commentaries JMS explains how that came to pass: Apparently Peter Jurassic went from the make-up department like that to JMS asking (jokingly) "What do you think of this?" and JMS replied (also jokingly) he thought it was great - neither of them realising that the other one was joking, they ended up filming it like that On the commentary, JMS then proceeds to "profoundly apologise to anyone looking at that now", referring to Londo's hair as "a cat on his head" and "that creature you could kill someone with"

[Maltaran]

The show's best episode (IMHO) is in Season 2, so you don't have to wait for very long.

The Coming of Shadows, yes? (aside: watching scenes with Londo in them makes me want to end every question with the word yes)

[fgalkin]

The Coming of Shadows, yes? (aside: watching scenes with Londo in them makes me want to end every question with the word yes)

Yes

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Werthead]

1.09: Deathwalker

Probably the best episode of B5 not written by JMS. Very interesting, shedding some light on the Vorlons (shame that Kosh's plan was never explained, although it was touched upon later), focusing a bit more on the League of Non-Aligned Worlds and with a couple of nice twists at the end. A solid episode.

1.10: Believers

The most decisive episode of B5 ever? Some people love it, some think it's utter shite, some think it's very "Meh". A reasonable moral quandary and some excellent dialogue (from original Star Trek writer David Gerrold) - "How much justice can you afford?" - are beefed up by a solid subplot and a very dark ending. But there isn't much meat to the moral debate as the characters just go round in circles a few times until they fall off. I'm going with, "Meh" for this one.

1.11: Survivors

Garibaldi falls off the wagon, a plot is hatched to kill the Earth Alliance president and the station gets some new fighters. There's some nice setting-up for the next episode (the underpaid, undestaffed maintenence teams) but there's no way Kemmer would be allowed to lead the investigation given her past ties to Garibaldi. Jerry Doyle does a got job though and it's interesting seeing G'Kar and Londo in a slightly different light as Garibaldi is forced to ask them for help. Not a fantastic episode, but definitely one that improves on repeat viewings and furthers the inter-relationships between characters. Shame we never found out what happened to Kemmer after the events of Chrysalis though.

1.12: By Any Means Necessary

There's some great stuff in this ep. We see the how 'little people' work on the station and learn more about how the station keeps going. There's a great Londo/G'Kar subplot as well. However, Zento is a useless character and played a little OTT by the actor, and it's a bit odd we never see Connelly again (although she is mentioned a few times in later episodes). The resolution is also a little neat, although it does come back to kick Sinclair's ass later on.

[Shryke]

1.10: Believers

The most decisive episode of B5 ever? Some people love it, some think it's utter shite, some think it's very "Meh". A reasonable moral quandary and some excellent dialogue (from original Star Trek writer David Gerrold) - "How much justice can you afford?" - are beefed up by a solid subplot and a very dark ending. But there isn't much meat to the moral debate as the characters just go round in circles a few times until they fall off. I'm going with, "Meh" for this one.

Believers is awesome, in the context that it was shot like 15 years ago. They killed the fucking kid at the end. It's the "Holy Shit, this isn't Star Trek" moment of the show. The point where you figure out the writers might actually have some balls. It doesn't have as much impact these days, but back then it was like "WTF? They can do that on TV?"

[williamjm]

1.10: Believers

The most decisive episode of B5 ever? Some people love it, some think it's utter shite, some think it's very "Meh". A reasonable moral quandary and some excellent dialogue (from original Star Trek writer David Gerrold) - "How much justice can you afford?" - are beefed up by a solid subplot and a very dark ending.

I think Deconstruction of Fallen Stars might be more divisive, I've certainly heard a wide range of opinions on that one (although not usually 'meh'). Believers is a decent enough episode with an intelligent premise, but it isn't really the most memorable of B5 episodes. Believers does almost feel more like a Star Trek episode than a B5 episode, which is maybe not surprising considering the writer.

[Ran]

Re: Deathwalker,

I think I'd give the nod to "Day of the Dead" over "Deathwalker" as the best non-JMS episode of B5, but it's a close call.

I'm a fan of "Believers". The first episode to really focus on Dr. Franklin, whose drive and intensity was perfectly captured by the late, lamented Richard Biggs.

William,

is "Deconstruction..." really that divisive? I must have missed the arguments about it back in the day. Always thought it was awesome beyond awesome. A jolt of pure SF sensawunda.

[Lord of Oop North]

Believers was awesome for the exact reasons that Shryke mentioned. They did no cop out with a Star Trek ending and went with something darker and more believable. It is one of the first episodes where you can see that B5 was going to be different than other sci-fi tv shows of the time.

I always liked Survivors and wished Kemmer was made a series regular.

Who is Connely by the way? I don't remember her.

[mandy_k]

Deathwalker is an interesting character as it is the only one in Straczynskiverse that might be considered "evil incarnate". Ordinarily JMS villains have an agenda that is designed to assist *some* people, as in the case of Bester, or at least have understandable ulterior motives. This little speech was inserted into the script by JMS himself: "Your kind takes blind comfort in the belief that we are monsters. That you could never do what we did. The key ingredient in the anti-agapic cannot be synthesized. It must be taken from living beings. For one to live forever, another one must die. You will fall upon one another like wolves. It will make what we did pale by comparison [...] Not like us? You will become us. That's my monument, commander." The episode here shows us that humans have the potential for being much worse than they think. Later on in Chrysalis Delenn tells us, that humans have the potential for being much better than they think. What JMS seems to be telling us is that humans underestimate their capacity for both good and evil.

Believers is an episode I really liked a lot, not just because of the dark ending, but also because the response tells us a lot about the motivations of the ambassors. For Londo it's all about money, for G'Kar it's all about power, and Delenn declines because of her believes (ironically, the parents of all people can't understand that at all). No-one is "right", there is no way of finding an "agreement", recognising that there *are* such situations is part of what I love about B5.

[Shryke]

Kosh's answer is the best one of all. I LOVE that line. "The avalanche has begun. It is too late for the pebbles to vote".

Basically, bigger shit then this is going down, no one cares about your son.

As, as I said, Believers is SUPPOSED to feel like a Star Trek show. It sort of lulls you into it, and then backhands you at the end to show you that, unlike Star Trek, B5 is not fucking around.

[Ran]

Oh, about Deathwalker, it should be noted that when the Vorlon ship comes in to blow her out of space, the ship fires _twice_ -- once seemingly at empty space. It's generally been taken to mean that there was a Shadow vessel lurking, perhaps interested in snatching up Jha'dur so as to be able to spread her knowledge. Her anti-agapic is pure, unadulterated chaos.

[Werthead]

Believers is awesome, in the context that it was shot like 15 years ago. They killed the fucking kid at the end. It's the "Holy Shit, this isn't Star Trek" moment of the show. The point where you figure out the writers might actually have some balls. It doesn't have as much impact these days, but back then it was like "WTF? They can do that on TV?"

I'm a Blake's 7 fan (as was JMS). They were pulling crazy shit like this ten years before TNG even aired B5 always had to work a bit harder to impress me.

Who is Connely by the way? I don't remember her.

The head of the Docker's Guild.

Oh, about Deathwalker, it should be noted that when the Vorlon ship comes in to blow her out of space, the ship fires _twice_ -- once seemingly at empty space. It's generally been taken to mean that there was a Shadow vessel lurking, perhaps interested in snatching up Jha'dur so as to be able to spread her knowledge. Her anti-agapic is pure, unadulterated chaos.

Never heard this one before. I think it's more likely that the Vorlons just wanted to make it look cool by showing off their weapons to the younger races

There's a really good point JMS made about this episode versus Signs and Portents, but I'll hold off on that tomorrow as it's quite cool.

[fgalkin]

I've decided to join in, sort of, starting with A Voice in the Wilderness. You'll have to excuse me for skipping over straight to the good parts. It's likely I won't have tome to watch all of the eps, but I'll try to catch the major ones. I've rewatched B5 a few years back, so I remember most of them pretty well, anyway.

EDIT:

Anyway, A Voice in the Wilderness, part 1 and 2. Unquestionably one of the best S1 episodes (better than Signs and Portents, IMHO, but nowhere near Chrysalis quality). It introduces the Great Machine, and Draal (one of my favorite characters), and the Mars storyline (and Lise!). Alas, we don't get to see Zathras until the next episode (it's kinda ironic that they're introduced in two subsequent episodes, even though we won't find out their relationship until The Long Twilight Struggle. Still, I love the duo, and it's a pity we don't see that much of them.

Plus, we got our first look at the very first EA capital ship seen on screen. I remember that back in the day, before this episode aired, some people thought that the EA had no capital ships because none were seen on screen (whereas we saw the Narn, Minbari, and Vorlon ships. We didn't see any Centauri warships until later, but for some reason, no one doubted that they had them. I guess maybe they thought Earth lost all its capitals ships in the war). And I like the Hyperion-class much better than the silly Omegas, to tell the truth. Although none can compare to the awesomeness that is the Nova class and its huge guns (worthy of the name "Dreadnought").

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Jon AS]

And I like the Hyperion-class much better than the silly Omegas, to tell the truth.

Bah, the Hyperion doesn't even have any artificial gravity. Which reminds me, IIRC (I just caught up with Werthead on my rewatch, haven't gotten this far yet) you can actually see that the Hyperion's captain is wearing a seatbelt when sitting on his bridge in this episode. I love this kind of attention to detail on this show, like B5's Starfuries using the station's rotation to launch etc.

[fgalkin]

Bah, the Hyperion doesn't even have any artificial gravity.

Technically, neither do the Omegas. They have simulated gravity. They also have a ridiculous design. I know they're based on the Leonov from 2010, but it's still silly. Not only does it prevent any large guns being mounted on the hull, and present a huge bloody target, it generates so much momentum the ship would barely move at all! Not to mention that when it's moving under power, the crew would be standing on the walls.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin