Doctor Who: Season 4

[Werthead]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1359644' date='May 18 2008, 16.12']I thought this episode was pretty good as well, but I think they should try to break out of their formula sometime. Not every episode that takes place in the past or present must include aliens (well, except for a certain timelord, obviously) to be interesting and fun.[/quote]

They did this in the original series. The non-alien, 'purely historical' episodes tended to suck a lot, so they stopped doing them. Of course, they could have another go now.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEpcIUOr6cU&eurl=http://lj-toys.com/?journalid=9682409&moduleid=52&preview=&auth_token=sessionless:1212008400:embedcontentiurl=http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EEpcIUOr6cU/default.jpg"]The mid-Season 4 trailer.[/url]

Guess we're seeing [i]him[/i] in the Season 4 finale then... :D

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1374083' date='May 28 2008, 23.01']They did this in the original series. The non-alien, 'purely historical' episodes tended to suck a lot, so they stopped doing them. Of course, they could have another go now.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEpcIUOr6cU&eurl=http://lj-toys.com/?journalid=9682409&moduleid=52&preview=&auth_token=sessionless:1212008400:embedcontentiurl=http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EEpcIUOr6cU/default.jpg"]The mid-Season 4 trailer.[/url]

Guess we're seeing [i]him[/i] in the Season 4 finale then... :D[/quote]

I'd forgotten how annoying Rose's accent was.

And yes, with the amount of Daleks on screen, it looks like he'll be there :)

[potsherds]

[quote name='Republika Hrvmaltska' post='1374087' date='May 28 2008, 23.04']I'd forgotten how annoying Rose's accent was.

And yes, with the amount of Daleks on screen, it looks like he'll be there :)[/quote]
Ahem. He? Spoiler the answer I ought to know but have forgotten? Pretty please. :)

[Werthead]

SPOILER: DW

Davros, the Daleks' creator. Easily the highest-profile villain from the old series they haven't brought back yet, bar possibly the Ice Warriors. Davros was humanoid, but lost his lower legs in the nuclear war between the Kaleds - the Daleks' humanoid ancestors - and the Thals, so trundled around in a wheelchair that resembled the lower half of the Dalek. And in the trailer you can see the lower section of a Dalek gliding forward with the upper half in shadow.

[potsherds]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1374203' date='May 29 2008, 00.19']

SPOILER: DW

Davros, the Daleks' creator. Easily the highest-profile villain from the old series they haven't brought back yet, bar possibly the Ice Warriors. Davros was humanoid, but lost his lower legs in the nuclear war between the Kaleds - the Daleks' humanoid ancestors - and the Thals, so trundled around in a wheelchair that resembled the lower half of the Dalek. And in the trailer you can see the lower section of a Dalek gliding forward with the upper half in shadow.

[/quote]
Oh! Ok, yeah, I saw those eps. Thanks for reminding me. :)

[john]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1374083' date='May 28 2008, 23.01']They did this in the original series. The non-alien, 'purely historical' episodes tended to suck a lot, so they stopped doing them. Of course, they could have another go now.[/quote]

That was part of RTD's mandate - everything has to be alien, including ghosts, witches etc. So that might change under Moffat. I'd like to see, in the new regime, some finale episodes which didnt involve saving the world (Earth) from some immense catastrophe.

[Maltaran]

So, the girl is the Library, right? Or at least, she's the AI that runs the place, and Dr Moon is some kind of diagnostic/repair program trying to fix the damage caused 100 years ago.

Also, I've said this before and no doubt I'll say it again, but I really hate time loops.

[Werthead]

This was the first ep of Season 4 I'd seen and the first once since Donna joined. My guess was that given she's been in 7-8 eps now she'll have settled down and become bearable since her original appearance.

Instead she is much, much worse. Every time she was on screen I was totally jolted out of the episode. Absolutely beyond belief. Her sorry ass should have been fired episodes ago.

The episode plot was also pretty bobbins, and they didn't concentrate much on the mystery of this woman who is presumably a future companion of the Doctor's whose met him before he's met her. Incidentally this idea was (conceptually) much better handled in the 7th Doctor story [i]Battlefield[/i], where the Seventh Doctor had to resolve a situation that a future incarnation had started dealing with but left incomplete, resulting in an excellent inversion on the usual scenario with all the supporting guest cast knowing who the Doctor is and what the enemy is that has to be confronted this week, and him not having a clue about who they are or what's going on.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378426' date='May 31 2008, 20.07']they didn't concentrate much on the mystery of this woman who is presumably a future companion of the Doctor's whose met him before he's met her.[/quote]

Isn't it a Time Lord rule that you're not allowed to tell people what happens in their personal future? I got the impression from the way she talked about her book that it was. Which is good, because it means there's less time loop stuff to annoy me.

[mormont]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378426' date='May 31 2008, 20.07']This was the first ep of Season 4 I'd seen and the first once since Donna joined. My guess was that given she's been in 7-8 eps now she'll have settled down and become bearable since her original appearance.

Instead she is much, much worse. Every time she was on screen I was totally jolted out of the episode. Absolutely beyond belief. Her sorry ass should have been fired episodes ago.[/quote]

Agreed.

I know I've said this after practically every episode but it [i]really can't[/i] be said enough. Utterly awful. Marginally beaten by Bonnie Langford in the 'worst companion ever' stakes, but it's a close-run thing.

Hopefully she really is dead! :thumbsup: But we couldn't be so lucky. :(

[quote]The episode plot was also pretty bobbins, and they [b]didn't concentrate much[/b] on the mystery of this woman who is presumably a future companion of the Doctor's whose met him before he's met her.[/quote]

:unsure: Did we watch the same episode? They found a way to drag it in, like, every two minutes. It was about as subtle as a brick.

Malt, yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines and was pleased when that became obvious (I twigged it just before Moon started with his chat about the 'the real world', which was a bit late).

The whole concept of the episode is slightly dubious (a library the size of a planet? Daft) but I'm getting used to that. ;) It's what they do with the daft concepts that counts.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Morba the Greek' post='1378436' date='May 31 2008, 20.15']Malt, yeah, I'm thinking along the same lines and was pleased when that became obvious (I twigged it just before Moon started with his chat about the 'the real world', which was a bit late).[/quote]

Or in other words, just before I did ;) I'm guessing the girl is CAL (maybe she's related to HAL? :P)

And no, Donna won't be dead. Remember that message - 4,000 saved, no survivors? I'm guessing she's been uploaded somewhere (I just finished reading Altered Carbon, so digitising the brain was on my mind).

[Werthead]

[quote]I know I've said this after practically every episode but it [i]really can't[/i] be said enough. Utterly awful. Marginally beaten by Bonnie Langford in the 'worst companion ever' stakes, but it's a close-run thing.[/quote]

Do you remember Adric? A companion so reviled they obliterated him in a titanic antimatter explosion. However, the actor did a Wil Wheton and started turning up at conventions and turned out to be quite nice and funny in RL and people regretted wishing flaming death upon him. Mel (Langford's character) was much worse though.

[quote]:unsure: Did we watch the same episode? They found a way to drag it in, like, every two minutes. It was about as subtle as a brick.[/quote]

Well, it was a subplot, not the main focus of the ep, even though it was a thousand times more interesting than the main plot. The problem was that they resorted to [b]X-Files[/b]/[b]Lost[/b] tricks not to have them answer any questions about it. "What's going on? Who are you?" "Well...oh hang on, what's going on over there?"

[quote]The whole concept of the episode is slightly dubious (a library the size of a planet? Daft) but I'm getting used to that. ;) It's what they do with the daft concepts that counts.[/quote]

I could be wrong about this but the library was referenced several times in the original series. They couldn't go there as the budget wouldn't stretch to it.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378448' date='May 31 2008, 20.24']Do you remember Adric? A companion so reviled they obliterated him in a titanic antimatter explosion.[/quote]

Have they actually killed any companions other than Adric? I mean really killed, not merely gone home or trapped in a parallel universe or something.

[Werthead]

Yes. Katrina, a Trojan handmaiden the Doctor rescued from the fall of Troy, was sucked into space and killed in the First Doctor story [i]The Daleks' Masterplan[/i]. Later in the same story, space security agent Sara Kingdom was aged to death by use of the Dalek Time Destructor device.

They also appeared to kill Peri in [i]The Trial of a Time Lord[/i] by having a giant alien green slug transplant his brain into her body and she was killed by Peri's boyfriend, who, magnificently, was played by Brian Blessed. However, this turned out to be a trick played by the Valeyard (a future demi-incarnation of the Doctor from between his 11th and 12th incarnations: are you following this? ;) ) to rock the Doctor's confidence: she later turned out to be alive, well and inside her own head, and living happily ever after with Brian Blessed on his planet of insane barbarian warriors. Ahhh.

I believe they did kill Ace in the spin-off novels, but they have only been ruled as semi-canonical by RTD.

[mormont]

[quote name='Republika Hrvmaltska' post='1378447' date='May 31 2008, 20.24']And no, Donna won't be dead. Remember that message - 4,000 saved, no survivors? I'm guessing she's been uploaded somewhere (I just finished reading Altered Carbon, so digitising the brain was on my mind).[/quote]

Yeah, but I'm hoping 'saved' doesn't mean 'saved'. Don't shatter my hopes of happiness! ;)


ps I am the only person in the known universe (apparently) who liked Adric. :P But I don't think anyone would argue he was worse than [i]'DONAAAHH!'[/i]

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378466' date='May 31 2008, 20.38']Brian Blessed on his planet of insane barbarian warriors.[/quote]

Casting against type there, I see :P

[Derfel Cadarn]

[quote name='Werthead' post='1378426' date='May 31 2008, 14.07']The episode plot was also pretty bobbins, and they didn't concentrate much on the mystery of this woman who is presumably a future companion of the Doctor's whose met him before he's met her. Incidentally this idea was (conceptually) much better handled in the 7th Doctor story [i]Battlefield[/i], where the Seventh Doctor had to resolve a situation that a future incarnation had started dealing with but left incomplete, resulting in an excellent inversion on the usual scenario with all the supporting guest cast knowing who the Doctor is and what the enemy is that has to be confronted this week, and him not having a clue about who they are or what's going on.[/quote]

Given that the knights and Morganna le Fey came from an alternate dimension it's been surmised that the Merlin/Doctor they think Sylvester McCoy to be, is in fact a parallel version of the Doctor. All we know of Merlin/Doctor is that he had a different appearance and was trapped by Morganna in some ice-caves. Albeit in typical who-fashion the TARDIS was probably also hidden in those ice caves. That episode suffered from some problems in that it was supposedly set in the near future (from when it was made in 1989) stating that Britain had a king and there was a £5 coin in regular use.

Though this doesnt work too well considering a not-too-ancient Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart was in it. Albeit things are muddied even further when one remembers the dates of the UNIT adventures were never clear as was 'winked at' when the Dr can't remember if he worked for UNIT in the 70s or 80s. Originally the UNIT stuff was meant to be in the near future, around the 80s but as time went on they began to set them in the year the episodes were filmed.

As for dying companions, Kamelion (the android) was also 'killed'. As was Sara Kingdom albeit her status as companion is debatable.

[Houndred]

I liked Adric for the record. I also think it's funny that they use the actors name as a character in the Little Briton comedy series.

Donna won't die this way at any rate, because Riversong who knows who she is at least, said "How is this possible?" when she see's Donna's face on the android. I think she meant how is it possible Donna dies that way specifically.

Brought up from the you tube forums did anyone catch the drawing of rose and a wolf on the wall of the little girl?

I tried anagrams of Riversong, rose rivng (rose arriving?) was the best I could come up with. I think River Song is a character completely new to the series, but there are about 50 theories out there everything from Jack reincarnated to the Dr's new regenerated self which makes no sense at all.

So far this was the best of the this season I think.

[Maltaran]

[quote name='Houndred' post='1379207' date='Jun 1 2008, 19.38']I tried anagrams of Riversong, rose rivng (rose arriving?) was the best I could come up with. I think River Song is a character completely new to the series, but there are about 50 theories out there everything from Jack reincarnated to the Dr's new regenerated self which makes no sense at all.[/quote]

I think in this case, Occam's Razor applies, and the truth is what was said in the episode - she's someone who meets the Doctor in her subjective past and the Doctor's subjective future.

[potsherds]

[quote name='Republika Hrvmaltska' post='1379214' date='Jun 1 2008, 19.53']I think in this case, Occam's Razor applies, and the truth is what was said in the episode - she's someone who meets the Doctor in her subjective past and the Doctor's subjective future.[/quote]
Yes. Um...but like, I got the impression that the incarnation she saw wasn't the one(s) who were in her time line, i.e. this may just be an opening created for another possible run of Doctor Who in the future (or pathing the way for future eps after David Tennant leaves the show?). Speculation abounds as to who the hell she is, that she's so special he'd give her his one useful tool of trade, though. I mean, giving that up makes me think the Doctor retired, and then gave it to her. I like the character though, I must say. Of course that means she's probably going to die.

Um, while this episode wasn't spectacular, I wasn't groaning inwardly, rolling my eyes, or wondering when the stupidity would end and discovering it never did. :dunno: This ep was one of the better ones of the season, imo, and as before, that's really not saying much.