ZANNI_1276 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I think what some people are missing here is that its not just the personal. That is only half the equation. I'm sure you could switch some of those flops and stars and the flop would be the star and vice versa. Some teams are just vastly superior at developing young talent. Getting the right guy is half the battle, but the other half is developing their potential. I would not be surprised if Indy took Terrell and Chicago Wayne that they couldn't have got Terrell to stand out in that offense and develop his game.There are some clear cases of "wtf why did we take that scrub" but there is more "we took a good prospect and turned him into shit" going on then people are letting on here. You are mostly correct, the very good team may reach for a player but they have the ability to "coach him up". It is what separates the good from the bad in the NFL. If a player is in the right situation with the right coaches, he has a better chance of succeeding as opposed to a player taken by a poorly run and coached organization - provided he isn't an absolute knucklehead - this is the formula for winning coaches and organizations.And then there are the guys who are work out wonders, played well in college and finally get 1 big pay day and then poof - they hit the coast button. You have both running rampant in the NFL today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the silent speaker Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'm sure you could switch some of those flops and stars and the flop would be the star and vice versa.Here's an interesting hypo: suppose we do that with 1998. Colts select Leaf, he stars, Chargers select Manning, he flops. How does that change the league? The whole 2004 draft would have been different, I'll bet, because even if the Giants liked Eli just as much, there's no way the Chargers would have dared take the little brother of their most legendary bust in recent years. Certainly they wouldn't have demanded so much in trade. And with memories of Peyton fresh, it's probable the whole league would have been warier of Eli, not just San Diego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Here's an interesting hypo: suppose we do that with 1998. Colts select Leaf, he stars, Chargers select Manning, he flops. How does that change the league? The whole 2004 draft would have been different, I'll bet, because even if the Giants liked Eli just as much, there's no way the Chargers would have dared take the little brother of their most legendary bust in recent years. Certainly they wouldn't have demanded so much in trade. And with memories of Peyton fresh, it's probable the whole league would have been warier of Eli, not just San Diego.I highly doubt it would have happened that way. Much as I loathe him, Manning's a great QB and would have been fine just about anywhere. The Colts absolutely stunk when he arrived. Leaf's character flaws were visible before the draft, and I doubt even Bill Walsh would have been able to mold him into an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boiled leather Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Leaf's character flaws were visible before the draft, and I doubt even Bill Walsh would have been able to mold him into an NFL QB.Please do not slander the greatest coach of all time. granted he would have cut him in the middle of his first year if he didn't' work out..he was ruthless that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Storm Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Hey Zanni how about the Browns taking Gerard Warren over LaDainian Tomlinson, Richard Seymour, Marcus Stroud, or Casey Hampton. Stroud and Hampton are both DT like Warren but have been to a combined 7 Brow Bowls and All Pro selections, Warren has probably watch the pro Bowl on TV; both Seymour and Tomlinson are both future HOF :ack: :bawl: :cry: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grozeng Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I looked at the 1995 draft after seeing the "Sapp" chanting in the Jets video. Sapp lasted three more slots and was chosen by Tampa Bay. The best pick of the first round was also by the Bucs - Derrick Brooks later on. Really a stellar pair of choices there.And the Jets could have had both. They would have taken Sapp if he would have put a condition on his signing bonus (1/2 now and 1/2 at end of season if no positive drug tests) and they seriously were considering Brooks over Douglas but they wanted to make Douglas into an outside rushing linebacker and had just taken Marvin Jones the year before. How different would the Jets have been if they had both of them instead of Brady and Douglas (who did nothing until he was an Eagle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZANNI_1276 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hey Zanni how about the Browns taking Gerard Warren over LaDainian Tomlinson, Richard Seymour, Marcus Stroud, or Casey Hampton. Stroud and Hampton are both DT like Warren but have been to a combined 7 Brow Bowls and All Pro selections, Warren has probably watch the pro Bowl on TV; both Seymour and Tomlinson are both future HOF :ack: :bawl: :cry: .Well since you asked, I didn't really include the expansion years for two reasons. One because maybe some people who don't follow the Browns would maybe think I was making things up or just trying to be funny because no NFL organization can be as stupid as I would describe right? Two, I don't like talking about it. Technically they were ALL mostly busts from 1999 on BTW. But the draft you mentioned in my opinion was the worse since they came back because of the talent that was there and available, reaady to make us a contender. Also I can't really bring myself to talk about the 99 and 00 draft and all those extra picks they squandered. I was convinced Palmer, Policy and Clark invented a drinking game that had every one's name in a hat, a bottle of tequilla and womans clothes and viola - from this game sprung our draft board from 99-00. The Warren Draft was the worst because we were led to belive unlike the previous clowns Butch Davis knew talent and it was a really deep, deep draft. Even the Browns couldn't screw it up. Actually I didn't want LT though at the time (would now if I did a do over) I wanted Stroud, but really who cares, we took Gerad 'BIG MONEY" Warren. Hey Arkasi - Warren falls in the category of WTF, no coaching could have helped his cheeto eating, couch potato ass. But the total body of the 2001 draft of Butch Davis was something not seen by many fans. 2nd round we take Quincy Morgan - not to get in to the "we could have taken so and so" but look, here were the guys within 7 picks we could have had - Chad Johnson, Kendra Bell, Ken Lucas, Kris Jenkins, Fred Smoot, Aaron Schobel, Matt Light, Jamie Winborn and Lamont Jordan. THey were all THE next picks, no joke. But it gets better. 3rd we take James Jackson - if your asking he was a running back for Miami. But Steve Smith, Mike Gandy and Kareem Mackenzie were taken around then and few others. Bad pick, but he played for Butch at Miami and if you were looking for an undersized, slow RB with no heart he was your guy. Next in the fourth we took Anthony Henry, good solid pick, best of the bunch. Round 5 we take Jerimiah Pharms DE, looks to be the next Charles Haley, big, tall, fast strong huge upside as DE OLB. Except for one. He was convicted two weeks prior to the draft, he ended up being sentenced to HARD TIME -OOPPS, guess we'll take a flier . This pick pretty much summed up the Davis era, all talk no substance, he had you believing that he knew every thing but really didn't, I mean really, really didn't. There were a couple starters in that round but really the egg on the face was kind of strange and that is when I said to my dad "Wouldn't you know if the guy wanted to draft was going to prison?" and he said "come on, these guys are pros, not amatuers". I mean most us of prepare more for our fantasy drafts than these guys did. The next picks were absolute shit, Michael Jameson, great prospect with 45 year old knees. Last we took Paul Zukakkus (sp?) - he might have made the roster, don't know but surely didn't do anything on the field. But I do remember the very next pick was TJ HOUSH...What made it bad was Butch coming from a college program recruited ALL Of these guys so he told you he had "inside" information because he was in all of thier living rooms, who knew he was just a dumb "know it all". He blew one of the best talent producing drafts in recent memory, other than Henry - rest of these guys are not even in the NFL. When you have drafts like these and in CLE case, multiple years worth you are picking at the top, turning over your roster and well, suck. Lessoned learned: Don't ever look to the college ranks to bring in a coach and be sure you at least do some homework on your guys or least find out if there are any recent convictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Storm Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Ah Jeremiah Pharms I had forgotten/ blocked out the Browns drafting him; he was one of a long line of players that were playing for UDUB that should have been in prison. I guess Davis was used to coaching players who are also criminals after coaching at Miami. That 2001 draft hurts so much because there were so many good players that were skipped on or picked just after the Browns made their disastrous pick. I understand some people did not want LT because he was a RB from a small college and the Browns had a RB (they thought) but they next DT picked after Warren was Richard Seymour, that just hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord O' Bones Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 WHO WAS YOUR TEAMS WORST BUST YOU CAN REMEMBER???Kwame Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebla Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 that money is INSANE. God they need to a rookie cap. They were talking about the kind of money Matt Cassel will now command next year in the un-capped year.Cowboys busts. Hoo boy The Cowboys busts. The most recent was Bobby "Barbie" Carpenter, the most un-physical LB ever. Trading out of the 1st round, thus passing on Steven Jackson to take Julius Jones. Or the 2001 draft. Quincy Carter in the 2nd round. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Storm Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 I think we will see a rookie salary cap like they have in the NBA, that's just too much money for a player who has never taken a snap in pro football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Pizza, beer, ridiculous rookie contracts, and a few funny fuckers from an online book club shootin the shit about football...in April.Don't get much better than this. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 The Daytona 500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Which draft coverage are we watching? I'm flipping between ESPN and the NFL Network.There's only so much douche a man can take and between Kiper Jr., Johnson, and Berman That doesn't take too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Kilimaro Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Which draft coverage are we watching? I'm flipping between ESPN and the NFL Network.There's only so much douche a man can take and between Kiper Jr., Johnson, and Berman That doesn't take too long.Who's on the NFL Network? I think I built up a tolerance to Chris Berman thanks to a youth misspent watching the Worldwide Leader when he was still doing the SportsCenter shows. Don't really mind Kiper either for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 They've got Eisen, Marriucci(sp?), Mayock, Gruden, and Faulk.Edit: WTF?!? Curry to Seattle? This draft is making less and less sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sToNED_CAT Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 So Kansas passes on Curry in order to select - Jackson? Guy who was thought to be taken somewhere 20th pick just 2 weeks ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Jets trade for #5 and Sanchez is celebrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 So Kansas passes on Curry in order to select - Jackson? Guy who was thought to be taken somewhere 20th pick just 2 weeks ago?A 3-4 DE at 3 is ridiculous. Speaking of ridiculous, it looks like Sanchez is going to Fireman Ed's squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfinger Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 What's the over/under for Andre Smith getting pulled over at 3AM for reckless driving, unregistered weapon, and drug possession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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