The NFL Thread

[Kalbear]

I was really happy with the limited picks the Bears had.

Jarron Gilbert should do pretty well in Chicago, given that he'll have time to develop and he's a physical beast. Igleasias is a really good possession receiver and can likely start quickly, and should complement Hester fairly well. Al Afalava is better for the Bears and what they want from their safeties; they don't run the kind of Tampa 2 that funnels everyone into the safety spot and makes their safety make all the plays; that's what Urlacher is for. Their safeties are a bit more coverage-oriented. We'll see how it goes, but they did pretty decent for having no day 1 picks.

Crabtree's going to be great...in three years, playing for another team. Pity he has no one to throw to him.

Oakland...just give up.

Oh yeah, Sanchez. I think he's going to be injured this season. He has a history of minor injuries and isn't a big guy.

[King James]

Got to love the Raiders' draft. Of course, I'm a Chargers' fan...

:thumbsup:

[Gold Storm]

I saw this on the Raiders board, they already have Bey's Madden numbers up, he is fast but has cannot run a good route and has sucky hands. The people are bashing the Raiders not because he is bad or anything like that, but because they could have picked him later in the round and traded with somebody else.

Triskele I found this list of free agents that teams have signed. Younger Trisk, is not yet on there yet; but local teams like Seattle, Zona, SF, and the Raiders did not sign that many so there should be room for him to be a walk on or maybe as a late free agent pick up.

[grozeng]

What I'm wondering now is if he can talk to teams and be like "Hey, I led a conference in tackles, can I at least come try out?"

The Jets need warm bodies after only drafting 3 and trading 3.

[Mexal]

Oh yeah, Sanchez. I think he's going to be injured this season. He has a history of minor injuries and isn't a big guy.

I like Sanchez, a lot. But I don't think he should play at all this year. I think he should sit on the bench with a clipboard and let Kellen Clemmons give it a shot. I guess I'm just a big believer in first year QBs sitting to learn instead of being thrown to the wolves early.

[Jaime L]

Are the reporters ever going to talk about something other than character issues with the Bengals?

To me, they're not even that big character risks. I mean, not all "red flags" are created equal. You don't become the most dominant Offensive Lineman in the country without having extraordinary discipline. Same way Rey Mauluga. The guy was the unquestioned leader on that defense. As talented as Cushing and Matthews are, I'd rather have Mauluga for his leadership. I've seen what difference London Fletcher makes for the Redskins. Same way Ray Lewis with the Ravens (another character risk guy BTW)...their importance to the defense exceeds their actual ability. And their intensity sets the tone. That Mauluga fell as far as he did, to me, reflects NFL execs outthinking themselves.

Jaime, I loved your first round pick. Orapko is going to be a beast for you.

One of the local guys at the draft were saying "he wins scariest guy in the green room hands down." Hopefully the Skins D-line can for the first time in a long time actually start scaring opposing QBs. Love everything I'm hearing about him: that he was one of the hardest workers at Texas, that he's always working on improving himself, that he was pumped to come here. Even liked that he's one of those draft picks that when he goes on stage, he's the guy clapping Goodell on the back and chatting him up as though Goodell was the one just drafted.

I saw this on the Raiders board, they already have Bey's Madden numbers up, he is fast but has cannot run a good route and has sucky hands. The people are bashing the Raiders not because he is bad or anything like that, but because they could have picked him later in the round and traded with somebody else.

Pssh, route running, hands...? Like good receivers need htat. Don't you play Madden? All that matters is straight line speed for the fly pattern. Just keep running that until the defense messes up and goes to man to man. TD every time. Or what they can do is use motion to line him up as a TE so he gets matched up with a linebacker. Teams have no way to counter that. None. Doesn't exist. Smells awfully like a championship in Oakland.

[grozeng]

I like Sanchez, a lot. But I don't think he should play at all this year. I think he should sit on the bench with a clipboard and let Kellen Clemmons give it a shot. I guess I'm just a big believer in first year QBs sitting to learn instead of being thrown to the wolves early.

No way in hell Sanchez sits unless the Jets bring in a veteran QB. You don't trade away your 1st and 2nd for a player if you have another QB you have faith in. Clearly despite all the talk, the Jets have no faith in Clemens which I think is a shame. I think he could have worked out if given the shot and no Pennington or Favre to look at over his shoulder.

[ZANNI_1276]

Just some random thoughts - by the way I think people who actually put out grades on the draft - the Monday after are silly but instead of looking at future HOF maybe looking at guys that may contribute right away is a bit more reasonable - I don't think you can actually grade it until 2-3 years.

I too feel bad for Stafford, talk about expectations. And honestly I thought Sanchez was a better all round QB but Detroit is clammoring for success. I can't believe he gets $40 million guaranteed. By the way Scott Mitchell came over from Miami in what maybe described as possibly the worst FA signing in the history of the NFL. Someone mentioned that they haven't had a decent 1st since Barry but i have to disagree. Backus is tough and Calvin Johnson will become the standard to which all WR's will be compared to - he is superstar.

Bengals did OK, there has to something with wrong with Rey, EVERYBODY passed on him and that just tells me their are red flags everywhere, whether it is a smarts thing or not coachable but something is wrong there. Smith is going to be a great LT - had some issues but just watch the guy play against NFL ready talent in the SEC he dominated them there and he will dominate in the NFL. Really like the TE pick too, guy can catch. Hate Michael Johnson. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane. Total underachiever. But if Marvin can get production out of Johnson great but doubt it, he lacks the drive but again we'll see. Just keep this group away from the strip clubs on the other side of the river and they could be solid citizens.

I thought the bears picked up some guys who are going to be ready to at least play on Sundays in Moore (great pick) and Freeman. I am so leery of OK WR's, kind of like FL WR, they just have issues adjusting to the pro game but maybe English (Iglesias) can. Got some guys who will contribute AT least on ST's. Throw in Cutler and things are looking up. Do you think even Lovie can't screw it up?

I actually like Denver's draft - at least on paper. Ayers should start right away and even though they signed a bunch of bone yard RB's in the offseason I think Knowshown is going to be a slick little back.

PHI had a great draft too. Though Maclin and Jackson are similar with similar skill sets the guy is a football player and could produce right out of the gate. Mcoy is a great pick and will fit the system and compliment Westbrook. Like the TE (under the radar) and OT out of Oregon. Did I see that right that the Giants and the Eagles actually made a trade???? You don't see inner-division trades too often.

NE - once again Bill has a smart draft, he seems to know how to work the system. Nothing sexy but Chung and Butler will contribute right away helping out the secondary and they stockpiled picks already for next year. Brace will be solid. (Side note did you guys watch BJ Raji in his home when he found out he was selected - I swear I saw him put out a cigarette, put down his beer and set aside the giant bowl of cheetos. Actually didn't but he is a big BUYER BEWARE)

SEA - solid pick in curry, I also read they removed the franchise tag from Leroy Hill - can anyone confirm? Like Unger - they should have (2) starters game 1 and Butler should contribute next year too.

I really liked JAX taking both Monroe and Britton - great picks and they desperately needed to shore up the OL. Good day for them and they took a guy I really like - Rashad Jennings out of Liberty. I am tracking this guy - FF leagues be on the look out. He is going to snake TD's from Jones Drew....

PIT - did what they always do. Take a bunch of lunch pail guys, unsexy picks but their system has become fool proof lately and I hate it!

SF - Lucked out and got Crabtree - so who ever the QB is finally have a weapon, if the rest of these guys bust out it will still be a successful draft because they got him. By the way Nate Davis the qb, he scored a 10 on the wonderlic. Just saying...

If Al Davis was a dog he would've been put down 5 years ago. Bad enough they took the guy who is so fast he can't catch a football (just what the bust qb needs), he reaches for perhaps a good player he could have gotten at 5 or 6 (some report a undrafted FA) in Mitchell. And Stryker and Slade sound more like guys staring in Porn flick, but maybe they can play?

HOU did OK too.

I will say if Mathews and Cushing played in MLB, there names would be on the mitchell report if you get my drift.

NYG had a solid draft. Stitim will fit in with the front seven there. Picked a bunch of potentially good WR - like Nicks and Beckum. Barden is kinda freaky so we'll see. I saw that too about Reese leaving the door open for Edwards yesterday that is a wait and see.

NYJ - If they wanted a qb they got the best one available in this draft. It was a good deal for both CLE and JETS. The DE was expendable in Ryan's system - fit his brothers system in CLE better. Elam was expandable but keep in mind they did match the offer on him in the off season so they did like him. Trading all those picks for Green though is the one that I question but they had him rated pretty high so it looks like got the guys they wanted. Could be nice three way system with Jones, Green and Washington. Rex Ryan has just become the one Head Coach I want to go grab a beer with, seems like a cool dude from the interview I saw. (NOTE Coughlin being the least I would want to, LOL!)

CLE - I was a bit miffed by all the trading down I have to admit, speculating is it Maclin, is it Beanie, do they want Rey? Good deal as I mentioned with the JETS, we got two fringe starters, filled out some depth on the roster and got extra picks, I really think it was a good deal for both teams.

Perhaps they got the best all round lineman in Mack but interior lineman never get ranked high in the draft but many people think out of all the available lineman in this years draft he as the highest chance of being successful day one. I really like the WR's and it tells me that either Braylon may be gone before camp opens OR they keep him around next year, hope he has a year like he did in 2007 instead of 08 and can unload him for a 1 and 3 maybe next year if he doesn't want to sign a long term deal (NOTE FANS that is the only way he gets traded, if he doesn't want to commit). Kid from Hawaii is allegedly a good fit for the system; if he went to a bigger school they say he would have been a 1st rounder. I like the LB from USC he is undersized and there is talk to shifting him to safety. HMM lets see, a Polynesian DB, likes to hit - I think it might work.

Maybe later I will bring up my theory of why Pacific Islanders make great football players - LOL!!!

Now that is is over - some of you guys seem pretty happy - now comes the fun part of breaking it down.

[Chuck Klingbeil]

Yep. It's not looking good. He didn't get any calls today (unless he got one later) since I'd talked to him. This is after three teams called him this week to make sure that they had the right phone number to reach him.

I didn't expect him to get drafted since he's not a specimen at all but he did have a great year leading the conference in tackles and getting Pac-10 player of the week three times (defensive). I don't think it's out of the question he still gets to try out somewhere but it wasn't a great sign that he didn't get a call today. The interesting thing is that Oregon State seemed to get overvalued with just about everyone (including 5 from their D) getting picked higher than expected.

Their other safety Al Afalava had 34 tackles to his 113 (and no, they weren't avoiding him) yet put up much better numbers at pro day and got drafted by the Bears. A safety who averaged 3 tackles a game.

We'll see what happens. The fact that teams evidently are so scared by his size (that's what I'm guessing the problem is) actually makes his accomplishments this year more remarkable I think. Making a roster was always a long shot but I really thought he'd at least merited an invite to a tryout.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-7-156...-Call-me--.html

Hope this link might help out. Good luck.

[Ser Aardvark]

As someone said, the best time to evaluate a draft is 3 years later...Anyone want to do the top 10 picks of '06 with me (and the rest of the 1st round if you feel like it?)

Pick 1: Houston Texans, DE Mario Williams (A-)

Remember when this was a "Blair Thomas" level draft choice? At the time it certainly seemed that the Texans, who had yet to break that .500 barrier, needed a key QB or RB rather than a DE but they inexplicably passed on Reggie Bush. What a difference three years makes huh? Now a Pro Bowler and Houston’s key defensive player his star clearly outshines...

Pick 2: New Orleans Saints, RB Reggie Bush (C )

Now I'm not going to say this was a bad choice at the time, considering what a morale booster it was for Katrina ravaged New Orleans and how everyone was fawning over him. Unfortunately, three years later the hype has been killed by Bush's utterly mediocre injury riddled performances. It’s doubtful he’ll ever match up to the love affair he gave New Orleans for a year.

Pick 3: Tennessee Titans, QB Vince Young (C-)

Young had an amazing rookie season but the wisdom says "three years." Unfortunately for the Titans, those three years taught the Titans what everyone learned from Atlanta, you just can't have a running QB and expect to go very far in the long run. To be fair, his replacement, Collins, hasn't got further but his miserable performance in ‘07 and the decision to bench him in ‘08 makes this one look something like a bust at this point.

Pick 4: New York Jets, OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson (B)

While he's no Orlando Pace, Ferguson has done admirably on a less than stellar O-Line starting nearly every game for the last three years and made particular strides last season.

Pick 5: Green Bay Packers, OLB A.J. Hawk (C+)

Again, while he's been solid Hawk has not become the superstar he was predicted to be and, three years later, that D is still struggling.

Pick 6: San Francisco 49ers, TE Vernon Davis (C+)

A guy who nobody had heard of before the Combine, Davis's performance hasn't exactly been amazing the last few years. Of course, one could argue that a TE isn't going to look that good without somebody to catch from, and the 49ers have been plagued by QB issues for years. Still, he's no Owen Daniels, who was picked in the 4th round of the same draft and hasn’t exactly had amazing QBs in his NFL stint either.

Pick 7: Oakland Raiders, S Michael Huff (D-)

Who? After two slightly below average years that saw him benched after 5 games in his third, we see Al Davis’s genius strike again with this dud.

Pick 8: Buffalo Bills, S Donte Whitner (D)

Never more than mediocre and injury riddled, Whitner recently became more famous for screaming “DON’T TASE ME BRO!†before being arrested by Cleveland police outside a (surprise!) night club.

Pick 9: Detroit Lions, OLB Ernie Sims (B)

Considering the team he plays for, Sims has done pretty damn well and is considered one of the league’s best tacklers. However, compared to fellow ’06 LB DeMeco Ryan he really didn’t deserve to be #2 of his linebacker class.

Pick 10: Arizona Cardinals, QB Matt Leinart (D+)

All the debate about “Leinart vs. Young†seems silly now doesn’t it? After three awful seasons he looks like a major bust. At least Young had ONE good season.

All in all, the first 10 picks of the '06 draft doesn't look fantastic these days does it?

[Kalbear]

I still think that Bush can shine, but the injury thing is problematic. I also think that Leinart will end up being much better than Young and will have good seasons in his future; the big problem was simply that they got Kurt Warner, and he's a Really Good QB.

But Mario Williams does appear to be all that. Pity the rest of their personnel decisions haven't been so well informed.

[grozeng]

Pick 4: New York Jets, OT D'Brickshaw Ferguson (B)

While he's no Orlando Pace, Ferguson has done admirably on a less than stellar O-Line starting nearly every game for the last three years and made particular strides last season.

The Jets O-Line has been one of it's strong points for several years. The weak spot has been Ferguson. The problem is that he is big, but not huge. He has been overpowered by some of the good ends he faces. He had done better last year, but he has been somewhat of a disappointment so far. He's been good but not great.

[boiled leather]

as a niner fan -- I say Davis is at best a C-. He drops too many passes. His talent level makes him look like a 3rd ro 4th round talend.

I'd also give Williams a straight up A and Houston and A+ for chutzpah to do it. other than that, i'd only nitpick over your assessments.

I remember when the raiders picked up plunkett. he was horrid before then...but then they game him a line and players and stability (he was thoroughly chewed up in NE). It makes me wonder if Alex Smith is really bad, or if the lousy line (Kwame Harris, what a stiff) and receivers and carousel of OC's crippled him. I tend to move toward the latter. I don't think hes the 2nd coming of Marino or Elway, but he should demonstrate enough talent to put him in the 8-15 qb ranking level, which clearly hasn't happened. so perhaps this is an extension of the nature vs. nurture argument, and nurture wins.

[Bronn Stone]

But Mario Williams does appear to be all that. Pity the rest of their personnel decisions haven't been so well informed.

Even the Williams decision was misplayed badly. Bush was in enormous demand. As I've often argued here with a certain obstinate ex-Marine, the Texans decision to avoid the hype machine around Bush was laudable. But they still should have taken advantage of it, much as the Chargers did in 2004 with the Eli hype. The proper move was to draft Bush and let the bidding begin. The Texans instead chose to pay Williams 'first-pick' money and got no bonus picks as a result. Had they the cojones to draft Bush then move him, they could have gotten a lot more.

[grozeng]

Just reading the Mel Kiper chat on ESPN and he thinks Clemens will be the starter this year. I can't believe the Jets paid all this money this year on FAs and will still go with Clemens. They don't know what they have with Clemens and they don't know what they have with Sanchez. I can't believe that they won't start Sanchez from game 1.

[ZANNI_1276]

As someone said, the best time to evaluate a draft is 3 years later...Anyone want to do the top 10 picks of '06 with me (and the rest of the 1st round if you feel like it?)

I'll take stab and throw a couple of names out too from the 2006 - just hypothetically, just to show you that it is not just the overall talent of the player drafted that needs to be taken in consideration.

In other words a lot of talent and a lot of luck with who takes you is pretty much what you are banking on to be a good player.

This is why forecasting the player is such a crap shoot. Would they have busted too? Was it coaching? Was it pressure from a big contract? Was it overvalued hype by the talking heads like Kiper and Mcshay? Don't know but worth the conversation maybe.

1 HOU Keep Mario Williams there he is A +. Funny because this one cost Casserly his job because he didn't go with the popular "can't miss difference maker" Reggie Kardashian.

2. NO - Reggie Bush. D. When healthy he is pretty good but worth the 2nd key is when healthy but aside from a few games has not been the difference make as advertised. Maurice Jones Drew (2nd rounder) has been a stellar RB in the league.

3. TEN - Vince Young - F. I am sure there is little debate. How would have Jay Cutler (11th overall) looked at TEN here at 3? Or how would have Matt Leinhart's career have been if he ended up at 3?

4. NYJ DeBrickshaw Fergeson - I give him a B-. But what about 2 time pro bowler OT Marcus McNeill (2nd rounder)?

5. GB - Aj Hawk - C. Good player not great. Demeco Ryans (2nd rounder) has played all over the field for HOU, inside, outside and in Hawaii.

6. SF - Vernon Davis. D. I am still hopeful but both Owen Daniels and Tony Scheffler were available in later rounds if you were looking at TE.

7. OAK - Michael Hough - F. Was it the system? The coaching? The player? A combination of all of the above? Antonio Cromartie a few picks down the way is having quite the career.

8. BUF - Whitner - C. Not bad but not great. A compensatory 6th rounder Antoine Bethea is a perennial pro bowler.

9. DET - Ernie Sims. B+. Keep him, hell of a ball player.

10. ARZ - Matt Lienhart. INC. Not sure if can or can't. But tell me Haloti Nagta wouldn't look great on anyone’s Defense...

Point is it is easy to call a guy bust. Even easier to go back three years and later and say "could'a would'a or should'a" but for a player to succeed it takes so much more than just individual talent.

How would the substituted picks have performed in the place of some of the guys who were orginally drafted when adding presure, perhaps poorly run/coached organizations or perhaps the lack of a supporting cast. Such as Marcus McNeill, is he really a better T than Fergeson? Charger offense has been a little more flashy and he has been blocking for LT. Would Marcus be as succesful in NY if they flipped and Fergeson was in SD? Don't know but it is an interesting thought isn't it?

It takes the perfect storm of being in the right system, playing with the right guys, having a great staff coach you being extremely talented with the desire to succeed.

So when we are talking about these guys, though some have some truly unreal talent you need to look at the character, where they are going, who are they playing with and what is the organizations recent history with developing talent. Guys who pick at the top ALL of the time (like my guys CLE), well there is a reason for that and organizations like IND, PIT, PHI and NE are always picking on the bottom end. Not only do they recognize talent, but they know how to develop it. That is the big key when we are talking about evaluating the talent of the guys drafted. Still fun to speculate but more to it than just looking at the player - need to look at the forest rather than just the one tree.

[Stego]

I don't think we have any idea who did what. But there is promise and hope in the NFL draft.

And that makes it a lot of fun.

[ZANNI_1276]

I don't think we have any idea who did what. But there is promise and hope in the NFL draft.

And that makes it a lot of fun.

Amen. For some of us it is the only day we can be positive. At least those of us outside the Oakland area. You just take it all with a grain o'salt thats all and hope some how the new guys can contribute and make your team better.

[Stego]

I speak of my kin referenced in more detail upthread. Safety, Oregon State. #44.

A big grats to him!

[Prince of the North]

Are the reporters ever going to talk about something other than character issues with the Bengals?

Mexal,

I don't remember who said "winning is the best deodorant" but he was right! Just wait until your Bengals start winning a few games with these "character issue" guys and suddenly they won't have character issues anymore ;)

To me, they're not even that big character risks. I mean, not all "red flags" are created equal.

Jaime L,

Yes, I think a great deal depends on what sort of situation a player is coming into. What kind of locker room is it? Is it a stable program, etc.? The annoying Trent Dilfer said that getting the big contract "makes guys more of what they were before they got the money." I'm not sure I agree. At least, not in all cases. I'm sure we can all think of cases where players who were tagged as having "character issues" turned things around upon entering the NFL.