More police fun

[Greywolf2375]

Yes I have. Post # 268.

http://www.sfgate.co.../MNFQ1MP92G.DTL

Police are almost twice as likely to beat their wives and girlfriends.

Any idea where the data for that comes from? It would be interesting to see if they truly did apples to apples comparisons. Not to mention, saying that the rate is almost double is just incorrect - anything above 0% in any measure is horrific just to be clear - but 40% is not double 25%.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Any idea where the data for that comes from? It would be interesting to see if they truly did apples to apples comparisons. Not to mention, saying that the rate is almost double is just incorrect - anything above 0% in any measure is horrific just to be clear - but 40% is not double 25%.

40 is almost twice 25.

I looked up one of the people quoted in the article and she seems to have some relevant data

http://www.dwetendorf.com/AOP_Wetendorf.htm

[kungtotte]

All domestic abuse is under-reported, Tormund.

[Shryke]

Makes much more sense. Also seems entirely reasonable to me.

Bones, your objection is understandable, but last 4th of July I saw a fucking D.A.R.E. hummer in my local parade. Police brutality is getting worse.

Speaking of which, I think Tormund's post in that other thread was right. The police are being militarized, so instead of the military becoming the police, the police are becoming the military. Any time that line is blurred, civil liberties are in jeopardy.

I was trying to make a point about that last page with the links on no-knock entries and such.

A big reason for the militarization of the police is all that bullshit war-on-terror funding that is going around. Start a SWAT team in a town of 5k people in Montana and you can get a ton of money for your local economy.

Of course, the rise itself was originally due to the war-on-drugs.

[Atreides]

Although this is pretty much the opposite of most of this thread, I'd still say it falls under the category of "police fun". Long story short, a cop takes on the case of construction workers who are being harassed by a mysterious banana thrower, and ends up arresting a middle aged money market managed who thought that it was just a funny joke.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

http://www.commercia...ar-prison-term/

This guy actually got (rightly) punished, but I had to throw this out there as the weirdest thing I've read in a while.

Benjamin, 47, who shot himself in the stomach and reported that a dark-complexioned Hispanic man was responsible, pleaded guilty to five criminal charges and was hoping for probation.

"Everyone was hoping and praying for you," Criminal Court Judge Paula Skahan said, recounting the community concern and the police dragnet after the shooting. "It was all a lie. God help any male Hispanic who fit the description and got picked up.... It's just absolutely outrageous."

One investigator said Benjamin also offered money to a drug dealer nicknamed "Muscle" to shoot him, Benjamin, or to shoot the boyfriend of a 17-year-old girl to whom he was attracted. Neither was shot, but Benjamin successfully enlisted help to fire multiple shots into a home on Salem where the girl, the boyfriend and several people were staying...

...Benjamin pleaded guilty last month to solicitation to commit first-degree murder, delivering a controlled substance to a minor, making a false offense report, reckless endangerment with a dangerous weapon and providing a handgun to a juvenile, a misdemeanor.

[Trebla]

Damn, this happened in my neck of the woods...

http://www.myfoxchic...mart-20120208?g

Oswego, Ill. - Kendall County Sheriff's Deputy Craig French is under investigation, accused of waving a gun in a Walmart in Oswego during an argument with a man and his pregnant wife.

The argument happened on Sunday afternoon, when Jason Thurmond and his wife, who is nine months pregnant, were shopping for their Super Bowl party.

Thurmond stepped out of line to grab the eggs, which he had forgotten, and when he came back, he saw French arguing with his wife.

"I could see that my wife was upset," he said. "Her face was flustered. I saw a man in her face yelling at her and so as I approached I heard the guy saying, 'Are you slow? Do you not know how to count? You're holding up all these people in the line?'"

Then Thurmond said that French got even more aggressive, in the middle of the store, which was packed.

"He was like, 'What, are you guys on welfare?'" Thurmond said. "I'm like, 'Look, if you're that impatient, sir, get out and get in another line.' And he went back to verbally assaulting and harassing my wife."

Thurmond says the verbal assaults escalated and French came at him, so Thurmond pushed him away. That's when French pulled out a gun.

"He took a couple steps back and I'm looking at him and he's fumbling and he pulls out a gun, and I'm like, 'Whoa!'"

Other shoppers spotted the gun and started screaming and running.

"People thought he was holding up the cashier because he was waving the gun and hadn't displayed any credentials. The cashier took off," Thurmond said.

No one was hurt, but Thurmond was the only one arrested -- for misdemeanor battery for shoving an officer. Thurmond didn't even know the man was with law enforcement.

The Kendall County Sheriff's Department said it has launched an internal investigation to determine if the deputy's actions are consistent with the rules and regulations of the Sheriff's Office.

[Reposado]

And your well thought out alternative is...

everyone having the same rights?

here's an interesting case, where the only crime the assault victim was charged with was "failure to obey"

yep, that's a law on the books. we all have a duty to obey our blue-shirt overlords

http://houstonfreethinkers.com/all-news/79-local-news/2192-for-immediate-release-hpd-assaults-members-of-the-houston-free-thinkers-video

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

No one was hurt, but Thurmond was the only one arrested -- for misdemeanor battery for shoving an officer. Thurmond didn't even know the man was with law enforcement.

The basic laws in most states boil down to this: if an officer rapes you while "arresting" you, it is your legal obligation to lie back and think of England. If you resist, it is a crime.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

BaelorB,

Wow, just wow. The officer cocking the shotgun is way over the top. I'm glad that was filmed. To those who say we should not have the right to resist police acting unlawfully I direct you to BaelorB's link.

[mcbigski]

So I was reminded yesterday of the case where the town refused to hire someone as a police officer because he scored too highly on an IQ test. As least the silver lining there is that the cops won't be bright enough in that town for the real devious sorts of crime, just the typical petty abuses of authority.

[Serious Callers Only]

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SCO,

Where were those videos taken and where can I see the rest?

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

That is part of a larger film called "The Largest Street Gang in America"

- contains the start of the footage from SCO's link

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tormund,

I just finished watching that whole movie. Wow. I love the officers refusing to arrest the other officer for DUI. Yes, looking out for our safety. I also was shocked by how little the officer who beat the bartender while off duty was charged with and the cops beating the group of businessmen.

This is out of control.

[Sturn]

What the hell? Police need to be held to the standard every other citizen is held to. That this doesn't always happen needs to be addressed.

I completely agree, and believe it or not I'm a cop/popo/leo/dickhead/ass/whatever else I've been called when being stereotyped by the actions of a corrupt few. I thought only cops did the stereotyping. :) My thoughts below if interested.

Why Corruption?

The obvious one is power. I haven't read every single post above, but I'm sure someone else has power issues covered. I'll cover another angle that might not be obvious - brotherhood corruption.

There IS a strong sense of brotherhood amongst LEO's. The reason it develops is a long discussion for another thread. That sense of brotherhood can be very strong, similar to the "brothers in arms" of armed forces. Day after day dealing with crap together makes strong bonds. I recently had a co-worker shot and killed in the line of duty. Not a personal friend, a work friend, but it still hit me like losing a close family member. That kind of family bond can lead to the corruption of the officer turning away when he sees his "brother" do something wrong, just like a real family member often will cover up crimes for their kin. When a mother covers for his criminal son it's expected. When a cop covers for his "brother" cop it should also be expected, but also very wrong.

Am I trying to make an excuse? No of course not. I'm trying to explain why it happens.

Equal Punishment

Any officer committing a crime should be punished to the SAME extent as any other citizen in addition to being fired if appropriate for what he has done (assault = fired and criminal charges, forgot his seatbelt = reprimanded). Not more criminal punishment, not less.

I shouldn't gain any rights/protections by donning a badge AND I shouldn't give up any rights/protections either.

The former obviously can happen and seems to be the reason for the 17 pages of this thread. From personal experience, I've seen the "gains" happen in the form of officers getting out of simple traffic infractions that perhaps a citizen wouldn't. I've been pulled over for speeding in other jurisdictions and have never been given a ticket if the officer figured out I was also LEO. My sense of morality has led me to make a point to never mention I'm a cop if I'm pulled over, even if it means I get a ticket. Probably not a common practice amongst other cops I must admit. I once got pulled over for speeding and didn't "badge" the officer, expecting a ticket. I happened to be wearing a "Stop Stick" shirt I got as a reward for nabbing a car thief. The officer figured out I was a cop, asked me why I didn't tell him, then said, "Speed all you want". It's difficult for an officer to give another officer a fine, just like it would be difficult for me to give my mom a ticket if I found her speeding. Does anyone actually expect me to do that? Yes the 100% correct thing to do would be to slap any family member, friend, or co-worker a cop sees speeding with a ticket, but cops are human so that probably doesn't happen much.

In around two decades of being an LEO, I've never once seen any gains/protections against more heinous crimes such as the assault/rape mentioned above. Not where I work. Infractions, sure, actual crimes, even petty ones, being ignored? Never seen it happen.

The headlines and Google searches can bring up lots of results I'm sure for other departments, and the officer should be fired for such along with criminal action. Common? I completely disagree from my personal experience. I think the attention cop corruption gets leads to people thinking most cops are corrupted, not just a few. There is of course more chatter about bad cops via word of mouth or internet, because that is juicy stuff. I don't see many folks going on forums to talk about how a cop pulled them over and treated them nicely. Good cops get little attention, bad cops get it all. So, I think the stereotype of cops being corrupted is highly inflated to the average citizen.

Most would think the later, losing rights/protections when you don a badge, doesn't happen. It does. There once was a policy at my department that said I had no right to an attorney and no right to remain silent if I was being questioned of a crime. Seriously. So being hired at my department meant I didn't get Miranda protections like the average citizen. Seriously. I've watched a judge hand down a sentence to a drug-dealing cop (first offense) sending him to prison for a few years while saying, "Equal justice". In all my years I had never seen that judge give more then probation (smack on the hand) to a first time drug-dealer. I wanted that cop to go to prison actually, he had made us all look bad, but I want the other first time drug dealers to suffer the SAME punishment.

Ok fire away. But please don't "profile" me because of my chosen profession.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sturm,

I have several friends who are LEO. Not all LEOs are bad. I'm simply disturbed by things like thw video of the off duty officers when they've beaten the shit out of four guys. The fact that thwy were not found criminally liable does not excuse the officers Who arrived to respond and then left because the off-duty officers told them to leave. How is that justified?

[TerraPrime]

Sturm,

I have several friends who are LEO. Not all LEOs are bad. I'm simply disturbed by things like thw video of the off duty officers when they've beaten the shit out of four guys. The fact that thwy were not found criminally liable does not excuse the officers Who arrived to respond and then left because the off-duty officers told them to leave. How is that justified?

I think you will find that Sturm is not arguing that such abuses of powers are justified. He's stating that he has not come across any, in his experience. He has also stated that officers who break the law should be prosecuted the same as when someone who's not an officer breaks the law.

So, really, you're asking him to justify why he'd support something he said he wouldn't support. Rather pointless, don't you think?

[Sturn]

Sturm,

I'm simply disturbed by things like thw video of the off duty officers when they've beaten the shit out of four guys. The fact that thwy were not found criminally liable does not excuse the officers Who arrived to respond and then left because the off-duty officers told them to leave. How is that justified?

If those are the complete and irrefutable facts of the incident, it isn't justified and there should be lots of arrests and reduction in city payroles. Simple.

So, really, you're asking him to justify why he'd support something he said he wouldn't support. Rather pointless, don't you think?

Thanks. I'm well experienced though in someone not listening to what I actaully said. Get it at work and home. :)

[Balefont]

I think you will find that Sturm is not arguing that such abuses of powers are justified. He's stating that he has not come across any, in his experience. He has also stated that officers who break the law should be prosecuted the same as when someone who's not an officer breaks the law.

So, really, you're asking him to justify why he'd support something he said he wouldn't support. Rather pointless, don't you think?

Wow, Terra just cast a "Leading-Question-to-Lure-You-Into-a-Debate" null-spell that preemptively deterred the "Opportunity-To-Make-Self-Righteous-Declarations" which was the next obvious move.

:P