The Great Hunt

[Guest Nadine]

Aye, I've read it. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of...you choose yellow for your ajah then you fall in love with some tasty dude and want to be Green ajah so you can bond him (ofc, this requires you already have one warder). Or maybe you chose White, but your logic tells you that to save the world you should be out there gentling men and you want to be Red.

*shrug* Just a random, I wonder.

[Shryke]

Your probably stuck. It's a very rigid system and I think has only been getting more rigid since the Breaking.

I also get the impression, as pointed out earlier in that quote, that young girls are "culled" early and given a person from the Ajan to watch over you and brought up within the Ajah and taught to conform to it's standards and such. They indoctrinate those bitches!

[TerraPrime]

I'm re-reading WoT, too, because I was a bit bored and it's been a while.

Question from EotW:

The after-effects of touching the source was pretty obvious in Rand's case. Does RJ explain later what makes the difference between touching the source by accident and knowing how to? What is it about accidental channeling that leads to those symptoms?

Also, for men, isn't that doubling the effects of the taint? You'll go mad from the taint, but since the breaking, no men had been formally trained in the use of the power. So even if there were no taint to saidin, you'll probably still go mad just from the lack of training.

[Rhom]

I'm re-reading WoT, too, because I was a bit bored and it's been a while.

Question from EotW:

The after-effects of touching the source was pretty obvious in Rand's case. Does RJ explain later what makes the difference between touching the source by accident and knowing how to? What is it about accidental channeling that leads to those symptoms?

Also, for men, isn't that doubling the effects of the taint? You'll go mad from the taint, but since the breaking, no men had been formally trained in the use of the power. So even if there were no taint to saidin, you'll probably still go mad just from the lack of training.

I don't recall what symptoms you are referring to. At the end of the first book when Rand is actually channeling from The Eye of the World, he is actually using pure Saidin somehow liquified into a pool. There was no taint involved. His memory of using the pure Saidin from The Eye is one of the ways he is sure that Saidin is clean later. IIRC.

I'm not sure where I read it (White Book maybe?) but its pretty much guaranteed that every male will go insane from touching the source. Wilder or trained adept really doesn't matter. You see it with the Asha'man in the books. Some start showing symptoms almost immediately and others have no visible signs at all.

[Shryke]

I'm re-reading WoT, too, because I was a bit bored and it's been a while.

Question from EotW:

The after-effects of touching the source was pretty obvious in Rand's case. Does RJ explain later what makes the difference between touching the source by accident and knowing how to? What is it about accidental channeling that leads to those symptoms?

The accidental part. They are doing it in an uncontrolled manner. Like someone who's never driven before trying to drive for the first time. You don't do it properly and that leads to weird symptoms.

Also, for men, isn't that doubling the effects of the taint? You'll go mad from the taint, but since the breaking, no men had been formally trained in the use of the power. So even if there were no taint to saidin, you'll probably still go mad just from the lack of training.

The weird stuff in the first book is all due to Rand unconsciously channeling.

[Gerold Hightower]

The weird stuff in the first book is all due to Rand unconsciously channeling.

Yes, Rand channeled before the EotW incident. That means "Lews Therin" was already around though he didn't speak yet.

[Shryke]

Yes, Rand channeled before the EotW incident. That means "Lews Therin" was already around though he didn't speak yet.

Huh?

Rand channeled unconsciously, just like any Wilder.

[Gerold Hightower]

Huh?

Rand channeled unconsciously, just like any Wilder.

Not at the EotW. I have to go with the summaries at Encyclopaedia WoT as I don't own copies of the books anymore but apparently Rand Skimmed. I think it's a fair assumption that he couldn't have bested Aginor if he had just been some untrained "wilder." Just as with his his other fights with the Forsaken, "Lews Therin" took over and saved the day.

[Shryke]

Not at the EotW. I have to go with the summaries at Encyclopaedia WoT as I don't own copies of the books anymore but apparently Rand Skimmed. I think it's a fair assumption that he couldn't have bested Aginor if he had just been some untrained "wilder." Just as with his his other fights with the Forsaken, "Lews Therin" took over and saved the day.

Nope. It's pretty standard stuff for most channelers. All the strong channelers that have been popping up have invented new weaves or instinctively rediscovered old ones.

It's nothing to do with LTT, unless you think he's in Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne's heads. Among others.

[Poobah]

Most notably Aviendha Traveled, and did so with a different weave to the one Egwene later on learned from Moghedien in like... book 5? She definitely didn't have LTT. It was just like acting on impulse.

[fionwe1987]

I'm re-reading WoT, too, because I was a bit bored and it's been a while.

Question from EotW:

The after-effects of touching the source was pretty obvious in Rand's case. Does RJ explain later what makes the difference between touching the source by accident and knowing how to? What is it about accidental channeling that leads to those symptoms?

Like Shryke said, its uncontrolled reactions. We know for a fact that channeling causes physiological changes. Aging is slowed down, and if you have wrinkles, they're removed, etc. You also get some better disease resistance and all sorts of other benefits.

It seems clear to me then, that when you channel uncontrolled, these physiological changes occur in a haywire manner. So, you get the wasting sickness, fevers, psychological imbalance, etc.

Also, for men, isn't that doubling the effects of the taint? You'll go mad from the taint, but since the breaking, no men had been formally trained in the use of the power. So even if there were no taint to saidin, you'll probably still go mad just from the lack of training.

It isn't about training, it is about conscious use of the Power. Anyway, one man in four is going to survive anyway. This is probably the source for False Dragons.

But you're right that for those who never gain control over their channeling, the sickness and the taint will act together.

Most notably Aviendha Traveled, and did so with a different weave to the one Egwene later on learned from Moghedien in like... book 5? She definitely didn't have LTT. It was just like acting on impulse.

Yup. Nynaeve also made Balefire, and invented some of her own Healing weaves unconsciously. Egwene learned to tie weaves on her own as well.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Shryke

Yeah, that was what I think, too, but I was hoping there's a more mechanistic explanation that I had forgotten, like part of learning how to channel is to protect yourself from the power, etc. I just don't recall that issue being addressed directly. It was just stated that if you don't get trained, you die.

Re: Rhom

I don't recall what symptoms you are referring to.

After their initial escape from Two Rivers, when they stopped at Baerlon, Rand was acting funny. That's because (we found out later) that he had channeled to help Bela during the flight. Next, when he was chased by a Trolloc onto Bale Domon's ship, the sail thing flapped around and knocked the trolloc out. Rand thought it was luck, but 4 days (I think) later he was acting recklessly in climbing up the mast and jumping down. Those are all symptoms that Moiraine had described to Nynaeve as signs of someone touching the power. Nynaeve also said that she remembered having a fever after she helped Egwene through the breakbone fever, and that two other Wisdoms in training (one for sure who can listen to the wind) had died in the way that Moiraine described.

[Guest Nadine]

Adding to that: Morriane stated that the reactions to channeling begin to happen closer and closer to the act of channeling over time, then the person is done for.

[MaesterLuwin]

http://www.siliconcerebrate.com/faqs/WOTFA...and-op-syn.html

But yeah, I don't remember any other characters experiencing something like this. I suppose it only happens to characters who begin channeling subconsciously, without training. So I guess Nynaeve went through something like this?

[Guest Nadine]

Yes, when Morriane explains that Nyv can channel and that Eugene *must* be trained (or maybe when Nyv tracks the party to the inn in Baerlon), Nyv remembers when the previous Wisdom bundled her off to bed because she had fever and chills. IIRC, that happened after Nyv Healed Ewgene. She also remembered other Wisdom appretices dying.

[Gerold Hightower]

Rand had no channelling skill whatsoever at the EotW. He did some unconscious channelling now and then but nothing fancy. Even in book three had trouble finding the source, IIRC. But whenever he faced the Forsaken he could match them. The discrepancy is just too large. As for the girls, they didn't invent anything before they were fully trained and even then most of their inventions had been Moghedien's teaching.

[Lord Biff]

Aye, I've read it. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of...you choose yellow for your ajah then you fall in love with some tasty dude and want to be Green ajah so you can bond him (ofc, this requires you already have one warder). Or maybe you chose White, but your logic tells you that to save the world you should be out there gentling men and you want to be Red.

*shrug* Just a random, I wonder.

Forgive me for emerging from my lurking, but I'd say

SPOILER: From A Crown of Swords to the Present Day

Cadsuane (recall, for example, her unusual ability to find, gentle, and most importantly keep alive men who can channel, even though she's Green)

is a perfect example of somebody who demonstrates exactly what you theorize.

She's absolutely fearless, and frankly, she demonstrates what an Aes Sedai can achieve when she's not bathing herself in the bullshit of the Tower, the Ajahs, Aes Sedai "mystique" (witness the ending of New Spring, and many, many other examples), and general arrogance.

[fionwe1987]

Rand had no channelling skill whatsoever at the EotW. He did some unconscious channelling now and then but nothing fancy. Even in book three had trouble finding the source, IIRC. But whenever he faced the Forsaken he could match them. The discrepancy is just too large. As for the girls, they didn't invent anything before they were fully trained and even then most of their inventions had been Moghedien's teaching.

The only time he unconsciously "matched" a Forsaken was in the end of tDR, when he had Callandor in his hands and was battling in the World of Dreams. It isn't that unbelievable.

As for the girls, yes they did. Nynaeve was doing five power Healing in tDR, she used Balefire in tDR, Egwene invented tying off a weave as well as stilling. Elayne also made her first ter'angeal on her own with no help at all. Not to mention that Egwene figured out how to enter the World of Dreams, and later Travelling, all by herself.

[Guest Nadine]

Morianne tied off flows. It doesn't take a huge amount of imagination to think of knots.

Lord Biff, I believe that person is a friend of the dark and has been guided to male channelers to turn if possible and sever if not. ;) Oh, and they have ter'angrel that alert one to male channelers.

[Guest Nadine]

hmm, i need to gather my thoughts and make one post only! anyway, just ran across this gem and its what totally interests me. My favorite books are ones that have ancient history that concerns current day people. (Michelle West is a master of this.)

And down the clouds they rode, as though down a mountainside, the dead heroes of legend, bound to be called back by the Horn of Valere. Artur Hawkwing himself led, tall and hook-nosed, and behind came the rest, little more than a hundred. So few, but all those the Wheel would spin out again and again to guide the Pattern, to make legend and myth. Mikel of the Pure Heart, and Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask. He was said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side. Amaresu, with the Sword of the Sun glowing in her hands, and Paedrig, the golden-tongued peacemaker, and there, carrying the silver bow with which she never missed . .[/quote

I would be very surprised to find out Olver is not whatshisname...Birgette's soulmate. But the herald of end of ages and his sister...have they been reborn? I am guessing yes. But, if the heroes are reborn, then they can't answer the Call of the Horn. How many heroes bound to the wheel will show up at the Last Battle?