Birthers... one more time

[Lord Mord]

Ormond,

Oh, gee, Obama's mother was born in KANSAS. There has never been any question as to her citizenship. All the readily published biographical material about her has her living in the USA for the full first 19 years of her life before her son was born.

You sound upset. It was just a question.

As for Taitz, I don't think she is crazy; I'm pretty sure she's just conniving. As with all these kinds of political hatchet jobs, I would really like there to be a kind of ... game show setting. Nationally televised program. A moderator marks every point, and then every counterpoint -- for the most part, there should not, in the first round, be any direct attempts at discrediting opposing points. Instead of, "the birth certificate offered is a fake," the first round should only consist of, "No valid birth certificate has been offered." Mythical "shoulds" are also not evidence. You cannot say, "Oh, well, if the document really did exist, it should be really easy to produce." Too subjective. Who says it should be easy to produce? Who gets to say what is easy?

Even the burden of proof is not evidence. That kind of thing should be up to the moderator only. "Please remember, viewers at home, that initially the burden of proof falls to the White House to establish Mr. Obama is eligible, even though, you know, several dozens of institutions designed to keep a check on this among other things, have already vetted him on this issue long before any of these other losers had ever heard of his name."

Then, once the birth certificate is offered, it becomes, "Please remember, viewers at home, that with the birth certificate in hand it is up to the birthers to absolutely and beyond all reasonable doubt discredit it. Otherwise we're basically just jerking off here to our personal political extremist fantasies."

Now, I'm not saying, of course, but I'm pretty sure that at this point the show would stall out. The birther rep would keep blathering and then get cut off, and the mod would have to say, "So ... you are still not able to definitely discredit this valid legal document? I mean, you've offered a lot of bullshit speculation, which I call bullshit only because you've zero evidence to substantiate any of it, but the document itself, you can't actually assail it except to say, 'I think it's ugly and somewhat inconvenient.' ... Is that right?"

[Ran]

Don't know why I'm bothering, but regarding the "Kenyan birth certificate", pretty thorough takedown here. It's a forgery, and apparently one intended to discredit those who take it as a legitimate document (47O44 indeed, heh).

[The Progressive]

I bet somebody/Obama operatives pulled a hoax on Taitz in an attempt to discredit the "Birthers" movement.

[Lord Mord]

Ah, yes ... And just to make sure that I haven't left anything out that was addressed to me ...

The SSN hubbub to which I referred earlier is that, apparently, the first three digits of BHO's, which should designate his birth state as Hawaii, instead designate a birth state of Connecticut. And there is more ... Now, I'm not at all clear how this second part is supposed to be apparent, but apparently there is also information about this particular SSN which necessarily ascribe it to a person who, if still alive, would have to be over a hundred years old.

I want to be clear I am not endorsing this point of view, but I should like to know why it is idiotic before I dismiss it entirely.

[Ormond]

Ah, yes ... And just to make sure that I haven't left anything out that was addressed to me ...

The SSN hubbub to which I referred earlier is that, apparently, the first three digits of BHO's, which should designate his birth state as Hawaii, instead designate a birth state of Connecticut. And there is more ... Now, I'm not at all clear how this second part is supposed to be apparent, but apparently there is also information about this particular SSN which necessarily ascribe it to a person who, if still alive, would have to be over a hundred years old.

I want to be clear I am not endorsing this point of view, but I should like to know why it is idiotic before I dismiss it entirely.

I certainly wouldn't believe the information about his SSN being from CT or that it could only belong to someone over 100 without some good evidence, which you certainly have not provided by just making the claim.

But the first three digits of your SSN do NOT designate the state you were born in; they designate the state you were living in when you applied for your SSN. Today most people get SSNs when they are infants, because the IRS now requires parents to have SSNs for any child they declare as a dependent on their income tax. Until about 20 years ago, however, that was not the case, and most people did not get SSNs until they had their first paying job. I did not have a SSN until I was 16 and got my first summer job while I was in high school.

I don't know if Obama had a paying job while he was in high school or college. He may have had scholarships which meant he didn't have to work. His first paying job after college was for Business International Corporation in New York City. IF he lived in Connecticut and commuted to New York that year, his SSN probably should have been issued in Connecticut. I can't find information on short notice on whether or not he ever had a part time job before his work for BIC, or where his residence was while he was working for them, but a Connecticut SSN might not be implausible at all.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Not to mention that the source of that report, sent by a PI to Taitz, lists about 15 different SSNs for Obama. It's a list of public records under the name Barack Obama, some of which are very likely for the man who is now PotUS, but some which are very probably fake. (123 White House, Irvine CA?) Others are for people who just share his name: Bob Obama, Betty Obama, Bertrand Obama.... Even if his SSN does start with 042, Ormond's already explained how that can be, since it's nothing to do with place of birth, or even necessarily residence at the time of application.

[Lord Mord]

Ormond,

I certainly wouldn't believe the information about his SSN being from CT or that it could only belong to someone over 100 without some good evidence, which you certainly have not provided by just making the claim.

I don't believe the claim -- but it seems to me that outright dismissive behavior requires an explanation, which you've provided, and I thank you.

For example, suppose that I'm trying to figure out why my digital watch works, and somebody says there is a sentient being that lives inside my watch personally interested in keeping perfect time, I feel I am sufficiently well-informed about the basic patterns sentient life has taken to date, to say nothing of my rough knowledge of industrial methods, to be dissuaded out of hand that the position has any merit. Contrariwise, I know that a bureaucracy like the SSA is bound to fuck up in hundreds or even thousands of erstwhile significant ways every day. I know that politicians, even when a perfectly innocent, inevitable mistake of this kind is at hand, will move heaven and earth to cover themselves up in order to avoid even the appearance of any impropriety. I know that politicians of every stripe are not normally motivated by anything but self-interest and delusion. I balance that against the virulence of the particular pests peddling this filth and the generally neutral quality I perceive of Obama's own political-animal-instinct, and I am left, not with any deep questions about his legitimacy for office, but with some nagging doubts about one little issue. Doubts which you've pretty much eradicated in the rest of your post, so, again, I thank you.

But the first three digits of your SSN do NOT designate the state you were born in; they designate the state you were living in when you applied for your SSN. Today most people get SSNs when they are infants, because the IRS now requires parents to have SSNs for any child they declare as a dependent on their income tax. Until about 20 years ago, however, that was not the case, and most people did not get SSNs until they had their first paying job. I did not have a SSN until I was 16 and got my first summer job while I was in high school.

Cool. I had not known that.

I don't know if Obama had a paying job while he was in high school or college. He may have had scholarships which meant he didn't have to work. His first paying job after college was for Business International Corporation in New York City. IF he lived in Connecticut and commuted to New York that year, his SSN probably should have been issued in Connecticut. I can't find information on short notice on whether or not he ever had a part time job before his work for BIC, or where his residence was while he was working for them, but a Connecticut SSN might not be implausible at all.

Sure. Makes perfect sense.

My source for the information was Taitz. She may be untrustworthy, but it struck me as improbable that she would say a thing that didn't have some significance of fact, if not of relevance. And yet I saw her at the time on Colbert, where all the details of her position except this one were directly refuted and ridiculed. Where there is an absence of refutation, even if I am hardly convinced that anyone should care, I think you can understand why I would be curious.

=============================

EFHK,

Thank you for your follow-up. She also mentioned something about 15 SSNs, but of course she put the opposite spin on it, that it was evidence of Obama obfuscating his SSN, instead of "we fucked up," which appears to be rather the case. A possibility I never doubted in the least.

[Ken Stone]

I don't believe the claim -- but it seems to me that outright dismissive behavior requires an explanation, which you've provided, and I thank you.

For example, suppose that I'm trying to figure out why my digital watch works, and somebody says there is a sentient being that lives inside my watch personally interested in keeping perfect time, I feel I am sufficiently well-informed about the basic patterns sentient life has taken to date, to say nothing of my rough knowledge of industrial methods, to be dissuaded out of hand that the position has any merit. Contrariwise, I know that a bureaucracy like the SSA is bound to fuck up in hundreds or even thousands of erstwhile significant ways every day. I know that politicians, even when a perfectly innocent, inevitable mistake of this kind is at hand, will move heaven and earth to cover themselves up in order to avoid even the appearance of any impropriety. I know that politicians of every stripe are not normally motivated by anything but self-interest and delusion. I balance that against the virulence of the particular pests peddling this filth and the generally neutral quality I perceive of Obama's own political-animal-instinct, and I am left, not with any deep questions about his legitimacy for office, but with some nagging doubts about one little issue. Doubts which you've pretty much eradicated in the rest of your post, so, again, I thank you.

We know 95% of everything that Orly has said has been a distortion, a misrepresentation, or an outright lie. We know that she is building her career on the back of this birther movement. At what point do you start to discount her? Hawaii Officials have stated that his BC is legitimate. The BC from Kenya has been proven to be a fake. At this point how is anyone really entertaining the idea that Orly has anything useful to say?

[Lord Mord]

ken stone,

We know 95% of everything that Orly has said has been a distortion, a misrepresentation, or an outright lie. We know that she is building her career on the back of this birther movement. At what point do you start to discount her? Hawaii Officials have stated that his BC is legitimate. The BC from Kenya has been proven to be a fake. At this point how is anyone really entertaining the idea that Orly has anything useful to say?

I suppose they might who don't already know that 95% of everything that Orly has said has been a distortion, a misrepresentation, or an outright lie. People such as I was when I asked my question. Not everyone starts out here already on a first-name-basis with the woman.

[Annelise]

Have you guys seen this video on who is a Birther on the Hill? Pardon if it's a repeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7Yw&c...bedded&fs=1

[Annelise]

Again, sorry if this is a repeat. I realize it's Daily Kos, but even given some anti right stat inflation there would still appear to be a schism in opinion between Dems + Indies and Republicans. With apparently even Republican congressmen and women hesitating on the question if not outright feeding the notion, it doesn't seem like this is going away soon.

Among Republicans, it's a much weaker plurality of only 42% who say Obama was born in the U.S., with 28% saying he was not, with a very high undecided number of 30%. Among Democrats, the number is 93%-4%, and among independents it's 83%-8%.

Another thing to point out is that Birtherism is heavily concentrated in the South. Only 47% of Southerners say Obama was born in the United States, 23% say he was not, and 30% aren't sure.

Oh yeah, that's my congressman refusing to answer in the above video, saying he's focused on healthcare issues.

[Ken Stone]

I suppose they might who don't already know that 95% of everything that Orly has said has been a distortion, a misrepresentation, or an outright lie. People such as I was when I asked my question. Not everyone starts out here already on a first-name-basis with the woman.

You said you saw her on Colbert where all the details of her position (except this one) were refuted. I guess everyone has a different threshold for when they place someone in the "crank" category and ignore them.

[DanteGabriel]

A judge has thrown out Orly Taitz' filing of the forged Kenyan birth certificate for procedural reasons:

There was no hearing on the merits of the motion, or of the purportedly Kenyan document; it was tossed on procedural grounds.

In the order, which can be downloaded in PDF form here, the judge says the motion was improperly filed "for the following reasons: Lacks proper notice; improper form and format; Counsel failed to identify her Cal. State Bar No.; description of motion conflicts or differs from that which counsel entered on Court's e-docket."

Yep, Orly Taitz, in addition to being a gibbering moron and a crank, is also a shitty lawyer.

Additionally, someone has anonymously claimed to have originated the faked Kenyan birth certificate (based on an old Australian birth certificate) as part of an effort to discredit the Birthers:

The claim was posted to FearlessBlogging.com, an anonymous blogging site, under the headline "Birthers Punk'd! Hoax Kenyan Birth Certificate." Included in the post is this text:

Fine cotton business paper: $11

Inkjet printer: $35

1940 Royal Model KMM manual typewriter: $10

2 Shilling coin: $1

Pilot Varsity fountain pen: $3

Punkin' the Birthers: Priceless

Also included in the post are links to four images. One shows a document that looks like the one Taitz filed, accompanied by a typewriter, a box of paper and a coin apparently used to create an official-looking seal. Another shows the paper balled up, and the fourth shows the crinkled and torn document with writing in marker on top of it that reads: "You've been punk'd!"

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?la...th_certificate/

[Watcher]

There was no hearing on the merits of the motion, or of the purportedly Kenyan document; it was tossed on procedural grounds.

In the order, which can be downloaded in PDF form here, the judge says the motion was improperly filed "for the following reasons: Lacks proper notice; improper form and format; Counsel failed to identify her Cal. State Bar No.; description of motion conflicts or differs from that which counsel entered on Court's e-docket."

Which the birther nutters will draw the obvious conclusion that the judge is protecting Obama but not allowing this document into court. Further they'll argue that Obama is trying to have it suppressed and start to draw up list of people who were killed as they heroically tried to pass on to Orliz. Because anyone looking at it on the internet can see it is an official document, despite never seeing a form from Kenya before. Just as they can tell that the birth cert that Obama produced was forged with only a single glance.

[Ser Hot Pie]

Good news everyone, now you too can have your very own Kenyan Birth Certificate:

http://kenyanbirthcertificategenerator.com/

Happy obfuscating!

[Crazydog7]

Have you guys seen this video on who is a Birther on the Hill? Pardon if it's a repeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7Yw&c...bedded&fs=1

Wow unshaven man holding a cardboard sign? I'm convinced.

[Annelise]

Evidently Lou Dobbs swings and misses.

On Monday night, Mr. O'Reilly wondered why Mr. Dobbs' critics bothered taking his bait. "I don't know why you guys are overreacting to this," said Mr. O'Reilly. "I mean, that's—come on, I mean, it's not true. Mr. Dobbs is trying to get ratings, trying to be provocative."

Sure enough, stirring up controversy and public outcry is a time-tested method in cable news of juicing your ratings (and, as we noted recently, Mr. Dobbs of late has been in dire need of something to stop his ratings slide).

But somewhat remarkably, to date, Mr. Dobbs' fascination with the president's "mysterious" birth origins has failed not only as a journalistic line of inquiry but also as a lure for ratings.

To wit: According to The Observer's analysis of Nielsen data, in recent weeks, as criticism of Mr. Dobbs has continued to go up, his ratings at CNN have continued to go down.

Mr. Dobbs' first began reporting on Obama birth certificate conspiracy theories on the night of Wednesday, July 15. In the roughly two weeks since then, from July 15 through July 28, Mr. Dobbs' 7 p.m. show on CNN has averaged 653,000 total viewers and 157,000 in the 25-54 demo.

By contrast, during the first two weeks of the month (July 1 to July 14) Mr. Dobbs averaged 771,000 total viewers and 218,000 in the 25-54 demo. In other words, Mr. Dobbs' audience has decreased 15 percent in total viewers and 27 percent in the demo since the start of the controversy.

rguably, interest in cable news has slumped across the board since early July when attention over Michael Jackson's death was still at a fever pitch.

But, that said, Mr. Dobbs' ratings over the past two weeks, during the height of the "birthers" controversy, are also down significantly compared to his overall numbers during the second quarter of 2009 when he averaged 769,000 total viewers and 222,000 in the 25-54 demo.

http://www.observer.com/2009/media/controv...ase-his-ratings

:cheers:

[IheartTesla]

More birther batshit craziness

Goldman Sachs runs the treasury.

Obama is a puppet.

There's a cemetery somewhere in Arizona where they just dug 30,000 fresh graves, which wait now for the revolution.

Baxter International — a major Obama contributor — developed a vaccine for bird flu that actually kills people.

Google Congressman Alcee Hastings and House Bill 684 and you'll see that they're planning at least six civilian labor camps.

Google an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about train cars with shackles.

The communist dictator Hugo Chavez way back in 2004 purchased the Sequoia software that runs our voting machines and the mainstream media won't report any of it — not even Fox because Saudi Arabia bought a percentage of Fox in 2007.

Wait, what? The last one doesnt make any sense.

Edit: To be fair this is ORLY craziness.

[Watcher]

Google an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about train cars with shackles.

Damn that San Francisco Chronicle for letting it's liberal elite master's plan slip out to it's pages. How can we run health care if us liberal can't even run our newspapers!

[sologdin]

House Bill 684 and you'll see that they're planning at least six civilian labor camps.

these fuckers are certainly up to something:

`(1) QUALIFIED PRESCRIPTION DRUG COVERAGE- The monthly beneficiary premium for qualified prescription drug coverage and access to negotiated prices described in section 1860D-2(a)(1)(A) to be charged under a medicare operated prescription drug plan shall be uniform nationally. Such premium for months in 2010 and each succeeding year shall be based on the average monthly per capita actuarial cost of offering the medicare operated prescription drug plan for the year involved, including administrative expenses.

that sounds nefarious indeed.

but this shit gets confusing:

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

(1) recognizes Howard University School of Law’s profound achievements and unwavering commitment to social justice for all people;

(2) encourages the continued dedication to the first-rate training of social engineers; and

(3) congratulates Howard University President, Sidney A. Ribeau, Ph.D., Howard University School of Law Dean, Kurt L. Schmoke, J.D., and the faculty, staff, students, and alumni of Howard Law School on the momentous occasion of its 140th anniversary.

equally diabolical, and quite obviously anti-white.

so, will the real HR 684 please stand up?

have the globalists outflanked themselves by offering up two innocuous HR 684s in error? does this error in bill filing reveal their haste to build a gulag for true patriots? thank the goodness that some one world government bureaucrats got their wires crossed on this one--otherwise, we'd have never known what they were planning (though the lack of knowledge wouldn't have stopped us otherwise from speculating about FEMA camps).

i sense that this provision of two HR 684 means that ms. taitz is on to something very serious: that the corrective labor camp statute is now a secret law enshrined by the shadow government, enforced by the shadow police, and adjudicated by the shadow judiciary.

don't say we didn't warn you when they bust down your door to snatch your guns and take your children to obama's healthcare sweat shops.

(ETA: of course, the real FEMA gulag bill is HR 645, which of course does not say what they think it says; it is not surprising that they can't even get the caption correct.)