Football thread 14

[Fireball07]

Robbie Keane is playing for Spurs, who are better than Celtic. He'd be stupid to go really. Although he isn't the brightest guy in the world, he's playing for a Spurs side who are playing well.

And the SPL has gone awful in the last few years, I'd say most Premiership sides would beat them, maybe even Portsmouth.

[Renasko]

Yeah, you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

[Mme Erzulie]

Looks like a few Romanian sides would beat them, at least...

[Fireball07]

Yeah, you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Lol, and that's why Celtic and Rangers have been terrible over the last 2-3 seasons.

I know lots of Celtic fans, and none of them think that they are a better side than Spurs atm. Or Sunderland for that matter.

[Renasko]

Eh, last time we played Spurs, we thrashed them with our second-string. Admittedly it was just a friendly, but I've got nothing else to compare our current team to them. But Spurs aren't all that great. They'll fall short of mediocrity, like they always do. And Sunderland...well, they're where they are because of the massive financial surgence, nothing else. No youth players in there team, had to rob a manager from another club and I'm still not expecting them to win anything in the future. Perhaps, a League Cup, if they're lucky.

[DJDonegal]

Robbie Keane is playing for Spurs, who are better than Celtic. He'd be stupid to go really. Although he isn't the brightest guy in the world, he's playing for a Spurs side who are playing well.

And the SPL has gone awful in the last few years, I'd say most Premiership sides would beat them, maybe even Portsmouth.

Correction. Keane is captaining a Spurs side playing quite well.

But Celtic can practically guarantee Europe every season for Keane. I agree though in that I think most Premiership sides could get a win at their own ground when playing Celtic. Celtic Park is a completely different kettle of fish, though.

[Jon AS]

Werder managed to throw away a two goal lead in Austria. Conceding goals when they should be well in control of a game is something they are getting really good at, particularly in Europe. Oh well, they still ought to make it out of the group stage.

In contrast, nobody expects anything from Hertha this season (except to achieve relegation) and they didn't disappoint this lack of expectation last night. Nothing new there then.

Hamburg managed a good and useful win against Celtic (nice combination by Zé Roberto and Berg for that goal). They were pretty much in control of the game except for a few minutes either side of the half-time break. Impressive considering their list of injuries, especially missing their two best strikers.

[Black Wizard]

And the SPL has gone awful in the last few years, I'd say most Premiership sides would beat them, maybe even Portsmouth.

The SPL always was awful. It attracted more attention when players like Gascoigne, Laudrup, Larsson, Numan, Hartson etc were playing for the Ugly sisters but since those two can no longer afford to buy players of that quality interest has waned.

Hopefully they don't leave the SPL because over the past couple of years the gap has lessened. This season Celtic's first XI isn't that much better than Dundee United's or Hibernian's first XI. If the league were restructured so that there were 16 teams playing each other twice every season then there would be infintely more competition for the top two places. While the chasing pack has to play the Ugly Sisters four times a season the gap won't be fully bridged.

[Alcibiades]

If Liverpool are to win this, they should look to what Caesar said on the HBO show "Rome":

Posca: Pompey's men outnumber you three to one, and what men you have are scared, hungry, and desperate.

Gaius Julius Caesar: That is the advantage we must press home.

Posca: I was not aware that irony had military usage.

Gaius Julius Caesar: We must win or die. Pompey's men have other options.

hehe

[Fireball07]

Eh, last time we played Spurs, we thrashed them with our second-string. Admittedly it was just a friendly, but I've got nothing else to compare our current team to them. But Spurs aren't all that great. They'll fall short of mediocrity, like they always do. And Sunderland...well, they're where they are because of the massive financial surgence, nothing else. No youth players in there team, had to rob a manager from another club and I'm still not expecting them to win anything in the future. Perhaps, a League Cup, if they're lucky.

Sunderland beat Celtic with out second-string so that's not really a good comparison. Spurs are a lot better than Celtic atm. Keane, Defoe, King, Lennon, Palacios...they'd walk into any SPL team.

And Sunderland are only there because of financial surgence? Jordan Henderson will be starting at the weekend, he's a youth player. Of the Celtic starting team, only McManus and McGeady are from the club, so that's not really a new comparison. They also robbed a manager from another club.....and if Sunderland were in Scotland, they'd challenge for the title too. The Premiership is a different class to the SPL atm, and not winning anything isn't that bad for Sunderland. 7th place in the league can get you Uefa Cup same as Celtic this year.

[Paddy]

They also robbed a manager from another club...

That's a strange accusation to make...

[Fireball07]

That's a strange accusation to make...

He did say it to me first. It's not really an accusation, but I was trying to point out that us getting Bruce is very similar to them getting Mowbray.

[Renasko]

I'll admit the two are closely related. My accusation was off, in that regard. Our conduct in dealing with other clubs is infinitely better than most clubs out there, though. We acted accordingly and in an outright manner, upon securing Mowbray as manager, and didn't irk West Brom, unduely.

Part of the reason why you'll never hear of us tapping up players, harassing refs, etc. We're a very well oiled club, that is run seasonably and intelligently. The only issue that ever gets raised is due to a small minority of our fans chants. Because of football having so many followers, it is not surprising that there's a few dickheads amongst every club.

And Sunderland are only there because of financial surgence? Jordan Henderson will be starting at the weekend, he's a youth player. Of the Celtic starting team, only McManus and McGeady are from the club, so that's not really a new comparison.

One player versus our...how many? In recent years, we have produced a fair number of talented professions that have went on to represent their national teams. Like David Marshall, Darren O'Dea, John Kennedy, Stephen McManus, Aiden McGeady, Shaun Maloney, etc. More will follow, as well, like Cilian Sheridan.

And we have recently started attracting other top Scottish trained professionals, like Scott Brown, Barry Robson and Mark Wilson. And for any Scot willing to debate whether it's for the good of Scottish football that we have all of the best players in the country, I say to you: just look at how those players raise their game to be of a Celtic standard, and go on to do Scotland proud by picking up invaluable experiance in competitions like the Champions League.

I believe the best way of comparing one club against another is by judging their youth academies and the players they produce from them. That is why in England, the likes of Man Utd, West Ham Utd, etc are all highly respected.

And lastly...Sunderland would be like the Hearts/Hibs of the SPL. :lol:

[Fireball07]

I'll admit the two are closely related. My accusation was off, in that regard. Our conduct in dealing with other clubs is infinitely better than most clubs out there, though. We acted accordingly and in an outright manner, upon securing Mowbray as manager, and didn't irk West Brom, unduely.

Part of the reason why you'll never hear of us tapping up players, harassing refs, etc. We're a very well oiled club, that is run seasonably and intelligently. The only issue that ever gets raised is due to a small minority of our fans chants. Because of football having so many followers, it is not surprising that there's a few dickheads amongst every club.

One player versus our...how many? In recent years, we have produced a fair number of talented professions that have went on to represent their national teams. Like David Marshall, Darren O'Dea, John Kennedy, Stephen McManus, Aiden McGeady, Shaun Maloney, etc. More will follow, as well, like Cilian Sheridan.

And we have recently started attracting other top Scottish trained professionals, like Scott Brown, Barry Robson and Mark Wilson. And for any Scot willing to debate whether it's for the good of Scottish football that we have all of the best players in the country, I say to you: just look at how those players raise their game to be of a Celtic standard, and go on to do Scotland proud by picking up invaluable experiance in competitions like the Champions League.

I believe the best way of comparing one club against another is by judging their youth academies and the players they produce from them. That is why in England, the likes of Man Utd, West Ham Utd, etc are all highly respected.

And lastly...Sunderland would be like the Hearts/Hibs of the SPL. :lol:

Grant Leadbitter, Ben Alnwick and Michael Gray are other Sunderland players who came up and performed pretty well, and if you're talking about Brown, Robson & Wilson, then look at players like Bardsley, Richardson, Campbell, Collins & Whitehead, who Sunderland have helped evolve into Prem-standard players.

Atm, Sunderland would comfortably beat Celtic. I'd say most of the Sunderland team would get in the celtic side.

McGeady is probably your best player and he would not get in ahead of Malbranque/Reid.

[Renasko]

Further proof of my message at the top of the window. I rest my case.

[Horus Ex Machina]

This Lyon win has to call into question the depth of the top sides in football. Liverpool is a shell without Torres and Gerrard.

Amazing. Hooray for Lyon! 2-1 at Anfield. Great for Ligue 1.

[Fireball07]

Further proof of my message at the top of the window. I rest my case.

Which one....maybe I have different browser settings. But if you think McGeady is better than Steed/Reid, then you are mistaken. On current form anyway, when they are possibly the best wing pairing in the Prem.

[mormont]

Our conduct in dealing with other clubs is infinitely better than most clubs out there, though.

Really? You think that the way Celtic behave when they want to sign players from other SPL clubs is honestly acceptable? Both of the Old Firm regularly tap-up players from other Scottish clubs without the slightest hint of embarrasment, safe in the knowledge that nobody has the power to take them to task for it. If Celtic behave better towards English clubs, it is out of self-interest.

As for not harassing refs... you are a Celtic supporter, so presumably you are well aware of the constant pressure on Scottish refererees from your fellow supporters, the media, a succession of club managers, players on the pitch, etc. I mean, Celtic are actually famous for it. When people talk about 'Celtic paranoia', that's what they're talking about - the quite open suggestion that has existed for more years than either of us have been alive that Scottish referees are guilty of conspiring against the club, despite copious evidence to the contrary. What do you call that if not harassment? The fact that it has been going on continually for years shouldn't mean it's forgotten about.

Celtic are a powerful club and they behave like other powerful clubs: badly.

And we have recently started attracting other top Scottish trained professionals,

Um, no. You have always done this, and normally (as I say) 'attracting' is a euphemism for 'tapping up'.

Both of the Old Firm are notorious for buying any decent player that the other SPL clubs develop at knock-down prices. They normally do this by illegally offering to double the player's wages, in the knowledge that the player's club can't match this even though it's small beans to them. The player is unsettled and the club is forced to sell. The prices Celtic have been offering for other SPL teams' players recently have been little short of ridiculously low. They don't care: the point is not to acquire the player, the point is to unsettle him. If the player winds up going to some Championship side instead, it's not a problem. Hey, he's not causing Celtic any more trouble, after all.

And for any Scot willing to debate whether it's for the good of Scottish football that we have all of the best players in the country, I say to you: just look at how those players raise their game to be of a Celtic standard, and go on to do Scotland proud by picking up invaluable experiance in competitions like the Champions League.

The trouble with this argument is that many of the Scots players the Old Firm acquire spend the majority of their time on the bench behind more expensive foreign imports, and so are lost to the national team altogether (cf: Derek Riordan, most recently,but there's a long, long list). Also, of the three you mention, all were in the national squad before they went to Celtic.

Finally, the reason Robbie Keane won't be going to Celtic for the foreseeable future is that he's currently earning significantly more than Celtic can possibly afford to pay him. That's why the current Old Firm teams are poor: they can't match English wages any more.

[Renasko]

As for not harassing refs... you are a Celtic supporter, so presumably you are well aware of the constant pressure on Scottish refererees from your fellow supporters, the media, a succession of club managers, players on the pitch, etc. I mean, Celtic are actually famous for it. When people talk about 'Celtic paranoia', that's what they're talking about - the quite open suggestion that has existed for more years than either of us have been alive that Scottish referees are guilty of conspiring against the club, despite copious evidence to the contrary. What do you call that if not harassment? The fact that it has been going on continually for years shouldn't mean it's forgotten about.

Celtic are a powerful club and they behave like other powerful clubs: badly.

That's the case with all refs, really. From country to country, league to league They have to worry about these things, no matter if it's Celtic or Stranraer. That the top clubs get identified as the pursecutors is just another case of their own success attracting notice to how they reach their achievements.

And it's in my experiance, too, that the powerful clubs acts shamelessly. My point was just that Celtic act better than most.

[Jon AS]

So, are Stoke better than Celtic then?