Tywin Lannister

[arek]

Hey all

topic says it all,

Tywin Lannister was a shit IMO (very few will argue with this I hope)

Elia & her children

Red Wedding

Tysha Gang rape

Saying the blood for the RW was on Walder Freys (none on his), saying Lorch was solely responsible for Rhaenys being stabbed to death over 50 times :ack:

I'm Glad he died a humiliating death, but I would have loved to read his reaction to hearing bout Dany & her dragons (especially considering his actions in ordering Elia & her childrens death meant their would be no forgiveness or pardon for him).

If Dany does arrive I can see her pardoning the Tully's, Tyrells, Starks (especially when Ser Barristan tells her how Ned tried to dissuard Robert from killing her). Stannis (if he still alive when she comes) she wont pardon I have a feeling considering he a Baratheon.

But I would have loved to see Tywin sweat when he realised how his actions 15 years ago could easily led to the ruin of his house.

On a side note, I find it ironic that most of the Great Houses who fought against the Targs in War of the Usurper are now in bad shape (Stark, Arryn, Baratheon & Tully), at the end of AFFC even House Lannister despite holding the iron throne now seem to be in a weak state.

[AquariumDrinker]

Forget Dany, I would liked to have seen his reaction to the Others.

[TrueMetis]

I'd have liked to seem him live to see Tyrion become lord of Casterly Rock and then not be executed because of Tyrions commitment to his family.

[Darzin]

Yeah I agree with Headwound I would have really liked to see what Twyin Lannister would have done, when the others become a credible threat.

[Talyn]

Yeah I agree with Headwound I would have really liked to see what Twyin Lannister would have done, when the others become a credible threat.

Same here but I would like to see Twyin's reactions to a lot of the things in the books. :D

[Hazel]

I would've liked to see Tywin's face after getting his ass handed to him by Robb in some battle in the Westerlands.

Robb looking down in the bloody aftermath of the battle upon his quivering, fallen foe, Grey Wind snarling at his side, and asking in a victorious tone, "Who's 'the boy' now, eh?".

Or his face right before getting a Northern sword across the kisser would've been nice, too.

[Rockroi]

Tywin Lannister was a shit IMO (very few will argue with this I hope)

Well, you asked....

Tywin was maybe the most important lord to peace and prosperity in the Seven Kingdoms. Without his abilities the Kingdoms had major problems.

Most notably, Tywin's father had let the Lannister rep become meaningless and the West was the laughingstock of the Seven Kingdoms. Tywin changed all that, raising erstwhile houses that became uppity. This brought him the attention of the KIng and he became Hand to Aerys II. Almost assuredly, no individual did more to keep Aerys' insanity in check and more to keep the realm flowing in gold than Tywin Lannister. IN the effect, the vast majority of Aerys' reign was relatively peaceful. When the Defiance at Duskendale occurred, Tywin was the one who set in motion all the gears to free the King and keep the realm rolling along.

When Tywin stopped being Hand, the realm stopped running. Aerys' insanity went full bloom and that was that. Without Tywin (who sat out most of the war), Aerys was fighting a hapless war with a string of losses. Once Aerys was slain, Tywin ended the war in the most efficient manner. He got his men inside KL and killed the King.

There has been much talk about killing the children. As stated, Tywin had no idea what the Mountain was at that time and its not like he gave the order "Now, make sure to rape the girl over and over, and bash the babe's head in. And then kill Elia." As Tywin states, he never gave Elia a second-thought (though he should have). Further (and this cannot be overstated) those children had to die no matter what and Robert, Ned, Tywin and Jon Aryyn all KNEW that. Its ripe hypocrisy for Ned and the others to actually claim that what Tywin did was distasteful! They could NOT have rouge Targaryens traipsing about. Boys and girls grow into men and women. And those men and women suddenly someday may want something call "Vengeance." It undermines who kingdoms and splits realms and causes rebellions. Everyone from Cat to Littlefinger recognizes the inherent instability that the old realm's children would bring.

In effect, its EASY for Ned and the like to blame Tywin for something they would have had to have done anyway. Or else their are just epically irresponsible leaders (then again, Ned DID tell his whole plan to Cersei so he may have been of the mind to do that, which again, says more about Ned's shortcomings than it does Tywin's).

Tywin propped Robert Baratheon up, and as Robert became the almost complete mess that he was, kept the realm with a steady supply of gold that Robert pissed through as quickly as he could. Regardless, Tywin became the authoritative power behind thr throne and with the exception of the Greyjoy rebellion, he helped keep the peace.

When the rebellion began, Tywin defended the throne and ended it in the most effective and efficient ways possible. The Red Wedding probably saved more lives than can be reasonably calculated. Its not Tywin's fault that those it cost were those who planned the worst ("What marriage pact?"). Tywin's opportunism saved many more deaths in many more places. And still, Tywin;s entire philosophy is, by farm the most likely to lead to lasting peace: 1) find your enemies, 2) utterly and completely destroy them by every means possible, and 3) after they are defeated, you help your enemies back to their feet. Someone must explain to me how that is bad.

Many people wanted Tywin to look the fool or get all hot and bothered by Tyrion kciking his ass in battle or Robb etc. Those are nice thoughts, but Tywin was able at ensuring that he was never in that type of position. That's how he rolled

I find what he did to Tysha to be terrible. Its awful. Oh well... The reader got some nice visions of Tywin dying while taking a poop, so most are satisfied (I actually consider it one of the poorest written chapters in the books, but to each their own). However, this guy knew what he was doing at all times; very little surprised him.

As far as Dany, that would have surprised EVERYONE. And what would the Tyrell's and the Riverlords and what was left of House Stark have all done? They would have all done the same thing "Send a message to Lord Lannister asking him ...." Without question. They all do that in one form or another.

[Ser Howsmelly]

Most notably, Tywin's father had let the Lannister rep become meaningless and the West was the laughingstock of the Seven Kingdoms. Tywin changed all that, raising erstwhile houses that became uppity.

*razing.

Re: Elia and the children.

Elia by herself was not a problem. She should not have been harmed. And, the children were young enough to be brainwashed/indoctrinated/exiled so although the most complete solution would have been to eliminate them it was not the ONLY solution that would have been available.

And what would the Tyrell's and the Riverlords and what was left of House Stark have all done? They would have all done the same thing "Send a message to Lord Lannister asking him ...." Without question. They all do that in one form or another.

Doubtful.

[Lord Varys]

Letting princes with a better claim survive was done before. Aegon V. did not kill his brother Aemon, nor (as far as we know) the children of his brothers Aerion and Daeron.

There might have been a certain need to remove male heirs; but there was no need at all to kill Rhaenys. Robert could have married her to his son, or to Renly. And babe Aegon could have become a royal ward. He never knew that he was the Heir Apparent to the Iron Throne for short time.

Tywin ordered Rhaenys's and Aegon's death simply because he wanted to buy himself into Robert's camp. That was just self preservation, or, to be more precise, an action to assure that House Lannister would keep his status as most powerful House in the Realm under the new regime.

Without the Sack of King's Landing, Jaime's kingslaying and Tywin's slaughter of Rhaegar's children, Jon Arryn would never have been able to convince Robert to marry Cersei Lannister.

And thus the Lannisters would have been marginalized under the new regime. Tywin might have been have to fear repercussions by the Throne, as his Frey-ish behaviour most likely could have been interpreted as loyalty to or sympathy for House Targaryen. And without Tywin's atrocities, maybe the Martells and Lannisters together could have declared themselves for King Viserys Targaryen, the Third of his name.

At least, Robert and his Targaryen paranoia most certainly could have feared that.

[Hazel]

Rockroi,

There has been much talk about killing the children. As stated, Tywin had no idea what the Mountain was at that time and its not like he gave the order "Now, make sure to rape the girl over and over, and bash the babe's head in. And then kill Elia." As Tywin states, he never gave Elia a second-thought (though he should have). Further (and this cannot be overstated) those children had to die no matter what and Robert, Ned, Tywin and Jon Aryyn all KNEW that. Its ripe hypocrisy for Ned and the others to actually claim that what Tywin did was distasteful! They could NOT have rouge Targaryens traipsing about. Boys and girls grow into men and women. And those men and women suddenly someday may want something call "Vengeance." It undermines who kingdoms and splits realms and causes rebellions. Everyone from Cat to Littlefinger recognizes the inherent instability that the old realm's children would bring.

When Henry Tudor, better known as Henry VII, took power from the House of York in England, did he brutally kill every member of the House of York to establish his own dynasty? NO, he had several of them married to influential positions and in a way fused the two families (York and Lancaster) into his new Tudor dynasty. His son and the next king of England, Henry VIII, had a lot of House of York in him.

So Tywin DID NOT have to kill off every single Targaryen he could get his hands on. But he did, because if he didn't, more rational (Or less power-hungry) minds would marry the Targaryen heirs into the Baratheon family. Robert Baratheon himself wasn't pulling all the strings in politics, you know. Jon Arryn took care of most of that. So there's no 'Baratheon rage' to be used as an excuse.

And you argue that he didn't order their deaths? He had no idea that Gregor Clegane, a man who was in his service, would go fucking bonkers and destroy the Royal Family? All it would have taken was for him to say 'Don't kill the Targaryens', and the 'noble' Ser Gregor Clegane would NOT have done so, not because of chivalry, but because going along with your lord makes things all the more better for you. Unless Gregor Clegane had an undying grudge against the Targaryens and thus ignored such orders, a tidbit towards which we're never hinted.

But if he DID have such a grudge, Tywin saying either 'Send any random man under my service into that tower and don't tell him what to do. Just send him in,' or 'Send Gregor Clegane, who hates the Targaryens, into that tower' pretty much all equates into 'Send a man into that tower to kill the Targaryens'.

When the rebellion began, Tywin defended the throne and ended it in the most effective and efficient ways possible. The Red Wedding probably saved more lives than can be reasonably calculated. Its not Tywin's fault that those it cost were those who planned the worst ("What marriage pact?"). Tywin's opportunism saved many more deaths in many more places. And still, Tywin;s entire philosophy is, by farm the most likely to lead to lasting peace: 1) find your enemies, 2) utterly and completely destroy them by every means possible, and 3) after they are defeated, you help your enemies back to their feet. Someone must explain to me how that is bad.

Tywin throwing himself off the Tower of the Hand would also have saved more lives than can be reasonably calculated. You CAN'T reason like that in a war, because it applies to EVERYONE INVOLVED. And I'm rather more certain that Tywin was thinking more about WINNING THE WAR than being a nice guy and saving as many lives as possible with as little cost as possible. As for Tywin's line about helping his enemies up, I'd more expect that to be so that his enemies don't hate him and continue plotting his destruction. Did YOU see him helping Edmure Tully back up and putting him on the seat of Riverrun again? Because I sure didn't. Instead, he put his allies, who helped him plot against the Tullys, on the Tully seat. So much for 'helping your fallen enemies back up'. I highly doubt that Tywin was the George Marshall of Westeros.

Many people wanted Tywin to look the fool or get all hot and bothered by Tyrion kciking his ass in battle or Robb etc. Those are nice thoughts, but Tywin was able at ensuring that he was never in that type of position. That's how he rolled

I find what he did to Tysha to be terrible. Its awful. Oh well... The reader got some nice visions of Tywin dying while taking a poop, so most are satisfied (I actually consider it one of the poorest written chapters in the books, but to each their own). However, this guy knew what he was doing at all times; very little surprised him.

Pleasingly enough, Tywin did look the fool as he was killed in the shitter by his hated dwarf son. Furthermore, you seem to forget that Tywin was FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD. So, it's not enough for Tywin to spite his midget son, have his wife gang-bang raped and make him rape her, and then spite him some more. No, he also has to SLEEP WITH HIS SON'S WHORE. And seeing as there seem to be more than enough whore in King's Landing, you go and tell me why the guy picks the one which his hated dwarf of a son had been fucking for the past few months.

I hope that my tone wasn't overly harsh throughout all that.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

If Tywin had survived long enough to meet Dany, he'd most likely kick her scaly arse all over the seven kingdoms, given how much of a genius he was at the game of thrones. Dragons or no dragons, Dany is lucky Tywin's out of her way.

[A wilding]

When Henry Tudor, better known as Henry VII, took power from the House of York in England, did he brutally kill every member of the House of York to establish his own dynasty? NO, he had several of them married to influential positions and in a way fused the two families (York and Lancaster) into his new Tudor dynasty. His son and the next king of England, Henry VIII, had a lot of House of York in him.

Henry VII basically did the equivalent of marrying Rhaenys - luckily for him Elizabeth, Rhaenys' equivalent, was old enough to marry. She was effectively the York heiress, so he did not need to eliminate the rest of the family.

[Rockroi]

Elia by herself was not a problem. She should not have been harmed. And, the children were young enough to be brainwashed/indoctrinated/exiled so although the most complete solution would have been to eliminate them it was not the ONLY solution that would have been available.

It actually was the only real answer. All other theories rest upon a HOPE that everyone will be cool with Robert smashing Aegon and Rhaeny’s father’s chest in with a hammer, killing their grandfather and that nobody would bother to seek revenge on their behalf. In other words, everyone would have to hope that the normal human reactions would somehow be circumvented by “everyone playing nice.” Did not happen before this, did not happen after.

Letting princes with a better claim survive was done before. Aegon V. did not kill his brother Aemon, nor (as far as we know) the children of his brothers Aerion and Daeron.

No war; no bloodshed. EVERYONE agreed that Aegon should be King. Passing over the distant relatives OF THE SAME CLAN is a far cry from upping and murdering half the clan by a third party. At the end of the day, a Targaryen was King in that case. After Robert? Yeah, not so much! Are we really so obtuse as to believe that had Aegon and Rhaynes survived they BOTH would have been 100% totally cool with the way it all turned out? That would mean you would have 4 LEGITIMATE Targaryen heirs alive and well and all 100% cool with Robert (Rhaegar’s killer) being supported by Tywin (the last legit Hand), Jaime (Aerys’ killer) in a war fought when Ned Stark’s brother wanted Rhaegar to “come out and die?” No, this would work out how?

There might have been a certain need to remove male heirs; but there was no need at all to kill Rhaenys.

By that same logic, the realm has nothing to fear from Dany. Because Dany is also a woman. Thus, when Dany shows up in the Vale with 3 dragons and like 100,000 troops everyone will just go, “Well, if she were a dude, we would have something to fear, but because she is a woman she has no legit claim. Everyone relax!”

Tywin ordered Rhaenys's and Aegon's death simply because he wanted to buy himself into Robert's camp. That was just self preservation, or, to be more precise, an action to assure that House Lannister would keep his status as most powerful House in the Realm under the new regime.

Two points 1) good for Tywin; that is the best way to ensure ongoing stability; 2) regardless of Tywin’s motives, the end is the same: the children had to be killed to preserve the new monarchy. If you choose to recognize that fact is your choice, but history (both Westeros and RL) is filled with former heirs of a crown causing nothing but gigantic headaches for the ruling class. The responsible thing to do (which is also heinous, but necessary) is to kill the remenant of the family. French Revolution, Russian Revolution, the ninepenny kings, the Blackfyre pretenders etc. Its never cool to let the former ruling class’ family stick around.

All it would have taken was for him to say 'Don't kill the Targaryens', and the 'noble' Ser Gregor Clegane would NOT have done so, not because of chivalry, but because going along with your lord makes things all the more better for you.

Again, I think it would have been irresponsible for Tywin to let the children live. Again, bloody, horrifying revolution with the dead King’s grandchildren hanging out and HALF THE REALM unbent by war (remember- Tyrell and Dorne still 100% fine and PROBABLY cool with keeping the arms going for Viserys, Aegon, etc) makes keeping pretenders around an extremely bad idea.

You CAN'T reason like that in a war, because it applies to EVERYONE INVOLVED. And I'm rather more certain that Tywin was thinking more about WINNING THE WAR than being a nice guy and saving as many lives as possible with as little cost as possible.

Leaders DO reason war like that and SHOULD do so at every possible chance. How many of MY people will have to die to ensure that we kill as many of THEIR people in order to win the war. Tywin WAS thinking of winning the war, every waking moment- which is why he won. He avoided the terrible mistakes Robb made. Being a nice guy has NOTHING to do with it; ensuring VICTORY as soon as practical and with the least amount of bloodshed is PARAMOUNT! So, when Tywin orchestrated the Red Wedding he knew he was maximizing his chances of victory with the least amount of loss for his people. The result was that it shortened the war by years. How many lives did that save? Again, in calculable.

Because I sure didn't. Instead, he put his allies, who helped him plot against the Tullys, on the Tully seat. So much for 'helping your fallen enemies back up'. I highly doubt that Tywin was the George Marshall of Westeros.

You are mixing up the points. You have to WIN THE WAR FIRST and utterly destroy your enemies before you can help them back up. The Tullys were still in rebellion so you have to defeat them first before you can protect them.

The analogy is World War I- because the allies did not utterly destroy the Germans, the seeds of WWII were right there waiting to grow. Peace of Versailles lasted all of 20 years (15 if you start WWII when Japan invades China). After WWII, the Allies not only defeated the Axis nations- they utterly pulverized them to the point that there was no possible chance the Axis would be able to do it again. Then- and ONLY then- can you allow for George Marshall. The result? 60+ years of peace.

It works.

Tywin did look the fool as he was killed in the shitter by his hated dwarf son

Meh… again if you like that sort of thing. Frankly I though Ned and Robb looked 10x the fool for being so utterly inept. Regardless, the plan Varys sprung was so ... unrealistic that I saw it coming as soon as they happened to be in that particualr part of the castel. I mean... how did Varys time it? That he KNEW Tywin took a dump after screwing his mistress at that EXACT moment and that Tyrion would take JUST long enough to climb the ladder .... whatever. I give Martin a pass. It was not a terribly well written part of the book, felt tacked on and implausible. Tywin got killed by Tyrion c’est la vie.

But, of course, it was a Lannister who got him, not a Tully, Targaryen or Stark. No way THAT was ever gonna happen.

[Hazel]

It actually was the only real answer. All other theories rest upon a HOPE that everyone will be cool with Robert smashing Aegon and Rhaeny’s father’s chest in with a hammer, killing their grandfather and that nobody would bother to seek revenge on their behalf. In other words, everyone would have to hope that the normal human reactions would somehow be circumvented by “everyone playing nice.” Did not happen before this, did not happen after.

Everyone SHOULD be cool with that because the guy who smashes in you're fathers chest will most likely become family soon enough. At least, that's how Medieval customs would've resolved the situation. Because thus, the Baratheons and the Targaryens would've been in the same family, and as disgruntled as they are there would still be someone with Targaryen blood on the throne, so those Targaryens remaining in Westeros would have little to complain about. The situation with Dany and Viserys, by the way, is pretty much inevitable. Even if a Targaryen sits on the throne, Viserys would (With reason) declare a better claim for the throne. Just that, this time it would be Targs vs. Targs instead of Targs vs. Baratheons.

By that same logic, the realm has nothing to fear from Dany. Because Dany is also a woman. Thus, when Dany shows up in the Vale with 3 dragons and like 100,000 troops everyone will just go, “Well, if she were a dude, we would have something to fear, but because she is a woman she has no legit claim. Everyone relax!”

As I said, the situation with the exiled Targaryens was pretty much inevitable. Bear in mind, however, that Dany herself had no serious interest in the Iron Throne until there was an attempt on her life.

So, when Tywin orchestrated the Red Wedding he knew he was maximizing his chances of victory with the least amount of loss for his people. The result was that it shortened the war by years. How many lives did that save? Again, in calculable.

Alright, here's where you get two conflicting points. If he did care as much for his people as you claim, he most certainly was on his way into Robb's trap in the Westerlands after the fall of the Crag. But if this is the case, he's not as great a strategian as you claim.

What I'm saying is that Tywin saw a chance to win the war, and he took it readily. But if such a chance had NOT presented itself, I doubt that Tywin would have waited around for a chance to end the war with as little bloodshed as possible. If the Red Wedding had not presented itself as an oppurtunity, I have no doubt that Tywin would have continued waging conventional war, and at least here, in the Westerlands, we would have seen how much he really cares about his people.

The analogy is World War I- because the allies did not utterly destroy the Germans, the seeds of WWII were right there waiting to grow. Peace of Versailles lasted all of 20 years (15 if you start WWII when Japan invades China). After WWII, the Allies not only defeated the Axis nations- they utterly pulverized them to the point that there was no possible chance the Axis would be able to do it again. Then- and ONLY then- can you allow for George Marshall. The result? 60+ years of peace.

Let's not start discussing history all too heatedly, but I'm pretty sure that WW1 led to WW2 because the Germans were facing insane reparations which they had to (And could not) pay, which caused them to slip into a crappy economic situation in which people would turn to ANY solution- such as Adolf Hitler. In other words, helping Germany back on its feet could possibly have averted WW2 because it would have meant that the German people wouldn't have voted for a 'politician' that at first was damn close to being homeless and offered barely rational ideas.

Furthermore, the policy of 'Pulverize them so that they never rise again' was the Soviet one (E.g. East Berlin), whereas the Allied one was 'Help them so that they don't turn to radical leaders again' (E.g. West Berlin). And maybe you're aware of the rebellion that occurred in East Berlin in 1953, in which the local puppet authorities had to beg the Russians to employ tanks to put down the risings?

Now, back to Westeros, Tywin did not crush the Riverlands as much as he did the Tullys, so most of their forces are largely intact. And now he's put another family in control of those lands... one that's extremely unpopular with the rest of the Riverlands.

'Helping your enemies up again' would've meant not sending Edmure Tully to incarceration in Casterly Rock, but instead keeping him around until the end of the war proper before putting him back in power and telling the (Now ally-less) lord, 'You're here again because of me. Don't you forget that'. Instead of forgiving, he's replaced his enemy with an unpopular ally. It's almost begging the Riverlands to rise out again in rebellion.

Let's see how this plays out for the Lannisters.

Frankly I though Ned and Robb looked 10x the fool for being so utterly inept. Regardless, the plan Varys sprung was so ... unrealistic that I saw it coming as soon as they happened to be in that particualr part of the castel. I mean... how did Varys time it? That he KNEW Tywin took a dump after screwing his mistress at that EXACT moment and that Tyrion would take JUST long enough to climb the ladder .... whatever. I give Martin a pass. It was not a terribly well written part of the book, felt tacked on and implausible. Tywin got killed by Tyrion c’est la vie.

I fully agree that Ned's and Robb's mistakes were COMPLETELY IDIOTIC (Less Robb's than Ned's, bearing the fact that the former was 16 at the time of the war- But yes, his mistakes were still damn stupid). And if that part was unskilfully written, well, that's not really up for debate. That varies with every reader. I thought it was good, one of the best twists in the series, in fact.

But, of course, it was a Lannister who got him, not a Tully, Targaryen or Stark. No way THAT was ever gonna happen.

Seeing as Tywin was pretty much the perpetrator of the murder of a large proportion of Dany's family, I don't see him having survived over a day upon her return. He'd end up dead, most likely a smouldering heap after making acquaintance with one of her dragons.

Hard to ever see a Tully getting him, seeing as that faction was getting raped for the whole beginning of the war, and was pushed enough to cut all ties with the Iron Throne.

A Stark, much easier to imagine. Tywin was very possible an inch (In fact, one mis-communicated order) away from falling into the trap of a commander who had not lost a single battle in the war and who would be choosing the field of battle. The outcome of this battle is debatable, but King Robb undeniable would have had a whole pouch full of advantages to use in his favour.

Overall, I'd say that Tywin was as close to death throughout the course of the War of the Five Kings as most of his enemies. He just ended up getting a golden chance to get at them without them getting at him.

[arek]

Tywin ordered Rhaenys's and Aegon's death simply because he wanted to buy himself into Robert's camp. That was just self preservation, or, to be more precise, an action to assure that House Lannister would keep his status as most powerful House in the Realm under the new regime.

Two points 1) good for Tywin; that is the best way to ensure ongoing stability; 2) regardless of Tywin’s motives, the end is the same: the children had to be killed to preserve the new monarchy. If you choose to recognize that fact is your choice, but history (both Westeros and RL) is filled with former heirs of a crown causing nothing but gigantic headaches for the ruling class. The responsible thing to do (which is also heinous, but necessary) is to kill the remenant of the family. French Revolution, Russian Revolution, the ninepenny kings, the Blackfyre pretenders etc. Its never cool to let the former ruling class’ family stick around.

1. Cant believe someone would say good for anyone who's order led to a four year old girl being dragged screaming from under her fathers bed and being stabbed over 50 time & calling what Gregor did to Aegon & ELia good.

2. Stability?... greyjoy rose up 6 year later, nine years later another war much worse broke out

Stability hah!

[Lord Varys]

The slaughter of Elia and her children, and the way Robert treated Jaime Lannister were events that pretty much destroyed Ned's and Robert's friendship. They only reconciled because both mourned Lyanna. If Ned and Jon Arryn would have taken King's Landing, neither Eila nor her children would have been harmed.

You don't need to kill all people who may (think or say) have a claim to the throne. You could ignore them, if they have no followers, you can lock them away, you can marry them away. Rhaego would most likely never have become a threat to the Baratheon dynasty, because he himself (in a much larger sense than Dany) would only hear stories about the Realm of his grandfather, but he would have had the Realm of his father right before his feet. And I doubt that even Daenerys would have been interested in her heritage if she would have lived 20 or 30 years among the Dothraki.

The whole Dothraki invasion plan needed to happen soon or never.

Ned would Robert never have let harm the children. Period. Or else everything he is thinking and talking about in AGoT are just lies.

The children did not have been killed to secure the new dynasty. In fact, Robert would even been able to marginalize the exiled Targaryens even more if he had married Rhaegar's children to his own. They would have had better claims than Viserys and Daenerys.

Oh, and the fact that Tywin was removed from the board that early should indicate that Daenerys Targaryen is going to meet little to less 'human' resistance when she is finally getting to Westeros. She will have to deal with the Others. There simply is no competent leader of any opposition, or a charismatic figurehead left (around which any Targaryen resistance with no claim to the Iron Throne could gather).

Around Tommen no one is going to rally.

[Ninepenny King]

Tywin Killed Joff-a sharp lesson- for calling him out in front of cersei and tyrion and kevan

[wakiki]

I think people are confusing Tywin doing things for the benefit of the realm with Tywin doing things for the benefit of house Lannister.

[Edward the Great]

Tywin would have used force lightning on Dany's dragons. Hah!

Seriously, the humane yet politically prudent solution to Rhaegar's children would be to give Aegon to the Faith, or the Guild, or to the Night's Watch, or maybe 2 out of 3 like Aemon.

Rhaenys could be married to one of Robert's brothers or one of his children.

[Rinso]

It would have been madness not to kill Rhaegar's children. If Robert and his buddies wanted the Iron Throne, they would have had to step over children's corpses to get it. Sorry. If you don't have the stomach for that, don't even try to overthrow the royal family in the first place. Tywin did what had to be done.

An exile would have secured nothing, but trouble for the future generations. Look at House Blackfyre. After Daemon Blackfyre and his eldest sons were killed at the Redgrass Field, his other children escaped to the Free Cities. And guess what happened later? The War of the Ninepenny Kings. Or, for that matter, look at Dany and Viserys. The managed to survive the War of the Usurper and what happened? Dany was sold to a Dothraki warlord in the hope that this way Viserys could get an army to invade the Seven Kingdoms. Bottom line is, if you want to take the throne, be prepared to eradicate everyone else who may want it. Otherwise, don't even bother.

And don't let me even start on the Red Wedding...

The only thing that Tywin deserves to be called a shit for is Tysha's gang rape.