UK Politics VI

[The Anti-Targ]

Assuming a hung parliament with a lib/lab coalition, is it down to the minor parties? SNP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru and the Social Democratic and Labour Party, plus Green and Alliance have as of now 18 seats...none of them quite sound like natural Tory partners. The Tories could have what we had during the last election - a largest party that can't round up enough partners to form a coalition.

A multi-headed monster is not the way I'd like to see the UK make its first steps into coalition government. 2 or 3 parties if they can manage it. Actually I wonder if Tories and Labour would ever consider a grand coalition. Perhaps there's just too much of an ideological divide but it's better than being at the mercy of 4 tin pot parties all forcing the major partner into major policy compromises.

[Datepalm]

A multi-headed monster is not the way I'd like to see the UK make its first steps into coalition government. 2 or 3 parties if they can manage it. Actually I wonder if Tories and Labour would ever consider a grand coalition. Perhaps there's just too much of an ideological divide but it's better than being at the mercy of 4 tin pot parties all forcing the major partner into major policy compromises.

How about Tory/LibDem? No chance in hell? Without Sinn Fein in play things become even narrower, and i'm assuming none of the little parties are ever going to flip Tory ("The Social Democratic and Labour Party"!) but none of them alone are enough to get a Lib/Lab coalition over the top either, and I don't see a 4 party coalition lasting very long somehow.

[Lummel]

Tory and Liberal democrat is possible. SDLP/Alliance in northern Ireland is alligned with the Liberal Democrats.

Plaid in the mythical state of Wales and the SNP in Scotland are also rivals as well as potential partners for Labour, so really the Conservatives could still deal with them by promising additional powers to the Welsh and Scottish Parliaments for example.

So everything still up in the air as the last votes are counted and recounted.

[Blue Roses]

Good morning everyone. Not much has changed since I went to bed at 3am. Balls & Cooper kept their seats despite massive swings and Gordon Brown is still Prime Minister. So glad we had an election.

[MinDonner]

NEED COFFEE

Even a Tory minority government wouldn't be a disaster, IMO; without a clear mandate they'd have to shelve most of their crazier policies, and with all the horse-trading necessary to get anything passed, the sharper corners would be knocked off their other ideas too. Hopefully. :unsure:

Too soon for a sweepstake on how long before the next election is called? Is 6 months too optimistic?

[jamesM]

Despite my gloomy post of last night, I actually think this vote has the potential to be a really good thing - If, and yeah, it's a big if right now, Lab and Lib Dem can form a coalition on the basis of electoral reform.

I think there are too many Tories who are staunch first past the post supporters for them to align with Lib Dem so, even with their really disappointing showing, the Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are in a postion of quite a bit of power right now. Which all makes even more of a nonsense of the electoral system we have right now, in my eyes.

Congrats also to Caroline Lucas on a really fantastic achievement.

[MinDonner]

Good morning everyone. Not much has changed since I went to bed at 3am. Balls & Cooper kept their seats despite massive swings and Gordon Brown is still Prime Minister. So glad we had an election.

[The Anti-Targ]

Why wouldn't the Conservatives and Labour love FPTP? It allows them to govern alone with less than 40% of people voting for you. With a substantial 3rd party there is no way a single party would ever get into govt by itself under PR. Heck NZ has required coalition ever since we went PR and that's with no party ever getting above 10% other than the 2 main parties.

[WhiteHaven]

So. Clegg decides whos going to be PM?

[mormont]

A multi-headed monster is not the way I'd like to see the UK make its first steps into coalition government. 2 or 3 parties if they can manage it. Actually I wonder if Tories and Labour would ever consider a grand coalition. Perhaps there's just too much of an ideological divide but it's better than being at the mercy of 4 tin pot parties all forcing the major partner into major policy compromises.

Could we not have people slagging off valid UK political parties, please? The SNP are the second most popular party in Scotland in this election and came first in the Scottish elections: same for PC in Wales. Calling them 'tin pot parties' comes off rather ignorant.

[Lummel]

Some really odd results, how on earth did Gisela Stuart manage to hold her seat? Any ideas?

[Sophelia]

Woke up, showered, ready to work:

BREAKING NEWS We have a hung parliament. There is now no chance of the Conservatives winning a Commons majority.

Worst seems to be averted, but may only be temporary.

I'm curious to learn more about the different systems of proportional representation. The major farce about our current system is that a party can get a majority of votes and a minority of seats, etc. But earlier in the thread people were assuming an improved system would move towards the ideal of allocating seats by those proportions.

I assumed proportional representation also looked at how voters would *rank* their parties, so for example just because some people put the BNP first, the BNP wouldn't necessarily get the proportion of seats indicated by that top vote from the racist minority, if everyone else who voted ranked the BNP as their last choice.

Maybe this (discussion of the pros and cons of different voting systems) is for another thread, but does anyone have a quick description of the type of PR the Lib Dems want brought in?

[Blue Roses]

Well some consolation is that Gordon will have to clear up his own mess now and if he thinks he feels unloved now....wait another year. Perhaps we could club together and offer him a holiday in Greece this year?

[Sophelia]

Well some consolation is that Gordon will have to clear up his own mess now and if he thinks he feels unloved now....wait another year. Perhaps we could club together and offer him a holiday in Greece this year?

I worry about how much the focus is on personalities rather than on policies. I mean obviously personality is important: both in terms of representing the country to the rest of the world, and because the leader of a party can have some/much (?) influence on priorities, decisions made and so on. But I would hope that policy-making is actually a teamwork effort.

People are saying that the vote reflects badly on Gordon Brown, where I took it more of a message about what people thought about Labour. It seems a bit harsh/generous to pin a party's fortunes entirely on one person. Am I unusual to pay little attention to personalities? To me the differences in policies are so huge (well, still not different enough in some ways, but still so crucial in making up my mind that I would not have the luxury of factoring in personality except of course their very choice of party and policies - which I would ideally had I any means to assess it, choose as being the most honest, competent, knowledgeable, and willing to listen to reason).

[Slick Mongoose]

Morning.

Woke up to Thurrock going blue. Do we know what the current seat projections are? Because looking at the map 306 seems to underestimate the tories by a few seats.

[Datepalm]

Maybe this (discussion of the pros and cons of different voting systems) is for another thread, but does anyone have a quick description of the type of PR the Lib Dems want brought in?

Hrumph. It dosen't seem to say anything too committed anywhere obvious on their site.

The Liberal Democrats will change politics forever and end safe seats by introducing

a fair, more proportional voting system for MPs, and for the House of Lords. By giving

voters the choice between people as well as parties, it means they can stick with a party

but punish a bad MP by voting for someone else.

What does that mean? Multiple party candidates for each constituency? How can you have PR while keeping constituencies?

ETA - BBC lists LibDems as wanting a Single Transfer Vote with multi PM constituencies.

[Slick Mongoose]

The Lib Dems seem to have managed to increase their vote share by 1% and lost 6 seats. :unsure:

[The Anti-Targ]

Could we not have people slagging off valid UK political parties, please? The SNP are the second most popular party in Scotland in this election and came first in the Scottish elections: same for PC in Wales. Calling them 'tin pot parties' comes off rather ignorant.

Fair call. I should have phrased differently as tin pot doesn't mean what I intended. It's more like small fry in terms of overall share of the total vote.

[Slick Mongoose]

Happiest party is probably the Greens. :lol:

[Lummel]

What does that mean? Multiple party candidates for each constituency? How can you have PR while keeping constituencies?

You can do it that way - we already do for European Elections for example. You have a few big constituencies and each one returns multiple MPs.

I think the PR method you have in Israel is rather rare - they use the same system in Holland I think - where the whole country is one big happy constituency.

On the other hand in Germany you have two votes one for a constituency and one for a party list so you have a mixture of directly elected and proportionaly elected MPs.