UK Politics VI

[The Iceman of the North]

Massive swing for the LibDems in Westmorland, not that it's much help for them.

ETA: Does the Sinn Fein MPs show up in Westminster?

[Lummel]

At the moment every seat is going to count and Westmoreland was a Conservative target.

Sinn Fein MPs don't take their seats at Westminister, MPs have to take an oath of loyalty to the Crown which as a Republican party they find a slight sticking point. However they still draw their salaries and claim expenses. I guess they still do constituency work.

[VarysTheSpider]

I feel rough. Who's idea was it to start smoking cigars? Oh yeah, mine. Fun night anyway, the flatmate and I had three TVs side by side (BBC, ITV, Sky) and two laptops, beers, weed and pizza. Hats off to PoliticsHome.com which got most of the results before anyone else. I preferred Sky's coverage of the election, there was a lot of time spent talking to people at the polling stations which I found much more interesting than talking to studio guests. Around 3am I started to think that these nights need to get Jeff Sterling into present them like Sky's Soccer Saturday. Things were just going too fast for these old guys to keep up.

Fail all round.

Epic.

I may have failed but I am open to forming a coalition with Varys to govern this board in the interest of the posters and to spare Ran the embarrassment of having to intervene in a nakedly political process.

Ugh, and I didn't even get a chance to make any posts about mandates and the wills of the people.

practically, the polls can't just stay open as long as it might take to sort such issues out.

I think they should, as long as it takes. I'll pay the counters' overtime myself. Who in good conscience turns away people trying to vote? It's disgusting.

[mormont]

Am i the only person who thinks this is a worse result for Tories than Labour? Massive problems with the economy, worst election campaign since 83, hugely unpopular labour leader, and the tories still couldnt get close to a majority.

i'm strangely upbeat. dream scenario, Brown moves aside for someone more personable, Cameron fights on. i really beleive Cameron is a massive problem for the tories, so many people loath him and everything he stands for.

As Iceman says, failure is the theme of this election result. Everybody lost.

Opinion poll leads always narrow, of course, but look at this graph, for example. There's an incredibly sharp decline in the Tory lead over a short space of time. The Conservatives' share of the vote, in the end, has gone up by less than 4 percentage points from 2005 - and that was under Michael Howard.

[Paddy]

I think they should, as long as it takes. I'll pay the counters' overtime myself. Who in good conscience turns away people trying to vote? It's disgusting.

I don't even mean that. What if they can't run short of ballot papers and can't get a new batch printed until 10am the next morning?

Should the polling station remain open until then? Should the people be expected to wait at the polling station the whole night? Should they be given some method to identify them so they can go home, but come back at 10am the next morning, at which point they'll have heard all the exit polls and know the outcome at most other polls in the rest of the country?

I'm not talking about the likelihood of such a delay, just that something should be in place to deal with that possibility. Currently the answer is that you can't vote after 10pm. I think my solution is a better compromise, but whatever you do, the question needs to be answered. And I don't see how "stay open as long as it takes" is a real answer.

---------------------------------

Cameron's speech just happened. He's going for a deal or coalition with the Lib-dems.

Talks about "looking into" electoral reform, probably not enough for the Lib-dems, but might be a first position in a negotiation.

[MinDonner]

Did anyone else think that Cameron's begging offer to the Lib Dems was entirely pathetic? Were those three piddly little manifesto pledges the best common ground he could find to offer them? "Yes, and we both want a low-carbon economy"? :dunno: :lol:

[jamesM]

Around 3am I started to think that these nights need to get Jeff Sterling into present them like Sky's Soccer Saturday.

I love this idea.

[Lummel]

Did anyone else think that Cameron's begging offer to the Lib Dems was entirely pathetic? Were those three piddly little manifesto pledges the best common ground he could find to offer them? "Yes, and we both want a low-carbon economy"? :dunno: :lol:

It's an opening bid isn't it? Probably still not clear how much freedom to negotiate either Cameron or Clegg have at the moment with regard to their own parties.

[Zoë Sumra]

I don't even mean that. What if they can't run short of ballot papers and can't get a new batch printed until 10am the next morning?

Then they should (pay me to) find a quicker printer...

In all seriousness it should not take that long.

[mormont]

OK, a little clearer now:

The Tories do want a coalition with the Lib Dems. But... his offer concentrated on the caveats. No change on Europe, no compromise on Trident, and only a 'committee' to look into PR. Against that, as Min says, what are they offering? Low-carbon economy? I think that's important, but they can get it from Labour. Education reform? Hmm.

Labour are basically offering the Lib Dems most of what they want. But they have to. The cost of going in with Labour is much, much higher and it won't even produce a majority.

The Lib Dems might yet not go with either of the other two. Clegg has lost a lot of influence: he has to sell any deal to his members now. And they are unlikely to budge on some of the above issues.

We could be in for an interesting few days...

[The Iceman of the North]

In a blow to the Unionists (and Tories), Sinn Fein held on to Fermanagh & South Tyrone with a 4 vote majority over the independent Unionists compromise candidate. Apparently SF were down 8 votes or so before a recount.

[paddington]

I guess the Tories are ethier a weak coalition (against their party Ideologies), or a strong opposition. If the Tories act half sane (big ask), an not descend into chaos, coming first and not getting in to power could be better for them.

Cameroon could make ground on a labour party that would do any grubby deal to stay in office.

[jamesM]

Did anyone else think that Cameron's begging offer to the Lib Dems was entirely pathetic? Were those three piddly little manifesto pledges the best common ground he could find to offer them? "Yes, and we both want a low-carbon economy"? :dunno: :lol:

It appears he's offered him pretty much everything that both parties already contained in their manifestos. He's also offered an "inquiry" into electoral reform, which will mean an on-going chat that'll last for weeks and eventually be dusted under the carpet.

If Clegg accepts those terms (which, touch wood, he won't) then he's a massive tool.

[mormont]

I guess the Tories are ethier a weak coalition (against their party Ideologies), or a strong opposition. If the Tories act half sane (big ask), an not descend into chaos, coming first and not getting in to power could be better for them.

Cameroon could make ground on a labour party that would do any grubby deal to stay in office.

You have to understand that to a politician, the concept of coming first and not getting into power is simply inconceivable. It's not how the world works. To get them to contemplate the idea that it's a good thing will depend on them first getting their heads around the fact that it can actually happen at all, and that might take some time.

[Horza]

Well done guys, a well-crafted, complex election result that didn't take the easy, Clegg-heavy route. And my month-old prediction is looking pretty good, I hear Vince is taking his pick of sandtrout as we speak.

[MinDonner]

Fuck. We were outguessed by an Aussie??

*hangs head in shame*

[Paddy]

Then they should (pay me to) find a quicker printer...

In all seriousness it should not take that long.

I know, that's why I said that I'm not even talking about the likelihood of the delay. If some eventually that we haven't thought of here happens and it means that people who turn up at 9:55pm don't get to vote until 9am the next morning because the rule says "stay open as long as it takes", is that ok?

It just doesn't seem practical to me.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

In a blow to the Unionists (and Tories), Sinn Fein held on to Fermanagh & South Tyrone with a 4 vote majority over the independent Unionists compromise candidate. Apparently SF were down 8 votes or so before a recount.

Just wait until the hanging chads get brought into it....

[jamesM]

The more I go over what Cameron is saying the angrier I get and more convinced i become that he somehow believes that the rest of the country is a bunch of dumb hicks compared to him...

"I hereby make a big, open, comprehensive offer to you. I am willing to compromise with your policies on the following policy areas: all the areas in which our policies are exactly the same, or sufficiently apple pie for differences to be meaningless. I will say, however, that I am not willing to compromise in the following areas: any areas in which our policies differ. I do this for the national interest."

[MinDonner]

"I hereby make a big, open, comprehensive offer to you. I am willing to compromise with your policies on the following policy areas: all the areas in which our policies are exactly the same, or sufficiently apple pie for differences to be meaningless. I will say, however, that I am not willing to compromise in the following areas: any areas in which our policies differ. I do this for the national interest."

:lol:

+1