Breaking Bad Seasons Three and Four

[Snuffaluffalee]

I think people are seeing things that aren't there. Gus went out of his way to stop Jesse drinking the poisoned tequila. If he or Mike wanted Jesse dead, he'd be dead. It's just a stray hand movement I think, Mike is trying to get into the car while holding the gun and keeping it trained on the house, which can make for some awkward movements.

Yeah, that's how I took it as well.

What a great episode!

[TrackerNeil]

Sure Walt was willing to take a bullet for Jesse. But Walt has also demanded that Jesse become his personal assassin twice now. And the first time on an innocent, which has clearly caused Jesse a ton of emotional issues that Walt hasn't bothered much to help with. As usual, Walt is all about Walt. And his pushing and demanding that Jesse become his own cold blooded version of Mike the Hitman - to the point of bugging his car and constantly demanding to see the cigarette) is what has deteriorated the trust between them even more than Jesse's being taken in by Gus and Mike.

Yup. Walt may view Jesse as family in some strange way, but that sentiment does not prevent him from sending Jesse into dangerous situation after dangerous situation, starting with Tuco and ending with Gale.

BTW, I don't have a problem with the plausibility of Skylar's little ploy with the IRS. Look, just because the IRS could file criminal charges against Ted doesn't mean it wants to, or that the agency is sure those charges will stick. I suspect that the threat of prosecution is more a way to get Ted to cooperate rather than an actual intent to put him behind bars. Skylar's little performance probably reinforced what the auditor was already thinking: "I just want this guy to pay what he owes, plus penalties." Once Ted agreed to do that, the issue was settled.

Speaking of Ted, it's interesting how Skylar is sort of resisting her inevitable slide into true villainy by trying to buy him out of trouble without acknowledging it. What she needed to do what make him her dog by paying off his taxes and then turning his company into a money-laundering scheme, and siccing Walt on him if he resists. Instead, she's kinda-sorta trying to pressure him into making the decision will best suit her needs, without actually coercing him, at least so far. I keep wondering when she's going to accept that, as part of a conspiracy to manufacture and distribute drugs, she is a bad guy (or gal). She's not a victim of circumstance, or a dupe; she's a criminal. She might as well act like it.

[Houndred]

Best episode of the season so far I would say, I agree with previous posts that it could easily be the season finale.

Sky turning into an early version of Walt, it's only a matter of time before she starts threatening Ted for real. The whole episode between Walt and his son taking care of him, damn. :crying:

I too called the poison before it happened, but really, that was the set up wasn't it? The Cartel made it personal, so Gus did too. What I didn't forsee is Mike getting hit, I thought, why is Mike breaking his window....oh. I am really interested in how this plays out.

[red snow]

Great episode with a bit of everything for every aspect of the show people love (except no hank). My favourite scene was Walt admitting he had fucked up with Jesse. It doesn't excuse the fact he has been a dick but it at least means the showrunners were intending Walt to become like this. Waltjr's comment about him being "real" for the first time in a year was exactly how i felt too.

I don't think the poison was even meant to be a surpeise. As soon as the bottle turned up, that was going to be the way Gus had his revenge, The fact he was willing to risk his own life shows just how personal it all was to him. Twenty years to get revenge. Best served cold, indeed.

Nice to see Skylar come to realisation that some people can't be helped. Not sure what she's planning now she's admitted she gave him the money. Is the show going to end with Skylar being the big boss? I think she has Gus's imagination.

[Blaine]

After seeing Walt's head peel off onto his stuck sheet and remembering the incredibleness of Mike's gunshot ear - whoever is doing the effects on the show deserves a damn raise.

[red snow]

After seeing Walt's head peel off onto his stuck sheet and remembering the incredibleness of Mike's gunshot ear - whoever is doing the effects on the show deserves a damn raise.

Yeah they have some good gore in this show, going all the way back to the first time they "melted" someone,

[Rockroi]

So, here are my thoughts on the episode:

-I am not convinced that Walt did not mean to say to Walt Jr. what he said. Hear me out: I think that when Walt saw Jr in the driveway, he knew he was up against it. So he thought up the first lie he could: that he had been gambling and not to tell Skylar. He then realizes that Jr. wants specifics. So what does Walt do? He turns on the water-works; and its kind of obvious that he cannot bring himself to cry; that he's struggling just to make himself appear to be vulnerable. He's trying to distract Jr and he cannot seem to do it. Junior falls for it, but then Walt- as he is drifting off to sleep - calls him "Jesse" and its really bad. I liked how he then told the story of watching his own father waste away from disease and how much that weighs on him. I thought that was one of the best things about the episode: it made a real attempt to explain Walt's humanity through his relatively banal past. It makes a bit more sense that Walt was doing what he was doing- and that he did not want to end up like his father: wasting before his family's eyes.

-I like that Sky fucked up, and that much like Walt- her only recourse is to dig deeper down the rabbit hole. Her decision to give Ted the money was terrible. Just a bad idea. She then makes it worse by telling Ted. Why? Well, because much like Walt, Sky wants to be in control of people who could, potentially, ruin her new lifestyle. It puts a far more compelling spin on Sky (and as I have always maintained, a far more realistic one), namely that she will go to great lengths to get peope to do what she wants, even if it appears to be against her best interests. Much like Walt lied to Hank, Sky is trying to get Ted to do what she wants- just that she is revealing wayyyyy too much.

-Jesse was brilliant, as he is almost every episode now. I liked how he and Gus turned his ignorance into a positive; how he took control of that lab (my instincts tell me that had Walt done that, people on these boards would be decrying him as an asshole control freak). I thought Jesse is finding something about himself that he likes and is expanding into new areas. Huge transformation of the character.

-Unfortunately, I am of two minds on the last scenes. On the one hand, I was a little skeptical on the entire premise- that Gus was aware that not only would he have the opportunity to poison the Don, but all his capos as well; that every single capo would drink the beverage; and that they would all drink enough to die. I felt that had a little too much convenience to be believed. I mean, I think all but two guys drank the poison. That's kind of a stretch. I mean, maybe one of the capos is like "I don't drink." Nope. I thought it was a little too "nice and neat" of an ending to a story-line I was not particularly invested in anyway.

But on the other hand, I kind of liked that that end is closed. Like I said, I was not a huge fan of that story-line; the "Cartel" was this amorphous blob; had virtually no personality. It was bad, but I was never quite sure why. I know that Gus wanted revenge, but as far as the audience was concerned, Gus has been seeking revenge from the Cartel for ... all of one whole episode. So what? In a way, liked that they put an end-note on that edge of the story so we can concentrate on the more important elements. I liked that Gus and Mike are now reliant on Jesse and its now fascinating to see where that part of the story will go.

In a way, its possible that maybe - just maybe -Gus is legitimately impressed with Jesse. I am not sure I buy that, but its on the table as a legit plot point. I would MUCH rather explore that part of the story than some hackneyed assembly of various Cartel story-lines that don't have much too them.

Ultimately, I liked the episode; its not my favorite of the series, though it may have been the best of the season. So far.

[Analu]

So, here are my thoughts on the episode:

-I am not convinced that Walt did not mean to say to Walt Jr. what he said. Hear me out: I think that when Walt saw Jr in the driveway, he knew he was up against it. So he thought up the first lie he could: that he had been gambling and not to tell Skylar. He then realizes that Jr. wants specifics. So what does Walt do? He turns on the water-works; and its kind of obvious that he cannot bring himself to cry; that he's struggling just to make himself appear to be vulnerable. He's trying to distract Jr and he cannot seem to do it. Junior falls for it, but then Walt- as he is drifting off to sleep - calls him "Jesse" and its really bad. I liked how he then told the story of watching his own father waste away from disease and how much that weighs on him. I thought that was one of the best things about the episode: it made a real attempt to explain Walt's humanity through his relatively banal past. It makes a bit more sense that Walt was doing what he was doing- and that he did not want to end up like his father: wasting before his family's eyes.

-I like that Sky fucked up, and that much like Walt- her only recourse is to dig deeper down the rabbit hole. Her decision to give Ted the money was terrible. Just a bad idea. She then makes it worse by telling Ted. Why? Well, because much like Walt, Sky wants to be in control of people who could, potentially, ruin her new lifestyle. It puts a far more compelling spin on Sky (and as I have always maintained, a far more realistic one), namely that she will go to great lengths to get peope to do what she wants, even if it appears to be against her best interests. Much like Walt lied to Hank, Sky is trying to get Ted to do what she wants- just that she is revealing wayyyyy too much.

-Jesse was brilliant, as he is almost every episode now. I liked how he and Gus turned his ignorance into a positive; how he took control of that lab (my instincts tell me that had Walt done that, people on these boards would be decrying him as an asshole control freak). I thought Jesse is finding something about himself that he likes and is expanding into new areas. Huge transformation of the character.

-Unfortunately, I am of two minds on the last scenes. On the one hand, I was a little skeptical on the entire premise- that Gus was aware that not only would he have the opportunity to poison the Don, but all his capos as well; that every single capo would drink the beverage; and that they would all drink enough to die. I felt that had a little too much convenience to be believed. I mean, I think all but two guys drank the poison. That's kind of a stretch. I mean, maybe one of the capos is like "I don't drink." Nope. I thought it was a little too "nice and neat" of an ending to a story-line I was not particularly invested in anyway.

But on the other hand, I kind of liked that that end is closed. Like I said, I was not a huge fan of that story-line; the "Cartel" was this amorphous blob; had virtually no personality. It was bad, but I was never quite sure why. I know that Gus wanted revenge, but as far as the audience was concerned, Gus has been seeking revenge from the Cartel for ... all of one whole episode. So what? In a way, liked that they put an end-note on that edge of the story so we can concentrate on the more important elements. I liked that Gus and Mike are now reliant on Jesse and its now fascinating to see where that part of the story will go.

In a way, its possible that maybe - just maybe -Gus is legitimately impressed with Jesse. I am not sure I buy that, but its on the table as a legit plot point. I would MUCH rather explore that part of the story than some hackneyed assembly of various Cartel story-lines that don't have much too them.

Ultimately, I liked the episode; its not my favorite of the series, though it may have been the best of the season. So far.

Clearly, you're wrong about everything.

Great ep. Jesse had the perfect chance to kill Mike and Gus and it never even crossed his mind. Walt would've been soooooo pissed.

[sckma]

Jesse had a great chance to kill Mike and Gus? How? If he did, he would be stuck in Mexico, no way to get out, in a country where the drug cartel was just taken out.... surely the cartel has family that will want to take him out.

Also.... one thing that bothered me about the killing, wouldn't there be many more guards then 2? But I don't really mind, it was still a great scene.

I don't think Walt was calculated in forcing himself to appear vulnerable, I think he was so weak and knows he did wrong, really knows he pushed too far, and he's scared what will happen to him. he has nobody to trust, nobody to work with, to conspire and come up with a plan to get him out.

Great episode, love how the second half of the seasons ramp up in the action and stakes, can't wait to see what's left!

[Arrogant Bastard]

So, here are my thoughts on the episode:

-I am not convinced that Walt did not mean to say to Walt Jr. what he said. Hear me out: I think that when Walt saw Jr in the driveway, he knew he was up against it. So he thought up the first lie he could: that he had been gambling and not to tell Skylar. He then realizes that Jr. wants specifics. So what does Walt do? He turns on the water-works; and its kind of obvious that he cannot bring himself to cry; that he's struggling just to make himself appear to be vulnerable. He's trying to distract Jr and he cannot seem to do it. Junior falls for it, but then Walt- as he is drifting off to sleep - calls him "Jesse" and its really bad. I liked how he then told the story of watching his own father waste away from disease and how much that weighs on him. I thought that was one of the best things about the episode: it made a real attempt to explain Walt's humanity through his relatively banal past. It makes a bit more sense that Walt was doing what he was doing- and that he did not want to end up like his father: wasting before his family's eyes.

-I like that Sky fucked up, and that much like Walt- her only recourse is to dig deeper down the rabbit hole. Her decision to give Ted the money was terrible. Just a bad idea. She then makes it worse by telling Ted. Why? Well, because much like Walt, Sky wants to be in control of people who could, potentially, ruin her new lifestyle. It puts a far more compelling spin on Sky (and as I have always maintained, a far more realistic one), namely that she will go to great lengths to get peope to do what she wants, even if it appears to be against her best interests. Much like Walt lied to Hank, Sky is trying to get Ted to do what she wants- just that she is revealing wayyyyy too much.

-Jesse was brilliant, as he is almost every episode now. I liked how he and Gus turned his ignorance into a positive; how he took control of that lab (my instincts tell me that had Walt done that, people on these boards would be decrying him as an asshole control freak). I thought Jesse is finding something about himself that he likes and is expanding into new areas. Huge transformation of the character.

-Unfortunately, I am of two minds on the last scenes. On the one hand, I was a little skeptical on the entire premise- that Gus was aware that not only would he have the opportunity to poison the Don, but all his capos as well; that every single capo would drink the beverage; and that they would all drink enough to die. I felt that had a little too much convenience to be believed. I mean, I think all but two guys drank the poison. That's kind of a stretch. I mean, maybe one of the capos is like "I don't drink." Nope. I thought it was a little too "nice and neat" of an ending to a story-line I was not particularly invested in anyway.

But on the other hand, I kind of liked that that end is closed. Like I said, I was not a huge fan of that story-line; the "Cartel" was this amorphous blob; had virtually no personality. It was bad, but I was never quite sure why. I know that Gus wanted revenge, but as far as the audience was concerned, Gus has been seeking revenge from the Cartel for ... all of one whole episode. So what? In a way, liked that they put an end-note on that edge of the story so we can concentrate on the more important elements. I liked that Gus and Mike are now reliant on Jesse and its now fascinating to see where that part of the story will go.

In a way, its possible that maybe - just maybe -Gus is legitimately impressed with Jesse. I am not sure I buy that, but its on the table as a legit plot point. I would MUCH rather explore that part of the story than some hackneyed assembly of various Cartel story-lines that don't have much too them.

Ultimately, I liked the episode; its not my favorite of the series, though it may have been the best of the season. So far.

I have pretty much the same opinion about the episode.

I felt that the poisoned tequila plan by Gus just worked out way too easily, and it was a pretty awful plan to begin with. I just didn't buy that the best plan that Gus and Mike could come up with to take out the cartel was to bring a poisoned gift bottle of tequila, have Gus take an antidote, and then hope Don Eladio and all his capos drank it and then passed out and died at roughly the same time. If the Don decides to save the bottle and drink it later, or only drink it for himself, or if he has more than two bodyguards that don't drink, the plan pretty much fails. I may be thinking too much into this, but this bothered me a lot more than Walt running over the two drug dealers or blowing up Tuco's base. In those two cases, it was Walt being Walt and being totally reckless; Gus is supposed to be very careful, but to me it seemed like his plan hinged on just about everything going right. To me it seemed like the writers wanted the Mexico subplot quickly wrapped up in an episode, which is probably for the best though.

I am glad that this cartel storyline is presumably over, at least for this season, because I never really cared for it or Gus's backstory. I just didn't feel any emotion or elation that Gus got his revenge because I didn't care about his revenge; it was only set up like two episodes ago in a ten minute flashback. I really only care about Gus in relation to how he deals with Walt and Jesse, not his personal background or past troubles. It was a lot more satisfying to see Walt and Jesse overcome Tuco, who was set up really great, than to see Gus take down Don Eladio.

I did enjoy Walt's part in this episode a lot. I really liked his conversation with Walt Jr. and I think his crying was fake, though obviously calling him Jesse was unintentional. I'm curious if this will really backfire down the road; it's possible that Walt Jr. tells uncle Hank this and it finally allows Hank to put all the numerous pieces together that point to Walt as being Heisenberg.

I'm interested to see where the Ted Skyler storyline goes; Skyler really fucked that up by giving him the money, adn then even more by telling him it came from her. I don't see Ted lasting the season.

So, not my favorite episode, but I'm still very excited for the conclusion of the season.

[Rockroi]

I have pretty much the same opinion about the episode.

So, not my favorite episode, but I'm still very excited for the conclusion of the season.

Sorry, Arrogant Bastard, but according to Analu, we are both "clearly (as opposed to opaquely) wrong about everything." Thankfully, Analu has provided me with terriffic insight ... by not providing one single shred of discussion as to refute anything I have stated (and which you concur with). And according to him I am wrong about "everything." That's right ... everything. I'm just glad that I was able to spell a few of the character's names correctly.

Regardless, (and on a more serious note) I am a bit confused on my own analysis; I mean maybe Walt was trying to be sincere with his son at the very beginning. But I just thought Walt appeared to be sooooo insincere; so awkward; so obviously unable to even produce tears that he was being woefully dishonest and could not even muster real emotion. He had to fake it all. But others could be 100% correct; maybe Walt was just so out of it that he was crying for real. I am not sure about that, though. Walt wanted Junior to go away; he did not want to deal with him. It was only because Junior threatened to call the cops that Walt even met him. It was only because Junior threatened to call Sky that he said anything. And he was stuck; he said the first thing that came to his head.

When Junior pressed, Walt had nothing ... so I thought he just tried to squirt out a few tears.

I don't know. I could be wrong (unlike Analu who is so confident in his opinions that he can declare others "clearly wrong"); maybe he meant it. But it struck me that he meant nothing except to get Junior to shut up and get out.

In fact, I thought it was a semi-indictment of Walt insofar as he was lying to his son... about a lie... so his wife would not find out that it was a lie... the same lie she came up with. Seriously, I thought the whole point of that scene was the depths Walt will sink to lie.

And how it was repeated by Sky in a twist later on.

Or I'm just "clearly wrong."

[Analu]

Jesse had a great chance to kill Mike and Gus? How? If he did, he would be stuck in Mexico, no way to get out, in a country where the drug cartel was just taken out.... surely the cartel has family that will want to take him out.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

How was he going to get out with Gus and Mike? Probably the same way they got in, on that little 4-seater plane. So just drive back to the plane, make up some story about how the cartel got into a shootout with Gus and Mike and they all killed each other Reservoir-Dogs style, and you're the last man standing. Pilot takes you back to the US. And if the pilot doesn't believe you, pointing a gun at him should quickly change his mind.

So yes, it was a perfect opportunity to kill Gus and Mike (assuming Jesse actually still wants to). He had them in a position where they weren't on their home turf, they were injured and ailing, and scanning for other threats. He's not going to get another chance like that again.

Sorry, Arrogant Bastard, but according to Analu, we are both "clearly (as opposed to opaquely) wrong about everything." Thankfully, Analu has provided me with terriffic insight ... by not providing one single shred of discussion as to refute anything I have stated (and which you concur with). And according to him I am wrong about "everything." That's right ... everything. I'm just glad that I was able to spell a few of the character's names correctly.

lol. You're just too easy, dude. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Lighten up

[Horza]

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

How was he going to get out with Gus and Mike? Probably the same way they got in, on that little 4-seater plane. So just drive back to the plane, make up some story about how the cartel got into a shootout with Gus and Mike and they all killed each other Reservoir-Dogs style, and you're the last man standing. Pilot takes you back to the US. And if the pilot doesn't believe you, pointing a gun at him should quickly change his mind.

So yes, it was a perfect opportunity to kill Gus and Mike (assuming Jesse actually still wants to). He had them in a position where they weren't on their home turf, they were injured and ailing, and scanning for other threats. He's not going to get another chance like that again.

Except he has no idea where the plane landed as he was taken from it blindfold, it's probably not sitting around in the same spot and it's the Cartel's plane to begin with. Otherwise, great plan.

[Analu]

Except he has no idea where the plane landed as he was taken from it blindfold, it's probably not sitting around in the same spot and it's the Cartel's plane to begin with. Otherwise, great plan.

Gus and Mike were blindfolded too, so they're in the same predicament.

But Gus probably has an alternate way to get out all planned out, so I'll concede that maybe it's not the bestest idea in the world. I'm glad you agree that it's a great plan, though. Thanks

[Reposado]

Don't agree about Walt faking it. I don't think Walt is that good an actor. Seemed fairly obvious that he started coming up with a story and then, accidentally revealing his real feelings about what happened with Jesse.

But yeah, the killing scene was somewhat unrealistic and very risky for a Gus plan. If the fictional tequila they are drinking is so rare, I doubt the Don would want to share it with everyone, especially considering most of the men will not appreciate it. Gus shot it for god's sake.

[Horza]

Lets be clear, this is a ploy that the Medicis would be ashamed of. There are obvious foils like Eladios goons wanting the juice tested, Eladio hogging the bottle, Eladio having more than two non-imbibing goons on the premises, etc etc.

However, this is a show where pink person-slurry cascades through ceilings and Danny Trejo's head gets spiked on an explosive-rigged tortise, so some leeway should be granted here. Realism has always played a back seat to drama in the BBverse and we're just lucky VG and crew have kept disbelief hovering for so long.

[GSP]

Anybody else suspect that Jesse being on the Mexican how-to-make-meth instructional video will someday come back to haunt him?

[Arrogant Bastard]

Lets be clear, this is a ploy that the Medicis would be ashamed of. There are obvious foils like Eladios goons wanting the juice tested, Eladio hogging the bottle, Eladio having more than two non-imbibing goons on the premises, etc etc.

However, this is a show where pink person-slurry cascades through ceilings and Danny Trejo's head gets spiked on an explosive-rigged tortise, so some leeway should be granted here. Realism has always played a back seat to drama in the BBverse and we're just lucky VG and crew have kept disbelief hovering for so long.

Very true. This instance with Gus and the poison just especially stood out to me because it seemed very out of character for him to come up with such a rash and risky plan. I am interested in why he didn't just hand Pinkman over to the cartel; I guess he wanted revenge on them. Or he still thinks Walt won't work without him, though at this point I think Walt would, which Gus would know if he kept having Walt followed. Apparently he hasn't been having him followed anymore, or he'd know about Walt's plans to have him murdered.

[Horza]

Anybody else suspect that Jesse being on the Mexican how-to-make-meth instructional video will someday come back to haunt him?

Si.

Also: we get the getaway car's licence plate shoved in our faces, which I guess means Y_(an)Q_(u)I_(?)-7N-99 isn't just going to be a means of getting from A to B.

[Relic]

Walt wasn't faking his tears. The pills are shown by his bedside and he really does lose it. That's how I read that scene. Trying to backtrack and explain to JR. that dad isn't a weakinling/pussy confirms it. As does his mistakeningly callin walt JR "Jesse".

Great episode even if the tequila thing was overly simple, downright silly, and predictable from the moment Cartel boss says "ohhhh a present for meeeeee?" I was watching mike the entire time and seeing him move in on the bodyguard like an angle of death was pretty rad. Anyone think mike is gonna die from his wound?