Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?

[Alia Atreides]

Hello all,

I'm new to being a member on these boards, but I'll admit that I've been reading them for awhile. I searched through the forums to see if this topic has come up already, but I did not see it. If this is a topic that is already ongoing, please let me know!

I had a thought the other day that perhaps Littlefinger is actually Robert Arryn's father. This is my thought process:

1. Lysa is obviously in love with Littlefinger. This can seen at the end of ASoS through her jealousy of Sansa and her admission that she killed Jon Arryn at Littlefinger's behest.

2. We know that Lysa and Littlefinger slept together before he was sent away for the duel with Brandon Stark.

3. I suspect the Lord Hoster Tully made Lysa get rid of a baby she was carrying prior to her marriage to Jon Arryn. Littlefinger was the most likely candidate for the father of this baby. This explains why on his death bed Lord Tully continually says the word "Tansy." We later learn that Tansy tea is used to get rid of unwanted pregnancies during a discussion between Tormund and Jon Snow. Lord Hoster Tully's guilt would then relate to forcing his daughter to end this pregnancy in order to secure the marriage alliance with Jon Arryn.

4. We know that Littlefinger was likely in Kings Landing at the time Robert was conceived. At the request of Lysa, Jon Arryn brought Littlefinger to court for a minor appointment, which he excelled at, eventually gaining the post of Master of Coin.

5. We also know that Lysa had great difficulty conceiving a child with Jon Arryn and that she experienced several miscarriages. We also know that she had knowledge of Tansy Tea to end unwanted pregnancies.

Is it possible that these miscarriages were deliberate on the part of Lysa so that she could carry the child of the man she truly loved, Littlefinger?

One troubling detail for me is the whole "the seed is strong" issue. Lysa mistakes Jon Arryn's dying words explaining Cersei and Jamie's incest as an endorsement of Robert Arryn as a strong heir.

Thoughts?

The way I read it her Father tricked Lysa someway into drinking that tea; telling her she would have others, etc. She really believed she was in love with LF obsessed in fact and it was a love he never returned. LF is way too cunning and he would of not risked an affair with Lysa (too high strung to have ever kept that quiet) and he would of seen no advantage in "indulging" her with an affair.

Jon Arryn's two other wives had issues with their pregnancies as well which would lead one to believe the issue was more with Jon's seed than the women involved. Lysa went through several miscarriages herself before producing SweetRobin who was born sickly and has stayed that way with the seizures, etc.

Its not a bad theory but you have to think of LF's character to know its patiently false; he only slept with her again when left with no choice. As he said "you close your eyes and get it over with" I think this is how he truly felt about Lysa.

[The Kinkslayer]

Robin is short for his age, so i put my silver on him being LF's

[RedShirt47]

Interesting idea and seems quite possible. No way to know for sure unless Sansa finds some letters or a journal which mentions Robin's origins and this seems highly unlikely. But if Robin was shown to be illegitimate then the Vale lordship is up for grabs.

Also I wonder if Jon had suspicions of his own son and this could have prompted him to look into Joffrey's lineage?

Jon then saying something like "The seed is strong" could have prompted Lysa to confide in LF who could have prompted her to poison him.

[coil]

I think it likely that Sweet Robin is Littlefinger's kid but at this point, so what?

Littlefinger is making sure that he's being slowly poisoned... if Sweet Robin is his child we're in kinslayin' territory.

I find it important since kinslayers in the whole asoiaf generally are doomed to specially bad things :)

Both are short and physically similar, Jon Arryn never had any sort of son while generally the other Arryns are prone to make children... I think it's pretty much a given, including OP's doubts.

In any case, the irrefutable proof is that both Littlefinger and Sweetrobin hate porridge and want to awkwardly kiss Sansa.

Here, I dropped the bomb.

[Cersei the Great]

I know this topic was debated on a few topics, a good number of people think that this theory might be true, due to Jon Arryn´s number of wifes and none heir. That would make highly unlikely that Robyn would be his son... Would also explain why Lisa is so attached to the boy, if he was offspring to the man she loves.

This makes sense to me.

[Lord_Tyrell]

That would require them sleeping together and Jon Arryn's not a drunk.

Do you have a quote? She cold be referring to the two time they slept together at Riverrun. I just don't think LF's that stupid.

I'd say what Littlefinger has done is much more risky than screwing Lysa. Littlefinger is all about risks, and using it to coerce Lysa into killing Jon may have been essential to her killing him.

[Lee-Sensei]

I'd say what Littlefinger has done is much more risky than screwing Lysa. Littlefinger is all about risks, and using it to coerce Lysa into killing Jon may have been essential to her killing him.

Read post #81. Also, even if he did sleep with Lysa to convince her to kill Jon Arryn (not that he'd have to), Robert Arryn was already 5-6 years old at that point.

[Sweetgirl205]

I don't think it will matter, because Robin is going to die soon. If Robin dies because of his illness, no problems. However, if Robin has an "accident" Littlefinger could be cursed as a kinslayer either way. As a step parent, you agree to protect the child like he is your flesh and blood.

[Parizad]

I dont think sweetrobin's Littlefingers, Lysa would have told him at some point and as much of a bastard as he is I don't Littlefinger would be poisoning his own kid.

Where is it stated that LF is poisoning Robin?

[coil]

Where is it stated that LF is poisoning Robin?

AFfC, chapter 23, Alayne.

At Lord Petyr's suggestion, Maester Colemon has been using sweetsleep to treat his seizures, although he is also very worried about the potentially fatal side-effects of using it too often.

Courtesy of the wiki!

Murder by proxy should count as kinslaying as well, like Stannis > Renly by Melisandre + shadow baby or Euron > Balon by a faceless man.

[Parizad]

I think I remember the timelines being cross-checked before and it being concluded that LF probably couldn't be the father.

Jon Arryn was supposed to be powerful and have massive shoulders, yeah...but nature vs. nurture here. I doubt Jon Arryn was raised on breast milk and rarely allowed to engage in any activity which might cause a bruise. If he had been he'd probably be fairly underdeveloped and weak, too.

Being breast fed makes babies stronger not weaker, so does exercise.

[Parizad]

AFfC, chapter 23, Alayne.

At Lord Petyr's suggestion, Maester Colemon has been using sweetsleep to treat his seizures, although he is also very worried about the potentially fatal side-effects of using it too often.

Courtesy of the wiki!

Murder by proxy should count as kinslaying as well, like Stannis > Renly by Melisandre + shadow baby or Euron > Balon by a faceless man.

Thanks for bringing that up!

[Alia Atreides]

I think I remember the timelines being cross-checked before and it being concluded that LF probably couldn't be the father.

Jon Arryn was supposed to be powerful and have massive shoulders, yeah...but nature vs. nurture here. I doubt Jon Arryn was raised on breast milk and rarely allowed to engage in any activity which might cause a bruise. If he had been he'd probably be fairly underdeveloped and weak, too.

Ok. Firstly being breast fed has not a thing to do with a child growing strong or being weak in the way that Sweetrobin is weak, it has to do with genetics. Jon Arryn could be quite massive and yet either have a poor genetic strain or a poor "seed" production so no matter how many times he "fertilized" any Woman's Ova; it either ended in stillbirths or miscarriages, OR a Sweetrobin.

[The Frosted King]

I hope not.

Jon Arryn didn't deserve to die, and he definitely didn't deserve horns.

[myhousigilisthehousecat]

I don't think so- Littlefinger hates Lysa more than Sweetrobin hates porridge. I have no doubt that they slept together in King's Landing when he needed to manipulate her, but he'd take all possible precautions not to accidentally spawn with her. Jon Arryn knew Lysa was "soiled" when he married her and possibly even suspected it was with LF, so his guard is up for that kind of thing. It would be really bad if they had made a kid who looked exactly like LF, it could cause Jon Arryn to undo all of LF's hard-earned advancement. He's reckless but not stupid.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Read post #81. Also, even if he did sleep with Lysa to convince her to kill Jon Arryn (not that he'd have to), Robert Arryn was already 5-6 years old at that point.

And Littlefinger had been in King's Landing for about that long. It's been clear he's been Master of the Coin for a while, and he was in King's Landing before he assumed the position (no pun intended).

[Lee-Sensei]

And Littlefinger had been in King's Landing for about that long. It's been clear he's been Master of the Coin for a while, and he was in King's Landing before he assumed the position (no pun intended).

He was appointed to his position in Gulltown in 289 AL. Robert Arryn was born in 292 AL.

Again, LF isn't stupid enough to sleep with and father his bastard on his boss' wife while he's trying to climb to a position of power. And he hates Lysa.

[Sweetgirl205]

Being breast fed makes babies stronger not weaker, so does exercise.

Babies yes, but Robin is not a baby. Being breast fed at his age, coupled with being given sweets just to shut him up and being spoiled rotten is killing that kid.

[James Arryn]

Ok. Firstly being breast fed has not a thing to do with a child growing strong or being weak in the way that Sweetrobin is weak, it has to do with genetics. Jon Arryn could be quite massive and yet either have a poor genetic strain or a poor "seed" production so no matter how many times he "fertilized" any Woman's Ova; it either ended in stillbirths or miscarriages, OR a Sweetrobin.

To be clear, Jon Arryn's size was not raised in correlation to his fertility, but with regards to the disparity between his appearance and SR's appearance that people are citing as a means of saying SR is not his child.

[James Arryn]

Being breast fed makes babies stronger not weaker, so does exercise.

Babies, yes. But I think our digestive variety as we grow older actually makes our systems more rigorous. Could be wrong. But the exercise point is exactly what I was saying...he's coddled and swaddled and as a result, weak.

Someone pointed out the premature birth, and that is also a reasonable factor.